Pokémon Corner: Crystal Version

captainproton · Jul 2, 2016

Isn't Delibird a penguin, with a Santa Claus motif?

And what's this Dark dog you keep talking about? Mightyena? Cuz it's pretty obviously a hyena.

I do agree that there aren't enough moves for certain types, though those same types are usually the least prolific. (Ice, fairy, steel...).

But there are still clear conceptual differences between the likes of the Dewgong, Cloyster, and Lapras. Even if the normal movepool is similar, with creative tm use and egg moves, they can really throw an opponent for a loop.

amaSenpai · Jul 2, 2016

I believe the dark-dog they are talking about is the Houndoom line.

Tai_MT · Jul 2, 2016

Ah, yes, Delibird is. I had forgotten that thing that is a penguin yet looks nothing like a penguin and also flies... is a penguin. So, I guess you've got two Penguins... one of which actually is a penguin, but isn't ice... and one of which looks like a penguin, is ice, but isn't actually anything like a penguin. Still seems really weird to me to not actually have something that looks and seems like a real penguin... be an ice type.

I was referring to Poochyena... Which actually looks and acts more like a dog than a Hyena... and Mightyena... which again... looks and acts more like a dog than a hyena... But... still a canine either way... Especially in terms of the lore of Pokémon where it's treated like a pet dog. But, I mean... the first evolution of it does have "Pooch" in it... which is slang for a dog. So, I'm guessing the "yena" is just kind of there... Hyena in name only maybe? No clue. But, the dex entry certainly doesn't say anything about scavenging... or yipping in a way that sounds like laughter... or living in savannah type areas... So... I'm just going to assume "Hyena in name only". Which means... just another dog.

With the ice types, they don't necessarily need them to create more ice moves... they just need to diversify who gets what much better so that each mon PLAYS DIFFERENTLY at the very least and we aren't all just running around with like Sheer Cold, Blizzard, and Ice Beam... or even Aurora Beam... When they play functionally the same, it means it doesn't really matter which one is in your party.

You could probably argue for the egg moves and TMs and such... But, competitive battling, for me, isn't valid for Pokémon diversity. Every Pokémon can learn all different egg moves and all different TM moves and they all have different stat arrangements...

And let's be honest here, you aren't going to get egg moves or use a bunch of TMs on Pokémon for the main game. The Battle Tower equivalent... maybe. Competitive battling, definitely. The diversity in those places is in stat placement (like 90%), movesets, and typing. Judging by those metrics... it doesn't matter what the Pokémon are or what they look like, so long as they're useful against human players. I'm more talking about diversity for the main game, interesting concepts for the main game. For the players who don't want to spend time grinding for competitive, and just want to play the main game, enjoy it, collect the rest of the mons, and go about their day... there's a very large chunk of "plays exactly the same as everything else in this type" Pokémon. There's also a very large chunk of "just another X" Pokémon. While I love cats, I am indeed getting tired of every single breed of cat being a new Pokémon species.

My issue is that... it all looks and feels very lazy... very "phoned in". Another dog without an interesting concept behind it (I find the "hell hound" approach of Houndour and Houndoom interesting and very different from the norm of dogs... I find entei, suicune, and raikou very interesting and different from the norm of the dogs...) is "just another dog" to me. The same with the flying types. Skarmory is interesting in that it's a Steel/Bird type that looks like a freakin' metal bird. That Fire/Flying bird thing in X and Y was interesting because it wasn't "just another bird". Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Ho-oh, Lugia... all interesting concepts on birds...

I just want something more than "it's a repeat of Pokémon we've already done, but it looks different than the last ones". That, and "I looked around the office and turned something on my desk into a Pokémon because I didn't have any more ideas".

I mean... crap... where's the creative team that came up with Stantler? You know, the Pokémon that is literally a joke because it's supposed to be a "deer scare"? It's an animal based upon an inanimate object, which is also the animal it's meant to scare? Where is THAT creativity? Where is that interesting concept of a Pokémon in the last few generations or even in what we've seen of Sun and Moon? I want that level of creativity in my new Pokémon.

But, I'm kind of weird.

Luminous Warrior · Jul 2, 2016

I agree with you on the fact that I wish that there were more creatively designed Pokemon out there. I like the designs of most of the interchangeable Pokemon, but I really think that they should either stop making them all exactly the same or just stop making them altogether. XY did them the best in my opinion, making the Route 1 Normal-type evolve into a Ground-type and the Regional Bird a Fire-type. And it looks like that they may have learned this lesson, because it turns out that the awesome electro-beetle is Grubbin's final form, barring a Mega.

But at the same time, I actually like a lot of the Pokemon that you claim are uncreative. One of my favorite Pokemon is Chandelure, which, yeah, I could come up with a better Pokemon design than a chandelier. But at the same time, the way they executed Chandelure, and it's evolutions, made them incredibly memorable to me. I like Klefki, and a possessed sword is a concept I've wanted for years. Additionally, I think you should read this. It's an explanation for a Pokemon that I always thought had the absolute weirdest design, until I knew where it came from. So, I personally wouldn't jump too quickly to dislike a Pokemon just because it looks uncreative. We don't know the processes behind a Pokemon's design. Maybe they were left on a very tight schedule, and so they had to cut some corners while designing a few of them. Maybe these weird Pokemon designs have some story behind them that we don't know. Maybe they're based off of Japanese culture or obscure legends that people in the West have never heard of. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to hate a design, I just think that we should try thinking about it from the designer's perspective. I once tried to create my own Generation of Pokemon, 100 Pokemon designs to be exact, and by the end of it I ended up with some really bad ideas. There were a few I was pretty proud of, sure, but I ended up stuck with some designs that were total crap.

Also, in order to lighten the mood a bit, I've taken it upon myself to find some fanmade Pokemon designs. Some are pretty cool, some are just hilarious, and all of them are, if not top quality, at least better than Voltorb. They're all off of Deviantart, so if you like them I suggest looking at the rest of that creator's Pokemon designs.

Ramiro · Jul 2, 2016

Hey, about "it's another Normal flying" you took that with Talonflame on gen 6 also?

Yes Pikipek is flying/normal for now (wich is common) but It CAN evolve into flying/steel or flying/grass or glying/anything.

Don't dismiss them because it starts as a normal type, to not give a fire type early in game making the fire starter "useless"...

I don't like Our always hated ice cream cone, but I loved honedge, and I loved a sword like pokemon, Lampert is really cool too for me.

We would need a dolphin pokemon, And I want one too, serously, now it's the chance.

Well we were close yo a mosquito pokemon too, cutiefly is a fly, close enougth.

Rockruff (Iwanko's english name) it's a dog, but its not normal, it's rock.

The dragon granpa is original, wich dragon in pokemon was a granpa before ? How many times did you hear about one?

While there are no dragon/fire types (wich is a LIE, mega charizard X is one! So yes, charizard is oficially a fire breathing dragon now

) Almost all of them learn flamethrower.

Also the dragon type was meant to be the "most powerfull type" in pokemon, on the first generation, as generations goes on and on, they needed to make it an standard type for competitive play.

Yes Bruxfish is horrible, it's based on a real fish, and it's horrible too!

Ironically said fish is the national hawaian fish, mind you.

Bruxfish if it has good stats it will be used on competitive play, the ability to ignore priority moves is really good, it's a mega-sableye killer.

Yes togedemaru is yet another pikachu, or a sonichu, or a ferrothornchu, I still love it because it looks cute.

Tapu Koko is also really cool.

I won't say than those designs are nice, but "original" in pokemon is almost nothing, they will have almost 800 monsters now, and aside from nidoran all are really different and you can identify one from the other.

That's quite a feat.

Yes Togedemaru is pikachu 7.0, but you can put them aside, and both feel different.

Tai_MT · Jul 2, 2016

Creatively designed is really all I'm asking for. Something interesting to play around with. I liked the most Pokémon in X and Y as a good chunk of them felt interesting and neat... And I was happy to see a Fire/Flying type at the beginning instead of "just another bird". I was also happy with the possessed sword because they did some fun stuff with it by having the Stance Change thing on the final evolution of it and giving it a fairly wide variety of moves to choose from (I even had a hard time deciding what to keep as I made my way along in the game). So, while it is an inanimate object that's used in pretty much every single RPG game ever, usually as an enemy... I liked what they did with it to make it feel interesting.

But, I mean, I had no problems with Wingull in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald either, 'cause while it was a starter bird, it was a water flying, which felt pretty interesting to me in those games (even though they were my least favorite). X and Y also for me had the most interesting starters (I think for the first time ever, we had starters who didn't have an advantage on a single starter, but on both of them if they were fully evolved? THAT was pretty cool in my opinion).

As for the Litwick line... It just doesn't really interest me... I mean, okay, the typing is cool. Ghost/Fire, right? Pretty neat. But, I had trouble using what amounted to a candle. I had trouble imagining it as anything worth a second glance when you could blow it out with an errant breeze. A possessed tree? Okay, I'm on board. A possessed candle/chandelier? I have difficulty accepting it as "interesting" or even "unique". That's more a problem of presentation for me than anything though. If they'd had a "will o wisp" Pokemon that was fire/ghost... I'd have probably thrown it in my party.

I like the Pokémon that come from actual lore or other cultures because they feel more interesting since they've already got all this real world backstory associated with them. Like that weird Pokémon in RSE that had two heads... and it turns out it's a kind of weird demon thing from Japanese lore... Like... it looks terrible, but that lore makes it pretty freakin' cool. Or, a Stantler, as I mentioned before... Like... I come from a small farming community, so I got the joke immediately when I saw it (the Pokémon basically being a deer scare... the horns look like eyes, so deer would keep away from it, being afraid... etcetera), but I thought it was pretty funny as well as interesting that whomever designed the thing in Japan or whatever had such a unique sense of humor. It'd be like if someone turned a Scarecrow... into an actual crow... that looks like a Scarecrow. Or maybe I'm the only one who got a laugh out of it, I don't know.

I also like that we have the Western version of the "Phoenix" as well as the Eastern version as Pokémon (Moltres and Ho-oh). I find that kind of cool and interesting. I just have trouble seeing a thing like a snowflake or an icecream cone and going, "Yeah, there's gotta be some rich lore, interesting stories, or clever jokes in there somewhere!". Those pokemon kind of feel like some kids won a "design a pokemon" contest and got their pokemon featured in the games as the prize. Obviously some people enjoy them... But, I'd have liked them more if they'd done something fun or interesting or unique with them. I was honestly surprised the snowflake thing didn't evolve into a snowman. I was also honestly surprised the icecream cone thing didn't have multiple forms for different colors of icecream...

But, I do tire of the repetitive pokemon lines of dogs, cats, Pikachu clones, normal/flying birds, and Pokémon that are just everyday objects with no lore or interesting mechanics...

While the new electric beetle thing is pretty cool... The square caterpillar thing is really... well... stupid looking in my opinion. It looks... lazy? Like someone took a one of those cars that looks like a box with wheels (scion, I think they're called?) and simply imagined it as a bug

Maybe if they'd had a Beetle Pokémon that looked like a VW Bug... I'd have gotten a laugh out of it at the very least.

But, I am weird.

Lake · Jul 3, 2016

It's been a long time since I played pokemon games and watched the anime..

I've totally become a newbie once again to the pokemon world.

In the pokemon games I only played till X&Y, but on the anime I watched only till black & white.

Seacliff · Jul 7, 2016

Quick Update. Pokemon GO is now available for a lot of areas.

AwesomeCool · Jul 7, 2016

@Seacliff - Disappointed in my areas offerings.

Weedle, Oddish and Drowzy is pretty much it...

Seacliff · Jul 7, 2016

AwesomeCool said:
@Seacliff - Disappointed in my areas offerings.

Weedle, Oddish and Drowzy is pretty much it...

My town is basically route 1. We have lots of Pidgey and Rattata.

Thankfully, between an internship in one city and collage testing in another, I'll be moving around enough to test out different areas. Sadly, I won't be able to walk around them that much. This app wasn't designed for people like me in mind, but I'll try to make the most of it.

slimmmeiske2 · Jul 7, 2016

I don't have Pokémon GO, but a coworker does and apparently there was a Pidgey on me yesterday xD

Ramiro · Jul 7, 2016

Pokemon GO is not available on Argentina, trying to install it even bans your account.

... The good news is that I don't have a phone with Android 4.4 anyway...

AwesomeCool · Jul 7, 2016

@Seacliff - It is kind of annoying that I can only see those three for such a big area. I jogged across the town (5+ miles) and saw basically only those three (saw an area with a rattata eventually at least).

Seems like you have to travel a very long distance and often to get any variety (which is pretty disappointing unless you like to travel the world).

Also, I am guessing only Kanto Pokemon so far? If they added the other regions into this it could fix the problem.

Tai_MT · Jul 7, 2016

AwesomeCool said:
@Seacliff - It is kind of annoying that I can only see those three for such a big area. I jogged across the town (5+ miles) and saw basically only those three (saw an area with a rattata eventually at least).

Seems like you have to travel a very long distance and often to get any variety (which is pretty disappointing unless you like to travel the world).

Also, I am guessing only Kanto Pokemon so far? If they added the other regions into this it could fix the problem.

That was kind of my guess for what Pokémon GO was going to be like. It was one of the reasons I wasn't excited about it. I was like, "Essentially, you'll need to travel the world to collect anything worth having, you'll have to do it often to keep collecting anything worth having, and very few people will ever collect much of anything except 3 or 4 Pokémon."

Hopefully it gets better for you folks interested in it. I'm just not really sure it will.

Seacliff · Jul 8, 2016

AwesomeCool said:
@Seacliff - It is kind of annoying that I can only see those three for such a big area. I jogged across the town (5+ miles) and saw basically only those three (saw an area with a rattata eventually at least).

Seems like you have to travel a very long distance and often to get any variety (which is pretty disappointing unless you like to travel the world).

Also, I am guessing only Kanto Pokemon so far? If they added the other regions into this it could fix the problem.

I caught eight different species by just standing in one place, so I guess it varies from where you live.

They said at E3 that they'll update pokemon later on. I'm fine with that because it would be a bit overwhelming to start out with 720 Pokemon. 151 is enough to start out an ambitious project like this.

amaSenpai · Jul 8, 2016

I just got to download it!

My first capture was a Meowth in my house, so I'll try to see what else I can find.

Luminous Warrior · Jul 8, 2016

New Pokemon revealed. And this one looks pretty awesome. Cool design, unique type, and an awesome ability. I think this one's going in my team for sure. Unless, of course, they reveal a Pokemon that tops this one (pleasebeaghostfairypokemonplease).

Chaos Avian · Jul 8, 2016

The meta game has changed. It's done. No one is safe, everyone's catching a Toxic. Gengar, Heatran, Dialga. Getting. That. Work xD

captainproton · Jul 9, 2016

I like the concept of Salandit, but I can see this thing being OPAF, unless they nerf it with bad stats to keep things balanced. True, we've had moves like Gravity and Mind Reader which negated certain types' immunities, but those were moves, and you had to make sure your pokemon knew them ahead of time, and had to use a turn to set them up. This could really break the metagame, and even make the standard game a bit too easy.

Speaking of types and nerfs/buffs, I do really hope that they tweak the type balancing to give Rock, Ice, Grass, etc, more of a chance. Like, I still don't know why Grass is weak to Flying or why Ice doesn't resist Water. Bananas.

Got Pokemon Go, myself, the other day, and yeah, I think it's only Kanto pokemon for now, since my Golbat has no evolution option.

It's been really fun imagining these as real encounters in real life. I found my Bulbasaur snuffing around my kitchen trash can. That Golbat? Ambushed me in the men's room at work. The part I don't like is that I don't live in a big city, so there's not much going on. I haven't found any gyms in my home town, and only a couple Pokespots. Even the pokemon themselves seem thinner on the ground than they do in the city where I work, which seems counter-intuitive. (You'd think there'd be more in the country, right?)

Luminous Warrior · Jul 9, 2016

Thematically, both Grass being weak to Flying and Ice not resisting Water makes sense. Birds eat seeds, thus Grass is weak to Flying. And for Ice not resisting Water, if you've ever placed a piece of ice underneath running water you know exactly why Ice would be resistant. Ice melts really fast under water. If there's any Type combo that doesn't make sense to you, I can probably figure it out.

Pokémon Corner: Crystal Version

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