Pokemon Corner

[Luminous Warrior]

It's really weird having 80 dex, 30 hours, level 30, and not even at the second gym yet.

Tell me about it. Normally I'm at least halfway through the game by now, but I don't even have a bike yet. And I love it! Also, yeah, the "Stop Having Fun Guys" are annoying. I honestly didn't even care about EVs until I got Y and I can actually see them. Now I do train EVs, but only because the Super Training mini-game is cool, and I'm having fun doing it. I don't do complicated math to find out what EVs are best on what Pokemon, I just do it for fun.

 

[Seacliff]

Only only picky about my IVs if they are below the dirt terrible. EVs I'm a little fussy about but don't spend to much time on, especially when I turn my EXP share on.

Also, is anyone else addicted to wounder trade?

 

[orochii]

Also, is anyone else addicted to wounder trade?

- + + -,

OZ

 

[Harmill]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys

That's what I mean.  Pokémon is one of those games that has a TON of these people in them, and they are absolutely obsessed with these things.  There's nothing wrong with catching any random mon and training it.  It's when we get into discussions about "competitive play" that these guys come out of the woodwork and make me facestairs at every opportunity.  It's a video game, it's for fun.  Fun should not be massive grind coupled with algebra.  If you find these things fun...  It only takes a single job in the real world to figure out why these things are NOT fun.  Especially when 8 hours of grind a day is what you do to make a living.  Work =/= fun.

Charizard does take 25% resistance from Grass moves.  But, let's suppose that Charizard is NOT level 100 for a moment.  Let's also suppose that Charizard has below average Special Defense  We'll just say he has a neutral nature.  So, something around... what... 170-190 Sp.Def.?  Maybe?  If I remember right?  Now, a Big Root doesn't increase damage done...  But with STAB and Overgrow... it does alleviate that x4 resistance as well as do some decent damage if Torterra has a high Sp.Atk. (which mine does, along with a high Defense).  Flying moves are nearly nullified by the simple High Defense of a Torterra.  Fire moves also don't get the x2 bonus since Torterra is half ground.  So, we have a Charizard who is doing normal damage to Torterra without a "It's Super Effective" message unless it uses a flying attack, and even then, most of those are nullified by the rather high defense of that starter.

So, Giga Drain with its 70 Base Attack multiplied by 1.5x due to STAB as well as the 1.5x for Overgrow.  Turns the attack into a 140 base damage.  Divided by 4, we're down to what...  35 base damage?  Couple that with low HP and Low Sp.Def. of a Charizard and you can do a surprising amount of damage with an attack, especially with a critical hit.  Does that mean my 90% is accurate?  Gross estimation on my part.  Attack that took a Charizard from nearly full health to fainted.  Do I pretend to know how the mechanics of calculating damage work?  No.  I have no idea.  I just know that while it may not be 90% damage, it's still fairly high, enough that a mon goes from green to fainted on its meter.    I'd also like to mention that the Charizard was only 4 levels above my Torterra.  Did I score a critical hit?  No, I did not.  But my two 1.5x together does take that x4 resistance down to x3 instead.  Does having a low Sp.Def. on that Charizard help as well?  Most likely.  How about having a high Sp.Atk. on my Torterra?  Yeah, probably.  How much does it help?  I have no idea in terms of raw numbers.  I can only say that while it may not have been 90% of the health, it was enough that Charizard went from green to faint.

Also, that's something else that I've found irritating about the "Stop having fun guys" crowd.  The change of "Lightning bruisers" to "sweepers".  Did we really have to change the name for that?  Seriously?  I also never really see people with the "Sweepers", though a lot of guides recommend having at least one.  Maybe that means I don't play online enough (which I likely don't, since nobody really plays for fun online and spends a lot of time EV training and breeding and blah blah blah) so I don't see all these "sweepers".  Most of what I see is tanks, gimmicks, or pseudo-legendaries.  Do I see glass cannons?  Nope.  I don't see many sweepers either.

But, that's just me.  I don't mind playing and learning new things, I just don't like the guys who go massively out of their way to "be the very best, like no one ever was".  Especially since a large number of these people are living off of my tax dollars.  Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

I do love that pokemon is one of the most versatile systems out there for battle.  I like that you can easily think of new ways to use common mons or find ways to make underused mons fairly powerful.  I like that the moves are often fairly diverse enough that you can pretty much choose whatever you want on them.  I also like that there is sometimes some fairly deep strategy elements to the series.  What's even better is that these things only get better with time.

Maybe I'll just spend a ton of time becoming one of the "Stop Having Fun" guys in order to see the kind of mons you're talking about.  Probably couldn't hurt any, at least.  Well.... maybe I'll do that after I get to the second gym.  It's really weird having 80 dex, 30 hours, level 30, and not even at the second gym yet.

I did a quick test using an online Damage Calculator and here are the results:

http://i.imgur.com/rnmW3z8.png

As you can see, even if the Charizard is 30 levels below the Torterra, he will still take around 40% damage tops (unless it's a critical hit). This is not taking Overgrow into account, but the damage percent only drops as I raise Charizard's level to be on par with Torterra so I don't think Overgrow is going to create any drastic changes in the results. I gave Torterra max EVs in Sp Atk while Charizard had 0 EVs in Sp Def. And this image also is a good example of the extreme difference in damage that weaknesses/resistances provide. Giga Drain, which does 25% of its normal damage to Charizard, will do around 40% of Charizard's max health while a Stone Edge, which does 4x its normal damage to Charizard, will do ~400% of his max health! That's a huge difference!

Torterra does take 2x damage from Fire. Ground does not resist Fire so it does not negate his Grass type's weakness to Fire.

Sorry if I'm sounding like one of these "Stop Having Fun" guys. 

As for Wonder Trade, I've only tried it a few times so far. I see it as a great way of getting rid of Pokemon you get through hatching dozens of eggs(rather than just releasing all those Pokemon into the wild). A friend was showing me his boxes full of the same Pokemon as he was hatching several of them in order to hatch one with the nature he wanted. 

 

[Tai_MT]

I did a quick test using an online Damage Calculator and here are the results:

http://i.imgur.com/rnmW3z8.png

As you can see, even if the Charizard is 30 levels below the Torterra, he will still take around 40% damage tops (unless it's a critical hit). This is not taking Overgrow into account, but the damage percent only drops as I raise Charizard's level to be on par with Torterra so I don't think Overgrow is going to create any drastic changes in the results. I gave Torterra max EVs in Sp Atk while Charizard had 0 EVs in Sp Def. And this image also is a good example of the extreme difference in damage that weaknesses/resistances provide. Giga Drain, which does 25% of its normal damage to Charizard, will do around 40% of Charizard's max health while a Stone Edge, which does 4x its normal damage to Charizard, will do ~400% of his max health! That's a huge difference!

Torterra does take 2x damage from Fire. Ground does not resist Fire so it does not negate his Grass type's weakness to Fire.

Sorry if I'm sounding like one of these "Stop Having Fun" guys. 

As for Wonder Trade, I've only tried it a few times so far. I see it as a great way of getting rid of Pokemon you get through hatching dozens of eggs(rather than just releasing all those Pokemon into the wild). A friend was showing me his boxes full of the same Pokemon as he was hatching several of them in order to hatch one with the nature he wanted. 

My particular Torterra:

Level 68

Item:  Big Root

Nature:  Lax

HP: 235

Attack: 177

Defense: 198

Sp.Atk:  136

Sp.Def: 126

Speed: 121

Ability:  Overgrow

I can't tell you what the stats of the Charizard are that I fought, and as this was a while ago, I can't remember exact levels (this was when Diamond and Pearl were the newest ones, and I was playing on the tail end of those games as a year later Platinum came out).  I know the Charizard was 4 levels ABOVE me at the time.  I have no idea what my IVs are or EVs.  Again, this is all I know:  I used Giga Drain while I was in the red and Overgrow was active.  I used it on a Charizard who was partially damaged, but still well into the green (somewhere in the 75-90% range) and it outright killed him.  I also know I didn't get the message "Critical Hit!".

I can simply tell you that it worked and I got a massive chunk of my HP back that helped me finish off the rest of the team.  Without the stats of the enemy Charizard or even knowing what my exact stats were at the time, as well as what EVs and IVs were had by each, it's probably likely we'll never know how something like that was ever pulled off.  It could even simply be that somehow the thing glitched and murdered the Charizard despite the stats.  I have no idea.  I only know that it did what it did and I ended up winning the rest of the fight against my friend because Charizard seemed to be his hardest hitter.

Also, I could've sworn that at some point Ground was resistant to Fire.  Maybe that's just remnants from my old RBY days when pretty much every Ground Type was also Rock type, so I'd erroneously thought that.  Entirely possible.

But, honestly, when you play the games for fun instead of crunching numbers... it's easy to simply just go "who cares?  It works!" when playing the games.  My Torterra slaughtered a Charizard 4 levels above him using Giga Drain.  Crazy, impossible miracle, but it happened.  Winning the fight was enough for me and all the proof I needed.  Does that mean there's probably some slight exaggeration?  Yeah, probably.  Memory isn't an exact science.  Exact details are often lost to the ebb and flow of time.  Though, the shadows of the details remain fairly clear in our memories.  In short, it is what it is and I have no idea why it is though you say it could never be.

As for myself on Wonder Trade...

The few times I've used it, I've found it completely worthless.  I just don't have the same luck you guys have, I think.  I'll trade something that I think is relatively good (even going so far as to EV train it, or teach it a TM) and get vendor trash in return.  Maybe once I get to the point where I find a ditto, I'll have much better luck.

 

[Harmill]

Hehe, dual types can cause a lot of misconceptions as to what Type is weak/strong against another Type. Here's some examples:

- In Gen 1, there was NO pure Rock type pokemon (Onix, Geodude line, Rhyhorn line are all Rock/Ground).  Therefore, it was hard to tell exactly which type of weaknesses/resistances were due to which of the two elements. It took me until Black/White versions to know that Rock is NOT immune to Electric. I thought that was true for the longest time and it was a HOLY **** moment when I realized the truth. Ground is immune to Electric, rock is not. I remember being so confused as to why Aerodactyl was weak to Electric because I thought that the immunity from his Rock type would negate the Electric weakness from his Flying type.

- With the above example, it was somewhat difficult to know if Fire did 0.5x damage to Geodude because of the Rock or Ground type. It's actually because of his Rock type. A pure Ground pokemon like Sandshrew takes normal damage from Fire.

- In Gen 1, there was no pure Ghost type. The Gastly line was Ghost/Poison. Because they were weak to Psychic, I used to think Ghost types were weak to Psychic. Nope - it was because of the Poison type. Psychic does normal damage to a pure Ghost type.

 

[Tai_MT]

And in both examples, it makes no sense.  Rocks conduct no more electricity than ground... but they can be hurt by Electricity.  On top of which, putting fire on just the ground doesn't conduct the fire in any way or even hurt the ground in the slightest, but it's apparently not resistant at all to it.

Sometimes I wonder who makes up the rules for pkmn.

EDIT:  You know what would've been fun or awesome?  If Fairy had been weak to Normal Type attacks.  Or, if some other type was weak to Normal attacks.  It would certainly change up the dynamic of battles quite a bit.  Might even make normal types worth carrying around!

 

[Harmill]

To me, it was a MUST that Fairy be weak to Poison. Poison was only super effective against ONE type (Grass) so it had little offensive strength. When I heard there was a new type, I instantly thought that it HAD to be weak to Poison or else it would have been a waste of an opportunity to rebalance some of the weaker/stronger types. As for being weak to Normal - I think that's kind of the point of Normal. It even says it in its name. It's just...normal. Nothing special about it (other than being weak to only one type and being immune to Ghost). I see it as the generic type and I'm fine with it being that way. I can see why others would wish it had more varied relationships with other Types though. I am quite happy that Clefairy/Clefable have become pure Fairy types though. They were my favourite pokemon when I was a kid and now they gain an immunity to Dragon and can actually get some super effective STAB moves on other types. 

 

[Tai_MT]

The problem with Normal is its weakness is Fighting, it's immune to Ghost, it does half damage to Rock types, and Ghost types take no damage from them either.  It's freakin' annoying how useless Normal Types are in the games, unless you can find a tank or a gimmicky mon to play around with.

I kind of wish I was super effective against SOMETHING.  I don't even care what it is... just... SOMETHING.

Also... Poison types used to be super effective against Bug types...  But, for some odd reason, they changed that -_-" which irritates me a lot.

And why the heck is Fairy Super Effective against Dragon types?  Seriously...  Why not Dark and Psychic types instead?  It's not like we need MORE types that Dragon is weak to (Ice and Dragon are quite enough, considering how common both types have become and how common their attacks have become on most any standard party).  I dunno, I just don't get it.  It's somewhat annoying.

 

[Harmill]

Ha, I didn't even remember that Poison used to be super effective against Bug. Yeah, I don't know why they would have changed that. My guess is that Bug was one of the weakest types in RBY so they "attempted" to buff the Bug type by removing its weakness to Poison and making it super effective against Dark.

I wouldn't say that pure Normal type Pokemon are all useless. Best example is Blissey. I believe Blissey is still a pure Normal type (even though it LOOKS like it could have become pure or at least part Fairy...) and it's one of the best Special Tanks in the game. Normal may not have resistances, but the fact it is weak to only one type is pretty good. I believe Snorlax was one of the stronger tanks in older generations as well (though he's not as good anymore).

I think the weaknesses/resistances/strengths with Fairy weren't designed to make logical sense so much as they were designed to balance the type chart. As I previously explained, Poison was only super effective to Grass, so they appropriately addressed that issue by making it strong against Fairy. Fairy IS super effective to Dark. I think it sort of makes sense to make it immune to Dragon but I think a larger factor is that they tend to make Dragon types quite strong. The Dragon Type itself doesn't seem that special, especially being only strong against itself.  Instead of making weaker Dragon type Pokemon, they are sticking to the idea that Dragon types have generally higher stats and are instead balancing the Type around that. The only type I don't get is Steel. Why is Steel strong against Fairy? I always saw Steel as the ultimate defensive Type. It has a lot of resistances and is even immune to Poison (and therefore Toxic!). I don't think it needed to be super effective against a third type or to gain yet another resistance. 

 

[Tai_MT]

I've honestly never found all that much use in Steel Types.  Not because of the weaknesses/resistances either.  It's just...  Their movesets tend to be so bland and their evolutions so silly...  I mean, I admit that I love Aron and all its evolutions, but mons like that are few and far between.  Even then, it's movepool kind of sucked in the generation it was introduced.  I don't know if it's ever been improved or not either.  It's just one of the more bland typings that could really use a facelift if nothing else.  Heck, I'd settle for some more interesting moves for that group of mons.  Maybe even some interesting new abilities (I, for one, would be in favor of an ability which reflected attacks of an "energy" nature back towards the enemy that used them.  Sort of like using Counter, except it's an ability, and it only works on things like Hyper Beam and other such energy based attacks) wouldn't go amiss.

On top of that, it has the very strange weakness to Fire instead of Water (steel does rust, and many pokemon look made of just straight Iron instead of Steel to begin with).  With most players and NPCs using Fire Types fairly often, it's almost a liability to carry a Steel type with you (even in X and Y where you are given like 3 or 4 Fire Types right off the bat.  Indeed, that's how many I have.  Fennekin, Torchic, Charmander, Fletchling, Litleo...).  It would be interesting to see a Steel type with an ability that basically makes it stronger when hit by fire... or even make it immune to fire.  Maybe to balance that out, you could give it a x4 weakness to its other weaknesses instead.  Or, just make it a type that's already weak to its other weaknesses.  Perhaps it could be a Fire/Steel type?

I dunno, just something to think about.

 

[Seacliff]

I like Tanks, so I tend to have at least one steel or dark type on my team if I can.

Speaking of which, I need some friend safaris... my friend code is:

David

4425-1619-3092

 

[Harmill]

Steel has more attack moves introduced in the past couple of generations. Flash Cannon (80 power, 100 accuracy) is good for special attackers, Iron Head (80 power, 100 accuracy) is good for physical attackers, then there's Steel Wing (chance to raise user's Defense) that's been around since the very beginning. Really, that's pretty  much all you need. One of the things that's good about all the resistances of Steel is that it can safely switch into many different types of attacks and it's immune to Toxic Spikes. Skarmory is one of the best physical walls and has been for a LONG time. Forretress is also a very strong physical wall with access to Rapid Spin, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, and Protect. Basically he's a really good staller as the opponent's HP drops through Toxic or is forced to switch.

And it's funny how you said 

It would be interesting to see a Steel type with an ability that basically makes it stronger when hit by fire... or even make it immune to fire.  Maybe to balance that out, you could give it a x4 weakness to its other weaknesses instead.  Or, just make it a type that's already weak to its other weaknesses.  Perhaps it could be a Fire/Steel type?

Because that's exactly what Heatran is. It's 4x weak to Ground (which is HORRIBLE because Earthquake is one of the most common moves out there...) and it has the Flash Fire ability to become stronger when hit with Fire moves....

@Seacliff: I'll add you!

 

[Seeaka]

My friend code is 1289-8387-9683, and I'll be adding all of youse.

 

[hyde9318]

I personally am not the "Stop Having Fun Guy", but I do like taking some extra time to work with some comp pokemon, just so that I can have some fun with online battling. Problem being is that if you battle online at all, much of the community are hardcore trainers who breed perfect IVs and have perfect EV spreads. If my pokemon die in a couple turns, it takes all the fun out of it for me. But when I spend a little extra time working on EVs and finding a decent nature or two, I suddenly become a match and actually find online battling rather fun. 

And for those of you not caring much for wonder trade, prepare to hate me...

Wonder Trade Reports for October 25, 2013: 6 Not Needed Pokemon, 9 Pokemon for Dex Entries, 2 Average Powered Keeper Pokemon, 1 Shiny, 1 Legendary.... I feel pretty damn good now. BUT, I think I am going to quit while I am ahead. 

(For those of you wondering, it was shiny Bidoof and Articuno)

On a different note, whomever wants to add me, feel free to snatch up my friend code from a few posts back (probably a page back or so). Just let me know that you are adding me so I can add you too.

 

[Lustermx]

I'll add everyone from the last few pages too. My code is 2964-8611-0527.

 

[NPC]

EV training is so simple now with hordes. Trained twenty to max EVs in an hour...

 

[Harmill]

Alright, I've added the following people to my friend list: Tai_MT, Seacliff, Lustermx, and hyde9318.

 

[Nightbane]

Jealous of all of you who have X/Y... Saving up for a 3DS now.

Quick question though, since its on the 3ds does it still save to the game card or now to the system itself? 

Was hoping to borrow my friends 3ds to download the events like Torchic, but Im not sure if I would be able to.

 

[Harmill]

There's an SD card that comes with a 3DS. I think you can choose whether to save your files onto the SD Card or onto the actual game cartridge but I don't recall seeing this prompt myself. I just did a quick a google search though, and it says that there should be an option on where you want to save the data.