Polearms...

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

it really depends on your story... If you're more into the oh-so-mighty hero or too Japanese sengoku era thingy, then yeah swords will be your preferred weapon...


there's no use discussing history if you already have set the timeline of where you base your ideas...


though personally, I'm not fond of spears if ur not mounted (at least for 2D games that are not tactical)...

 

[Omnimental]

I don't know about spears per say, but I do know that staffs actually make pretty awesome weapons because they can be used equally for offence and defence.  They don't do very well against heavier armour (although I'd bet having a nice edged/pointed tip ala spear or halberd would help with that issue).

If you want a niche for your pole-arms, I'd suggest representing their range and defensive capabilities with a boost to evasion.  Hard to hit what you can't get close to.

Honestly, I don't thing pole-arms get nearly enough love from RPGs.  The things you can pull off with them are extraordinary.

 

[Eschaton]

I'm worried that giving spears an evasion bonus might break them.

 

[Kes]

I'm worried that giving spears an evasion bonus might break them.

Hmm, a spear could be very good for evasion/dodging - you use it to trip up the enemy, bit like an ankle swipe, so that (s)he/it misses - in fact you could use something like 'ankle swipe' instead of 'Guard' if you were prepared to tinker with the normal skills.

 

[gvduck10]

a little educational information: "Polearm" is a good category name, but includes weapons beyond spears

For example:

Nodachi (or, No-dachi) - a ridiculously long sword, that samurai used mostly as a spear)

Halberd - a polearm ax with a spear tip, used as a spear, but also defensively (in wide sweeping circles), and for bashing

That aside, spears were typically used against charging infantry (defensively) and to dismount calvary.

Spears are also much harder to aim vs a sword or sweeping ax, but still easier than a bow (RPG archers are godly-skilled!!).

From spear-hunters, Egyptian chariot riders, the mighty Greek Phalanx up through the German Landsknecht and famous Swiss pikemen, spears/polearms have been used extensively in almost all military forces until the industrial gunpowder age finally made them obsolete.

SIMPLE IDEA: Good damage, less accurate, and/or (like Omnimetal points out) better defense!!

TRADITIONAL IDEA: Pierce - it is in fact used in many RPGs and the rationale is solid, attacks or skills ignore enemy defense

ADVANCED IDEA: Spears are designed for certain types of enemies, therefore, do more damage, have better accuracy & ignore defense against certain types of enemies (specifically, mounted enemies, animals, ect.)

 

[CWells]

I would use polearms as something with high counterattack ability. If I'm seeing the weapon right you have a long stick and on the end an axe or some other blade. Maybe I'm confusing them with poleaxes instead. But regardless, I can see something along these lines as providing some maneuverability/counter defenses.

 

[Eschaton]

Pierce is a good idea.  I am worried about all of the nerfs against heavy armor, though.  Heavy armor is weak against magic in my setup.   Wizards are very rare, but its still another nerf.  Heavy armor is also weak against blunt weapons like maces and war hammers.  Spears as another nerf might make players decide that heavy armor is worthless.

There will be no Japanese weapons.

 

[kerbonklin]

I remember there was an MMO for a class that uses Spears or Polearms. The skills had a different damage formula for Slash and Stab animations which were at a 50/50 rate, Spears had more Stab and Polearms had more Slash. Eventually this was replaced by higher-job skills that didn't use this dependency. Then in a future update they got rid of the whole "Slash and Stab being different damages". However Spears had a generally faster attack speed (Normal 5) than Polearms (Slow 6) except a few special event-Polearms (Fast 3), so...everyone used Spears mainly. Polearms generally became useless and cheap economically.

 

[Eschaton]

I remember there was an MMO that that a class that uses Spears or Polearms. The skills had a different damage formula for Slash and Stab animations which were at a 50/50 rate, Spears had more Stab and Polearms had more Slash. Eventually this was replaced by higher-job skills that didn't use this dependency. Then in a future update they got rid of the whole "Slash and Stab being different damages". However Spears had a generally faster attack speed (Normal 5) than Polearms (Slow 6) except a few special event-Polearms (Fast 3), so...everyone used Spears mainly. Polearms generally became useless and cheap economically.

Sounds to me like some developers go to great lengths to make spears a viable option, even if it means holding the laws of physics in abeyance.

Spears aren't fast weapons.  You'd have to be absurdly strong to wield a three-meter-plus pole with a steel, iron, bronze, or flint spike at the end faster than a sword or axe.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

And then Rome fell, and chivalry rose.  Knights were the epitome of badass.  They weren't the spear-wielding conscript rabble, these guys were the heroes leading the charge.  Also, they were apparently legally entitled to have their manly way with your wife and/or daughters.  But that's another horrifying matter, right there.
But, swords, they combine the control of a knife with a good chunk of the reach of a spear.  They aren't as economical as spears, but with training and experience, they were definitely more effective.  Spears are clumsy and inaccurate (dare I say, random?) in comparison.  The sword was the mark of a skilled and accomplished warrior.

Yet another source of glamor for the sword are the samurai.  I don't even need to explain those guys, you all know.

   ^A lot of your points are true for legend... yet outside of reality. Yes, the nobility idealized the sword and knights are famous for it. However, there are hundreds of instances in history where idiot cavalry charging nobility got royally hosed up by base pike-wielding soldiers.

   Look up how Switzerland gained it's freedom from Rome sometime, Up until the age of guns and cars, the high born have viewed mounted combat in the highest esteem, and throughout the ages intelligent leaders have seen through it and won wars on the use of pole-arms. Even the Samurai, steeped in sword culture as they are, utilized spears regularly and actually first became famous partly because of them.

    What made the Samurai famous in the first place and allowed them to ascend into a culture of warrior noblemen from the peasantry that started them was a certain technique where mounted Samurai would charge out in battle armed with Yuma (longbow), harry enemy troops and then retreat behind a line of footmen wielding Yari (Japanese spear). Just as in Rome and England, the noble horsemen then got hosed up by spear wielding peasants. This practice continued in Samurai culture long after they carved out their niche in noble society and adopted the Daisho as their defining weapons.

   You are thinking more on the line of dueling, and less on the scope of actual wartime combat. (which is fine, as most rpgs, both western and eastern, focus more on dueling/small scale than on actual military operations.) And that is where the sword shines brightest, both in the east with tales of great swordsmen such as Miyamoto Musashi and in the west where duels of all kind became overly famous in the middle ages with tourneys held to test the metal of knights and as you've already mentioned, the gladiators of Rome. The problem is that while these duels and small scale conflicts are what gets the 'glamor' and is memorialized and romantacised in literature and art, the true grit and terror of war are largely glossed over. Leaving most spectators with a hazy idea of how such battles work at best. The truth is that bows and pikes generally lead the way in medieval times, and wars were won by the peasantry who wielded them and the generals who utilized them, not the knights who held their noses up and spent their time drinking and dueling and 'glamorizing' the sword.

 

[gvduck10]

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[Eschaton]

Spears will be in the game. Their damage scaling will be linear with a shallow slope until the higher levels when damage suddenly spikes to among the highest damage outputs of the weapon types.

The player will be able to purchase perks that allow spear attacks to trip opponents with legs. Another perk increases damage versus armor (compared to maces that consistently deal damage to heavy armor).

The growth rate for ranks in the skill will be logarithmic; the spear is easy to learn gaining early ranks quickly, but is difficult to master, gaining ranks comparatively slow at higher ranks.

 

[CRogers]

Also, they were apparently legally entitled to have their manly way with your wife and/or daughters.  But that's another horrifying matter, right there.

Just wanted to point out that this is mostly a historical myth (unless you are referring to something I'm unaware of). While it certainly happened that nobles and knights coerced/raped women of lower status, that is the powerful abusing the powerless, not exactly historically or culturally unique. It is unlikely that it was ever a legal, enacted right that someone could do so.

Wikipedia briefly touches on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur

 

[gvduck10]

Just wanted to point out that this is mostly a historical myth (unless you are referring to something I'm unaware of). While it certainly happened that nobles and knights coerced/raped women of lower status, that is the powerful abusing the powerless, not exactly historically or culturally unique. It is unlikely that it was ever a legal, enacted right that someone could do so.

Wikipedia briefly touches on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur

"Right of the First Night" was in fact a real thing, but no record exists of it actually being enforced, especially not regularly. It was most likely used to intimidate the peasantry - since sex and child birth were considered sacred. The movie "Braveheart" also suggests another possible motive, "breeding out" the Scots.

Again, there is little historical evidence that it was ever practiced, and certainly not wide-spread or commonly, but the concept did in fact exist. There is written documentation about it, listed as one of the nobleman's "rights" over his demense.

 

[Eschaton]

"breeding out" the Scots.

So glad that didn't happen.

I wouldn't get to enjoy Scotch.

That, and a chick with a Scottish accent is just...sexy as hell.

 

[Berylstone]

*purses lips in contemplation*

Okay...

Should I bother with them as a weapon category in my project?  There's a reason they're appearances in RPGs are in decline.  They don't really have a niche.  Daggers are for sneak attacks, bows are ranged, axes/maces/greatswords swing slow but hit hard, swords are average.  But spears?

Shrugs.

There's more to it.  I'm using an ABS that uses the weapon's icon in the animation (I'm lazy that way).  Spears' icons aren't much longer than swords' icons; spears won't appear that functionally different from swords.

I think spears are cool.  Their usual advantages are greater melee range and armor-piercing qualities.  Those will be somewhat redundant though if you have bows in your game.  But spears don't need arrows.  

So if your game functions with the need to obtain ammunition for ranged weaponry I think they will still have a place.

 

[gvduck10]

Again, polearms is a much broader category than just spears:

Check out this photo to see what I mean

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=208&um=1&sa=N&biw=1212&bih=603&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=CPjlNxUxqnBTjM:&imgrefurl=http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/medieval-polearms.htm&docid=SEtqk4AT4VBCmM&imgurl=http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/images/new-polearm-thumbs.jpg&w=600&h=317&ei=fj6WUvrnHYm6yAHmroGIDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=511&vpy=165&dur=2153&hovh=163&hovw=309&tx=190&ty=114&page=9&tbnh=134&tbnw=254&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:33,s:200,i:103

Also, great resource for coming up with names!

 

[Berylstone]

Again, polearms is a much broader category than just spears:

That's true and I guess I wasn't thinking broadly enough.

Things like halberds for example are considered polearms I believe and they even have axe-blades attached to them.

 

[Eschaton]

That's why I said "Polearms" instead of just "spears."

 

[hian]

Add elements in your database that represent weapon qualities, such as blunt, piercing and slashing.

Then make enemies with specific weakness to piercing attacks.

Then make polearms with piercing element.

There, problem solved.