Pokemon Corner

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Tai_MT

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I live in a low populated area where very few people owned Pokémon.  On top of which, I was too old to be playing it by the time they started doing stuff like Secret Bases...  So I was the creepy old guy playing games with children.  I seriously hope the base thing doesn't come back...  It was such a pointless and useless feature for me.  Same with the mining stuff in DPP.  Once you got your fossils and enough "saw friends" thing to get that Ghost type from the Odd Keystone...  It was worthless.  I mean, I guess you could lay traps or something... but unless you lived in a big city with a lot of people connecting to you, there was no point to that.

You know what I'd like them to do with the remakes?  Revamp the map so it's not 60% backtracking to finish the game.  I remember that being the most annoying part.  It was so annoying, in fact, that if you saved somewhere along the backtracking and left it for a few months...  When you came back, you had no clue what you were doing or where you were meant to go.  RBE were the only games in the franchise that confused the crap out of me after having not played them for a few months.  Every other series of the games makes it obvious what you're meant to be doing no matter when you come back to the games.  RSE... Yeah... not so much.  Whomever was the map designer and producer of those games probably should have been fired for gross incompetence.

Just sayin'.

Also... I didn't really like how most of the "new mons" that had interesting typings actually weren't all that great or even useful.  I remember being excited for a "Water Bug" type and being disappointed when I finally got it.  So many of the mons from those three games were so underwhelming...
 

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I actually like the secret base... XD
 
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Pern

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I enjoyed the Secret Bases as well. Collecting all the doodads and plushies while exploring friends' bases. You could also battle their latest team there right? It's been so long. The little minigame for making berries, the spinny button presser. I spent a lot of time on that. And contests! Had a whole set of Pokemon only for contests. More reason to play the spinny game. Disappointed that they've replaced it nearly ever generation, oh so happy to have them back.

And if you need to backtrack and forget where you left off, use your number of badges and the internet to give you direction. Might not be much of a suggestion now since back then the internet wasn't as helpful. The cities all had something interesting about them. A hotspring town, a city up in the trees, one made on the back of Corsola, another a fresh water depression. Seeing these locations are in itself enough reason to backtrack for me. Also don't think a map designer should get canned because you didn't like the layout. I understand the need to vent but that's over the top don't you think.

The Pokemon introduced in Gen 3 were the most memorable to me because they were so unique in typing and design. Tropius? Badass. Armaldo Rock/Bug? Sweet. Might not be the best combos in the world (that massive weakness list) but they put something on the table and were always an option. But I do agree with Surskit. Water/Bug sounded awesome, till it evolved and was just another Bug/Flying :/
 

Tai_MT

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Let me put it to you this way about map design:

I've played pretty much every Metroid game to date (excluding Metroid Prime Hunters because the controls were just so hideous I couldn't even play it).  Metroid itself is about 90% backtracking.  That's one of the main features of the games.  Exploration, backtracking, collecting new stuff to better backtrack with.  I find them great fun, they are among my favorite series of video games ever (with only a single game in the franchise ever making me angry and only a single one of them being "average at best").

Here's where Metroid succeeds and RSE fails in "map design".  In Metroid, no matter how much backtracking you've done and how long you've left it... It's clear what your next objective is or even what you were doing when you left off months (or sometimes years, as I've discovered with the Metroid Prime 1 and 2 games on Hard Mode) ago.  Some of the newer games helpfully tell you what you're supposed to do next, if you aren't sure.  However, the map filling in as you go along also helps quite a bit.  On top of which, much of the backtracking is to areas with things you couldn't access before, so when you step back out into the world, you can easily see why you were there.  In RSE...  Well, nothing exists to help you out.  I suspect that this is the reason Leaf Green and Fire Red (which came out directly after RSE) have the "here's what you did last time!" entries the minute you loaded up your save file.  Obviously the backtracking and getting lost was a huge problem in those games, so they fixed it with the next two games.  After that, they made the backtracking almost non-existent in their games so it was always clear where you were supposed to be going.

RSE...  Well, let's just say that when I picked up my Sapphire Version two months ago to play it and finish it... I had no clue what I was doing and had to go to the internet.  Cue two hours spent on the internet and with my game running down the checklist of things I had done and still needed to do.  I had a Kyogre, but still needed to beat up Team Cliché and had three Gyms left.  I didn't have access to the Team Cliché area and didn't know what I was supposed to do.  I tried to visit one of the Gyms I needed and found I didn't have access to the ocean.  It was frustrating to the Nth degree.  Then, we cue up my Emerald Version that I played shortly afterwards.  I was in the tree city, but couldn't figure out what I was supposed to do.  I couldn't get access to the Gym and I needed the scope thing.  So, I was checking every human being in town to try to figure out who would give me the Scope.  I backtracked to try to find the Scope from a random human being along the way.  I went back to talk to my Professor to see if that's where I get it.  You know what I found out?  You get the scope when you try to bypass the town.  Twenty minutes online solved my dilemma of a "not hinted at" and "not intuitive" problem in Pokémon.  Never before or since has a Pokémon game relied on the player simply giving up out of frustration for not being able to access the Gym and then given you the key the moment you gave up.  Any other time the games have done this, they've told you right away that you need to come back later, or it's been made obvious you need to come back later.  Most of the time, they even tell you what you need to come back with.  RSE?  Yeah, they just expect you to get mad, take 5 steps out of town, and then walk back into town.  Because, you know, poor design dictates this.  Heaven forbid you get the Scope in town by the guy who gives it to you.  Oh no, it has to be programmed in AFTER YOU LEAVE town.  I wouldn't be so angry with it, if it had been "come back after the next town when you get the scope" like with the Silph Scope.  Oh no, it's "oh, what? you walked 5 steps out of town?  Here's the scope you're looking for!  BACK YOU GO!".  If you're going to give it out so close to where I need it, why not BEFORE I need it?  Or, better yet, after I've explored inside the town a bit and found out what I needed?

Seriously, RSE needed a ton of help in the map and director's department.  Someone should have spotted this major issues before release and fixed them.  If I was running the company, I would have fired them both for such gross incompetence.

Also, if you have to go to the internet to figure out where you are and what you're supposed to do...  You've designed the game poorly.  I'm not saying a game should spell out every single detail of what you're supposed to do...  I'm not even saying games that are "Myst" hard are poorly designed (as all the challenges can be figured out within the game itself without having to resort to a guide of any kind).  However, when the best solution to getting lost in RSE is to "look it up online"...  That's when you know the game is poorly programmed.  Basically, if you have to go online to figure out what to do because the game doesn't provide you with the information (or the means to find the information), it's poorly programmed.

Honestly, I'll pick up the new versions of the games anyway (I love all things Pokémon, so why not?).  I am just not looking forward to the absolute mess that was the RSE games.  I'd be very grateful if they removed all the backtracking (like they did in Heart Gold and Soul Silver... a lot of that backtracking was removed).

Also, I'm pretty sure it's illegal for a fishing boat to park on a public resort beach to let you off or to see if you want to go back.  Thanks for making me go this way instead of the normal way a player would go in these games!  Now I get to backtrack two routes I was on after the second badge once I get to the sixth badge!  You know, if I remember.  Or, you know... Care at that point.  Especially when one of the routes is "one way only" and if you mess it up, you get to backtrack to it again!  All for some TMs and not even a Legendary.

Hooray.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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IDK about BW and XY but all pokemon games that I played before that never made clear what to do next, not just RSE...
 

Tai_MT

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Like which ones?  Red/Blue had only the Dead Pokémon Tower and the Guards who wouldn't let you into the city with Silph Co.  If you talked to the guards, they told you they were thirsty.  As a kid, I spent like ten minutes fiddling around before saying "wait, the top floor of the mall had vending machines that sold drinks!  I'll buy a drink for each guard!"  They let me into the town, Team Rocket was mucking up Silph Co, so I saved that...  Then they gave me the Silph Scope to go back to the tower and clean that up.  That was seriously the only "not really clear" part in those games.

We get to Gold and Silver and the only "not really clear" part is when you have to go to the Lake of Rage.  Thankfully, if you use your radio at all, you can figure out when you're meant to go there and stop them.  Plus, most of Gold and Silver is simply "go where you haven't been yet" and they helpfully block off directions you aren't supposed to go just yet.  Like with Sudowoodo?

DPP only gets confusing if you left your game off when the badguys are blowing up the lakes to get the spirits.  If you saved and came back years later, there's no way to know what you're meant to be doing unless you try to go get your final badge.  I believe the guy blocking the road to the final badge mentions something about explosions or something, which prompts you to go check it out.  Beyond that, heaven help you if you saved during that ordeal and didn't play for a year.

BW and XY... all you need to know in those games is "go to the town you haven't been to yet".  Backtracking in either one is not required at all.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I was pretty dumb at playing games when I played up gen 1 and gen 2 so it might be a factor...
 
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Tai_MT

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I played Gen 1 and Gen 2 when I was 12-15 or whatever age I was...  I was in High School.  I played RSE like 3 years after they came out (I bought them just before Fire Red/Leaf Green came out, since I didn't own an Advance until I got a job at 19.  When Gen 1 and Gen 2 didn't confuse me at 12-15, but Gen 3 confused me at 19-21...  You can kind of see where the game has some issues, right?
 

Pern

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Never had any problems losing/finding the plot of a Pokemon game. Its meant for all ages, can't imagine spending literal hours online looking for where I left off, though I've never dropped the game for an extended period smack dab in the middle. It's pretty linear, it has numbered routes and there's only so many places to go/follow/talk to. Time consuming? Sure if you've completely forgotten. I agree there aren't enough hints sometimes for this situation, or log book kind of deal. Being a kid, 6 or 7, and playing through Red I can understand, with the Scope and drink for the guard into Saffron. Gold and Silver maybe, but with the intro of the phone and the professor calling you telling you were to go certainly helped. Didn't have any problems following any Pokemon but maybe I'm a special case. Back then I would rather spend time lost in a virtual pet battler than doing homework or chores, that's for sure.
 

Tai_MT

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Well, since RSE, I've picked up unfinished Pokémon games of mine that I'd left off for years (with a job and social life, it's rather hard to complete every single version sometimes).  Haven't been lost in any of them.  The only ones I've gotten lost in?  RSE.  I had played some of RSE on Emulators before I could afford an Advance to play them on.  I knew some of the journey pretty well (like up until the electric gym).  The journey just didn't interest me that much in RSE, so I kept putting it down and saving it for other times (like family get-togethers, power outages, internet outages, or long trips).  I finished Ruby without issue because I managed to complete it in something like a week.  However, Sapphire and Emerald kept getting put off longer and longer (and remain unfinished to this day).  After having left off on those games for so long, I couldn't remember the journey from Ruby and couldn't even remember what I'd done previous in either Sapphire or Emerald.  It was only at that point I discovered that these three games had some of the worst map design in all of Pokémon history.

At least now I know that I have to go underwater or something to clean out Team Magma/Aqua in Sapphire and in Emerald I just need to get to the coastal towns and pick up Surf or whatever.  Before that, figuring out what to do was an absolute nightmare.

I won't deny that I have bias against RSE because I just wasn't really a fan of the mons (how many freakin' Normal/Flying types do we need?  Or Rattata stand-ins?  Or interesting typings with crappy movepools like Surskit, Lotad, or Nuzleaf?  How many cat/dog types do we need as well?).  I also just wasn't much of a fan of all the traveling across the game either.

However, the only real issue that didn't stem from my bias was when I tried to complete them recently and discovered not only did I not know where I was when I left off...  But, the game doesn't tell you in any way either.  All the NPCs tell you is Flavor Text, and that doesn't really help you when you're looking for your next objective... 
 

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If I stopped playing any game for months, I'd surely forget what I was meant to be doing... Even with NPCs giving hints
 

Tai_MT

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I've never had that problem, ha ha.  Except with RSE.  Though, I would have had that problem with my Hard Mode Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 games if it weren't for the helpful "scans indicate x... go here!" things.
 

Seeaka

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RSE were the only ones I didn't get lost in. (I mean, apart from the crushing linearity of BW and XY)
 

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I have to agree with Seeaka, R/S/E were the ones I never got lost in, I just found the whole region to be memorable and the only one I'd have trouble remembering where to go on a Pokemon game would be D/P/P if I left it for a few months, though I do make a earnest effort to remember the towns and places so getting "lost" isn't an issue. And yeah, I don't think you can count B/W/B2/W2 and X/Y since it was literally a colourful line. Sort of like FF13, but not as unfortunate.

Though one has to wonder if it will be a straight re-hash with some extras (like the Sevii Island in LG/FR), or an actual new entire adventure. If they retained the whole customise your player thing (and improve it ¬_¬) that'd be grand and it'd make sense with the whole contest thing and Blue PokeBlocks will be back, giving us more of an incentive to grow berries (though HG/SS did the BEST job at berry growth. Berry Pot HHNNGGHH YES~ <3) also allowing for Milotic to be less of a hassle to obtain.

In any case I'll just be glad to know Mightyena will actually be worth using now that Dark moves aren't special anymore. Which annoys me to no end because NONE of the Dark type were special in anyway, shape or form! Bite, Crunch, Faint Attack, Thief, Snatch, I mean HELLOOO?? *sigh* Enough rambling for now, just let me Surf on my Swampert to Slateport City so I can buy Secret Power for my Zangoose...
 

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I actually didn't find much of the region to be "memorable".  Sure, they tried to make each town somewhat unique...  But the routes themselves were fairly bland, boring, and too extensive for such bland boringness.  It was just so easy to get lost and not know what to do when I left the game for a while.

Also, why does Pokémon even have Dark Types?  I always assume anything that is "Dark" is basically demonic in some way.  Most of the Dark Types are simply rehashes of already existing Pokémon except they've been changed to the color black, or they've been more stylized to look "devious".
 

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I would assume that Dark types were originally created to foil Psychic types since Psychic's were pretty much game breakers, especially in Gen 1. Thus with the added addition of Steel, tipping of the already broken type chart was further sent into oblivion. Then Fairy type happened and I gave up.
 

Tai_MT

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The problem was... we already had two types that could've foiled Psychic Types quite well.  Just needed to give a boost to Bug Types and remove the stupid "Poison" pairing with the Ghost types in order to put it into balance.

Also, yeah, Fairy Types are pretty freakin' stupid.  It is created just to make Dragon Types weaker?  Why?  Ice Types are fairly common and fairly powerful.  A lot of Dragons even have Flying Type added to them.  So... why does Fairy need to exist again?
 

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or simply just fight a dragon with another dragon...
 

Chaos Avian

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Yeah, I don't know why BUg were insanely weak until Gen 4 (bar Megahorn). Parasect has great physical stats but had no STAB moves to go with it. And I have no idea why Game Freak thought it was a good idea to slap Poison type on almost 50% of the Gen 1 Pokemon, giving Psychic full reign.

And yeah, Dragon is an interesting type. Apart from Steel they have the most resistances (I think) and are only super effective on themselves and neutral to everything else, but Steel. STAB adds the boost and only Ice is super effective outside of Dragon. Jynx is really fast and powerful and Lapras/ Vaporeon were solid bulky choices. Dragon seem intimidating, but they can be quite easy to put down. It's just those base stats and the fact most of them are legendary, the fact that only few of them are pure dragon it gives extra ways to have fun~
 

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yeah, Dragons have high stats since most are either rare or legendary
 
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