Pokémon Corner: Crystal Version

[Luminous Warrior]

Me neither. They say it's his hair, but really? Is that it? Because, I don't see it.

 

[Seacliff]

I think it was this picture that kickstarted the Meme.

Spoiler

 

[captainproton]

If you do that, though, you can say anything looks like Trump.  Vegetables, pastries, Volkswagens...

 

[Chaos Avian]

Well, my mind has been blown lol

 

[captainproton]

Fffffffffffffffuuuuuuhhhhh....  

 

[Tai_MT]

It is really difficult to watch a video in which a guy meanders and stalls and dinks around for 44 minutes...  Dude could've summarized it in like 30 seconds...

 

[captainproton]

I don't think it could have been summarized *that* quickly, as there was a lot of material covered, but it would have worked better as a series of videos.  (It also would have made business sense, too, as that would have resulted in more clicks, and thus, more money.)


For what it's worth, the reasoning is sound.  I don't, however, believe it will be the *last* pokemon game.  There's too much money left tto be made here.  Maybe there will be a series "reboot", or maybe they'll just focus on an unconnected storyline.  It would ve interesting to play a game set in AZ's war, or the war in which Surge fought.  You could even go back to basics, with a kid trying to be The Very Best, and not involving the pantheon of pokegods at all.  Those pokegods, though, could still be catchable in instances like ORAS' mirage spots.  Yknow.  For funzies.  


There doesn't always have to be this escalation of epicness so long as the game is fun to play and the story is solid.

 

[Tai_MT]

Well, in about 30 seconds, all he would've had to say is "Everyone knows Sun and Moon are about Alchemy.  These are all the religions and belief systems in history and alchemy that refer to the sun and the moon, most of it has to do with life, death, and rebirth, and thus, we get the franchise being rebooted from "rebirth".


So much of the video was him repeating himself, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again while also meandering around, not connecting any of his ideas (or even presenting it in a way in which the ideas were connected logically so he didn't have to keep saying "add it to the cork board" like an idiot).  Then you just had the random dinking around which had little to do with anything at all...  You also had all these REALLY unconnected ideas just being thrown into the theory because... "hey, it's kind of similar!".  Nevermind that a lot of cultures and religions around the world use a lot of the same imagery and themes (like the sun and moon, or a trio of Gods... or four Gods...  Heck, China or Japan has the "four Gods" thing with the turtle, the lion, the dragon, and the phoenix.  Oh hey look, they phoenix is for rebirth... and there's a lion there... and one of these Gods is supposed to be evil and stand for death and destruction... as well as one that stands for the earth and...  hmmm... noticing a pattern here? ha ha), so it's hard to believe it's little more than a "coincidence", especially given the way Pokémon has always been and probably always will be (no deeper than the kiddie pool).


I seriously doubt we'd even get a "reboot".  Especially since every single game IS a reboot.  You're a new kid in a new region with new Pokémon doing the same thing you've done every other game.  Each new game is a reboot.  Unless you (or the guys who made the video) mean they'd be remaking red/blue/green/yellow... in which case... we already had that once...  Leaf Green, Fire Red... ORAS... HGSS...  Another few years, we'll prolly get remakes of BW and B2W2 as well.


I mean, sure, the information is interesting, but I seriously doubt anyone at Nintendo did that kind of research on anything.  Or even did a lot of research on Soleo (or however you spell it or whatever it is) for the "typing".  Their research probably went no deeper than "Hey, Alchemy is kind of interesting, what can we do for Legendaries?" then they came across the basics of the lion eating the sun and it stood for the purifying of metals... so... it's a Steel type.  And since Legendaries so commonly have psychic as a type... it's a Psychic type.


It's fun to speculate, but I think people are giving Nintendo too much credit.  I mean, they made a Pokémon that literally looks like the sun... into a Rock type.  "Solrock" and Lunatone...  both Psychic Rocks... one isn't fire...  strange typings are also fairly common among their Pokémon.  As well as repeats.  But, I'm sure they do get a kick out of all the fans thinking about it way harder than they do and coming up with theories.

 

[Chaos Avian]

I think part of the video's gimmick was to be round about and as Toby put it, "Off his meds". The ramblings of a crazy man was added in for humour's sake I believe (I'm subscribed to Gnoggin/ Lockstin). A structured explanation and straight forward explanation I agree would work fine, even releasing them as parts, but I honestly believe that half of it was 'potential' entertainment for the viewers, especially with the over speculation.

It's fun to speculate, but I think people are giving Nintendo too much credit. 

^ I agree, game companies do plan ahead but it's insane at how much fans theory and speculate. With the Five Nights at Freddie's, I honesty think the fan base put together Toby's story for him to a large extend.

 

[captainproton]

Thing is, while I don't think the theory is completely accurate or that the devs went as deep into things as the guy said, but GF does do their research.  Like a lot of things, it may not show if you're not looking, but it's there.  Sometimes it's in things as simple as how pokemon evolve.   

 

[Seacliff]

^ I agree, game companies do plan ahead but it's insane at how much fans theory and speculate. With the Five Nights at Freddie's, I honesty think the fan base put together Toby's story for him to a large extend.

I agree, some speculation is fun, but it's obvious when it goes to far.


However It's hard to deny that the current creators of Pokemon are trying to lead up to something through the 6th gen games, though:


-Project Azoth was mentioned in ORAS, and is apparently the name of the civilization that created Magearna. Which may or may not have something to do with the creation of Pokeballs themselves.


-Zygarde arguably has more attention in Sun/Moon than XY, but it's hard to say if it's because of fan demand or not. We have yet to see 100% in the anime outside of the XYZ opening.


-Speaking of the anime, it's still hard to say if Ash/Greninja is for the sake of the anime or not, but the crystals on the Japanese logos are obviously related to something. Given that Mega symbols and reversion symbols were on the X/Y and ORAS Japanese logos respectively and the official artwork for the main characters wears a bracelet with the same shard.


-All the mentions to Alchemy, at least in the case of gen 7 alone, are also hard to deny. At the very least we can say for sure that Litten's brimstone symbol was intentional and Gnoggins previous video on Solgaleo seems pretty spot on.


I'm not trying to overhype anything. But if I had to make a list of things I'm pretty sure will be addressed in Sun/Moon or any sub-media based around 7th gen, this is it.

 

[Tai_MT]

I, for one, would love to see a much deeper storyline and lore in the Pokémon games.  It's just...  Gamefreak and Nintendo don't really have a very good track record with that.  So... I'm not really holding my breath on the subject.


I mean, we had a storyline where the badguys were PETA telling us we were mean for making Pokémon fight each other...  And... it doesn't go any deeper than about 3 gyms into the game, you discover that they don't actually care about whether or not Pokémon fight each other, they're trying to get everyone to release their Pokémon so they're the only ones who use them (which makes little sense since Pokeballs are manufactured absolutely freakin' everywhere and it wouldn't be difficult to capture new ones again).  I mean, there was potential for some really cool philosophical and moral stuff there.  But, it went no further than "they're hypocrites lying to take over the world".


So, even if we got all this Alchemy stuff...  I can't help but feel that it's simply set dressing for the new region.  Kind of like all the Braille stuff for Ruby and Sapphire and all the Unknown stuff for Gold and Silver.


I can't imagine it being anything more than simple set-dressing and a design choice where they do very little (if anything) with it at all.

 

[captainproton]

Not to piss anyone off, but Plasma's hypocrisy could also be seen as a commentary on PETA's incredibly high euthanasia rate at their shelters.


And was the art showing the connection between the starters and rockpuppy and alchemical symbols official?  Or was it fan-made? 

 

[Tai_MT]

I had no problem with the hypocrisy itself.  After all, they're the villains.  What I had a problem with is that it wasn't a twist that came near the end of the game.  The game didn't build it all up like maybe you were a bad person for fighting with Pokémon and such.  It didn't try to make the player question whether or not what they were doing was right it.  It set out, really freakin' early, to show that Plasma was full of hypocrites and all they had was rhetoric.  I'd have liked that to play out more, to have it influence the world more, to do more with it.  I mean, we knew they were the badguys, but the game doesn't even try to make you take their message seriously at all.  Even worse, their rhetoric was never even answered or resolved.  The problem remained of "Are we doing bad things here?".  I mean, N trusts you 'cause your Pokémon trust you and say nice things about you...  But...  it doesn't really feel all that genuine.  You never really get a sense of why Pokémon themselves love to battle to exhaustion against each other, especially just for you.


It's all kind of just hand-waved away like "oh, well, the guys who had the really valid points were mean people, so their points are suddenly invalid".


That's why I don't have a lot of faith in a deeper story with the new versions.  Even when they've got an interesting concept, they don't really do anything with it.

 

[captainproton]

My two favorite villain teams were Rocket and Flare, who were sort of on opposite ends of the villain spectrum.


Rocket were card carrying bad guys who wanted money and power.  Simple, neat, and totally understandable.  Flare were hipster Nazis who wanted to eradicate everyone they disapproved of.  Scary as balls.  


And another bit of Fridge Brilliance?  The device invented by Lysandre, aka Ginger Wolverine Hitler, is called the Holo-Caster.   

 

[Seacliff]

Warning. Rant Ahead about something that's been on my mind for years now. Proceed at your own risk.


Personally, while I understand the appeal with Team Flare, I felt they were there... just to be there.


The only time story really comes into play in X/Y was between the 7th and 8th gym. However, every Flare encounter before that felt like filler. None of the places you see them have any relevance to the greater plot, making it feel like they were only filling out a checklist of things to make them look evil and to match the other teams. Team Rocket gets away with this because they are the Pokemon equivalent of the mafia, they're ultimate goal is likely destruction and money. However, Team Flare was created for a single, unified goal, making all of these random crimes nonsensical. Isn't their goal to recruit members to follow their standards so they won't be destroyed with the rest of world? How is committing a series of unorganized crimes helping that?


I can justify most of the encounters with Magma/Aqua, Galactic, and Plasma because their events made more sense when you look at the bigger picture (Not so much with Galactic, but they tried). But why was Team Flare in a cave, was it because you first encounter Team Rocket in one as well? Why were they trying to take energy from the Power Plant, was it because Team Galactic did that as well? Why where they in a Pokeball factory when they they have a legendary Pokemon and plan to kill all Pokemon anyways? Why were they put so much resources into abusing an Abomasnow? I get they still need money and all, but other Teams didn't need that excuse. It ultimately felt like they were going with the motions.


Granted, I give XY a lot of flack, probably more than it deserves. I keep giving vibes I don't like the games, but it probably has my favorite expansion of the Pokedex. I hope they have a more organized team with more realized goals in Sun/Moon.

 

[Tai_MT]

@Seacliff If it makes you feel any better, I've yet to even beat the Elite Four in Pokémon X.  They're just such boring games...  I've got 4 Pokémon at level 100 and nothing to really do aside from filling in my Regional Dex (which I got the last of Central Dex today, I guess I get to work on Coastal next...).  I mean, there is literally no reason for me to go fight the elite four... or even try to tackle Victory Road because there's nothing on that path that I can't obtain elsewhere in the game.  The gyms haven't offered a challenge since the first gym and I haven't even used my starter since before the first gym because it was always my highest level Pokémon and thus, never in front.


There just isn't a whole lot to do in X and Y.  I've been overpowered since gym 1 and that's just from playing how I normally play (stay on a route until I've caught everything on it, fight everything that isn't what I'm catching for xp, and then move to the next route).  I've caught every Pokémon I didn't have and even started catching ones I didn't want to have to evolve, because... hey... much easier to catch them than level them up at this point.


To be honest, I didn't even like Black and White or their sequels that much...  The last Pokémon game I had fun in was Diamond/Pearl/Platinum.  I'm prolly in the minority on that though.


I'm hoping Sun and Moon are fantastic and reignite my interest in the series.  Otherwise... I think I'm out after these games.

 

[AwesomeCool]

@Tai_MT - X and Y are stupidly easy due to the exp share system.  It makes all of your pokemon overleveled with no grind. I shouldn't be fighting gym leaders with a whole party 3-5 levels higher than his/her highest with no grinding at all.


...and even without it your main pokemon are overleveled. This never happened happen in gen 1 or 2 (started in gen 3 I think) and I couldn't even beat the elite four with my main's in the second game (a situation where the game made me have to rethink my strategy besides level up more).


I also found Diamond and Pearl the last fun one till x and y (but that was more for the dress up for me).


My favorite was the second generation and I found every generation after that kept getting easier and having less plot.  Heck, the rival character is suppose to be weaker than you (and is) these days (and isn't even a rival to top it off, but more of a friend like character that looks up to you).  


Has there ever been a trainer that has pokemon even as tough as red did in the second generation?

 

[Seacliff]

...and even without it your main pokemon are overleveled. This never happened happen in gen 1 or 2 (started in gen 3 I think) and I couldn't even beat the elite four with my main's in the second game (a situation where the game made me have to rethink my strategy besides level up more).

Even then, Gen 1 and 2 were still extremely easy. In my recent play through of a Japanese copy of Pokemon Red I tackled the Elite four with only four Pokemon. The highest being on level 50. For reference Blue's starter is on Level 65. And yet I took out almost every Pokemon in just one or two hits.

Has there ever been a trainer that has pokemon even as tough as red did in the second generation?

Fighting Red in Black2/White2 is pretty tough.


Hell, every major league at the Pokemon World Tournament was brutal.


@Tai_MTI've known a lot of fans of D/P/P actually, since teenagers a few years younger then me are likely to grow up with that generation. I like them as well, but mostly just Platinum, the first two were a bit of a buggy mess for me. It probably has one of the best region layouts.


I personally feel like I'm in to minority of Black/White fans. I loved the soundtrack, atmosphere, rivals, and MOST of the Pokemon. There was actual difficulty in the sequels, especially since you have difficulty options in the menu. And there was so much more content in the B2/W2's Post game compared to XY.

 

[captainproton]

As far as XY goes, the story was a little lacking, but that's because, I think, they were focusing more on thenew mechanics and graphics and all the other goodies.  A Pokemon Z would have, imho, been a great way to take those now-established and polished technical goodies and put them into a good, in-depth story.  Surely, the aftermath of Flare's shenanigans would have been a great backdrop for a new Kalos adventure.  


 As for the EXP Share, well...you can turn it off.  It's a deliberate easy mode for players who want to level up a team without spending gazillions of hours training each one.  The exp mechanics in gen 5 were a nightmare.  


And just for fun: one of the skits from this year's cosplacon:


https://youtu.be/pz5geH6fYBs