Poll on Timed Attacks

[CalebW]

This poll is in reference to the plugin by @SumRndmDde : Time Attacks Clocks + Timed Attacks Action Sequences +Timed Attacks Core

Between these plugins I have the closest way to having a "Legend of the Dragoon" Battle system, however... I wanted to see the communities thoughts. As I can always make a version for my self with the battle system, but I would like to see other's general thought process as to the enjoy ability of the game.

Example of what it looks like:

 

[Romanticist]

I don't "love" it but I don't mind it either. It's more engaging than normal turn-based, that's for sure.

 

[Yougotsomechocolate]

I mean, it makes battles more interactive, but it may get repetitive with the same patterns.

 

[TheoAllen]

Battle with multiple party members is meant to be a tactic (choice matters). When choices are mixed with reflex, it doesn't work well for me. So I voted hate, and also because I have enough of it. If it is for one actor battle, I'm fine with it.

 

[Finnuval]

I vorted 'I'll deal with them" as I am of the same opinion as @TheoAllen for the most part but it's not a deal-breaker for me unless it is done badly and becomes a real pain.

 

[Milennin]

It gets tedious real fast, if your game is combat-heavy and, like, every action requires it.

 

[Palin]

I enjoy mechanics like these if they're balanced and used in moderation. Final Fantasy 8 has some good examples.

That being said, in RPG Maker games, I find them to usually be a hassle. Too many people use them as replacements for "turn based combat" and they really have no connection to the game or characters. I also don't like it when timed attacks are required to deal respectful amounts of damage with basic attacks.

 

[BlackGoldSaw]

I don't hate it. Makes me think of the Paper Mario games and I love those. Though I feel it works because each character has like 3 moves and they feel unique, so you can switch characters whenever you get bored of one and try out a different fighting style.

final Fantasy doesn't have that and I love those too. I think it's all about how the game is structured. I like it in Paper Mario, but wouldn't care for it in Final Fantasy.

 

[Henryetha]

I've been using them in my games "Exorcist's Path" aswell as "Back To the Overworld".
Both times (but especially in Exorcist's Path) they've been well received.

The difference in EP is, that there are only 2 Battlers (Except in the Intro).

You can use them on certain skills only.

The mash enter I use for example only on skills, which have a healing effect, as I thought, it felt "real" mashing enter in order to heal more.
on AoE skills I usually use the arrows which shall indicate "concentration" to cast a magic spell correctly.
On close melee attacks I use that bar which must be hit in the middle, indicating to "hit a weak point" of the enemy.
As for range melee I use the shrunking circle, as ur supposed to "aim" with a bow.

Then again I have certain skills which arent timed attacks.
As in EP the actors may call spirits to help them in battle. Here timed attacks wont make much sense + it would be annoying to waste 100 TP becuz u miss the key input.

I voted love, because I love to play with timed attacks (I find without even rather boring) and have gotten mostly positive feedback.

There has been also made a video of Exorcist's Path, found on my itch page, if you're interested how they look in action.
I just wanna avoid posting it directly - people might think i only post for advertising >_<

 

[Kes]

I hate them. I think anything like this disadvantages a player if they don't have really good reflexes. I also think it militates against the idea of strategic play which often requires time for thought.

 

[Henryetha]

You can adjust the speed, and implement them in fact just for making battles more dynamic.
My reflexes are really slow, so.. if I can play them, most of the other people can too.

Ofc as with anything else, they need to be balanced out.

Also you have all the time to think of a strategy. The timed attack applies only on execution.

 

[TheoAllen]

Also you have all the time to think of a strategy. The timed attack applies only on execution.

Which is my point, strategy and reflex don't work on me. Give me a whole action game or a whole strategy game. I generally don't like the mix of both.

 

[CalebW]

Thank everyone for the amazing feedback, one thing I was going to make sure was setting the circle to 720 so that it had two go arounds for people that has poor reflexes. But also adjust the speed down.

Also I think with the feedback I get from everyone here that would use the system to it’s fullest effect is to place the timed attack on specific move sets. Maybe making them harder with a bigger payout of damage.

So my thinking at the moment is certain moves having timed attacks circle, some having the picture bar, some being a mash, and others just using only sequences and no timed effort. Also with response to what some one else said make the attacks not require MP or TP as then the feeling of wasting that resources is there. So this is all extremely helpful!!

Lastly, I think for the players having the freedom of choice ai can make separate classes so that way those classes are interlaced with the attack overlays. That way there doesn’t have to be one defined system and multiple playabilty options.

 

[bgillisp]

I'm in the hate them category. I remember playing Legend of the Dragoon and it got old by around disc 3 or 4 when you had to do it for every stinking action. I recall almost blowing out my wrists trying to master those 8 button combos in the end, took weeks for my wrists to feel fine again.

 

[Basileus]

I hate this mechanic in RPGs at least. I think it can work in a full-on action game where this mechanic was the primary way to increase the effectiveness of your actions. But RPGs are built around playing on the abilities of your character, not testing you the player. The way character's should improve would be whatever progression system the game goes with. Reflex checks tend to devalue any RPG elements as they enable the player to do things the characters should not yet be capable of.

First thing that comes to mind is games that let the player solo the final boss at Lv. 1 because they can manually dodge attacks and manually land their attacks, so they will eventually chip the boss down and never get hit. This is fine - great even - in an action game that is only using "light" RPG elements. But in an RPG it's like skipping the development and growth of the character to just let me the player do everything for them. If I'm playing the main character's story, then I want to watch that character grow capable of overcoming more challenges, of getting a sense that this character is not the same as when I first met them. It gets tricky in Action RPGs like the Tales series, but the balance in those games is that actions take little input and the effectiveness really depends on the character - timing your attacks and skills to smash an enemy right as your ally breaks their guard is great...as long as your character actually has the stats and equipment to actually make it work.

I'm not saying that this mechanic would be inherently unbalanced in your game. Just that I'd be hesitant to pick it up since I haven't really seen it done well. I think the hard part for you is going to be figuring out how big the effects of timing correctly should be relative to your other progression systems. You don't want to make gear and levels useless because timing provides a bigger boost, but you don't want the player to feel cheated for timing their attacks and not seeing a noticeable boost. It's really going to depend on what your entire progression system looks like.

 

[CalebW]

I hate this mechanic in RPGs at least. I think it can work in a full-on action game where this mechanic was the primary way to increase the effectiveness of your actions. But RPGs are built around playing on the abilities of your character, not testing you the player. The way character's should improve would be whatever progression system the game goes with. Reflex checks tend to devalue any RPG elements as they enable the player to do things the characters should not yet be capable of.

First thing that comes to mind is games that let the player solo the final boss at Lv. 1 because they can manually dodge attacks and manually land their attacks, so they will eventually chip the boss down and never get hit. This is fine - great even - in an action game that is only using "light" RPG elements. But in an RPG it's like skipping the development and growth of the character to just let me the player do everything for them. If I'm playing the main character's story, then I want to watch that character grow capable of overcoming more challenges, of getting a sense that this character is not the same as when I first met them. It gets tricky in Action RPGs like the Tales series, but the balance in those games is that actions take little input and the effectiveness really depends on the character - timing your attacks and skills to smash an enemy right as your ally breaks their guard is great...as long as your character actually has the stats and equipment to actually make it work.

I'm not saying that this mechanic would be inherently unbalanced in your game. Just that I'd be hesitant to pick it up since I haven't really seen it done well. I think the hard part for you is going to be figuring out how big the effects of timing correctly should be relative to your other progression systems. You don't want to make gear and levels useless because timing provides a bigger boost, but you don't want the player to feel cheated for timing their attacks and not seeing a noticeable boost. It's really going to depend on what your entire progression system looks like.

Thank you for the in-depth reply, this puts a whole different perspective on my thoughts of the design. But in a good way.

 

[M.I.A.]

I don't think that timed attacks are too engaging, as they are intended to be. The only game that really pulled it off well was Mario RPG. If you missed the timed input, it didn't affect you too much. However, if you got the input, it made a substantial difference.

My 2 Gil.
-MIA

 

[CalebW]

Yes, Mario RPG was fantastic in a lot of ways. But that system also had a combination attack that involved both party members. Pulling something like that off would mean re-writing the entire battle system code or pulling off some grand action sequence where another member is called.

 

[Henryetha]

It's really how you're balancing them.
It's sad to see, so many people dislike them, may it be because they would be too fast (requiring too much of reflexes) or be it because they would be too repetive.

I've always seen timed attacks as something, improving the immersion into the game, making the player FEEL, he is in a battle.
Ofc if the game is based on pure strategy, then Timed Attacks might just not fit into the setting - that's an understandable point - for a certain type of game.
But generally I think they can bring alot of dynamic into the (often repetive) battles.

I mean, you can customize everything.. speed, damage, heal amount..
They are totally adjustable - thus - they don't need to be overpowered, not "too easy" nor "too hard" just as any other battle system.
It's totally in the hands of the developer, which effects those timed attacks in the end will have.

Well, my game in which I use Timed Attacks, has 2 protagonists (fighting actors) only. If it had 4, like a majority of games, I would probably have to greatly reduce the use of Timed Attacks, in order to make them not too repetive. But so far seems fine.

 

[CalebW]

It's really how you're balancing them.
It's sad to see, so many people dislike them, may it be because they would be too fast (requiring too much of reflexes) or be it because they would be too repetive.

I've always seen timed attacks as something, improving the immersion into the game, making the player FEEL, he is in a battle.
Ofc if the game is based on pure strategy, then Timed Attacks might just not fit into the setting - that's an understandable point - for a certain type of game.
But generally I think they can bring alot of dynamic into the (often repetive) battles.

I mean, you can customize everything.. speed, damage, heal amount..
They are totally adjustable - thus - they don't need to be overpowered, not "too easy" nor "too hard" just as any other battle system.
It's totally in the hands of the developer, which effects those timed attacks in the end will have.

Well, my game in which I use Timed Attacks, has 2 protagonists (fighting actors) only. If it had 4, like a majority of games, I would probably have to greatly reduce the use of Timed Attacks, in order to make them not too repetive. But so far seems fine.

I agree, I guess since my story has 5 main characters, and based on a progressive storyline of acquiring powers and becoming the stronger versions of themselves I can see why timed attacks can be a harder thing to add in. Lol idk