The github file (deleted, but alive and well elsewhere) linked in the OP?
Yeah, it's a parody. For any folks who might still be wondering.
The author, Arielle Schlesinger, directly states "As a student of Technology and Social Change, I am currently exploring what a feminist programing language would look like for my thesis.".
For any folks who might not know how thesis projects work. She's taking topics she's interested in and doing thorough work exploring them for some kind of degree. I thought I'd clarify for anyone who might still earnestly think this is to "smash the toxic patriarchy".
But that's not really the issue here - Galenmereth has already said it's a parody.
You see, those people don't want equality anymore; they misinterpret the meaning of the word willfully. They want feminism.
Come now... Feminists are pro female. It lies in the word. Gender
equality arguments can be used as tool among the less sincere. If they truly believe in gender equality they are not feminists.
Yeah you're absolutely right
The reason I said it was because people keep confusing feminism with the fight for equality, which it isn't, but it's become almost synonymous in a lot of media.
This mysterious "they" - the "feminists", who are they? What are these mysterious creatures? Their unknowable designs? This mysterious...
feminist agenda?
If you ask Schlesinger, whose work prompted this discussion,
she says "It might help to talk about what feminism means to me, as feminism means different things to different people. bell hooks defines feminism in Feminism is for Everybody as “ a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation, and oppression.” I want to live in a world where people are not marginalized based on their appearance, birth, beliefs, or spirituality."
This is not stating that women are superior to men. Very rarely will you see women who identify as feminists and believe that women are superior.
Here's a someone else talking about the "pro-female" aspect of feminism.
If you think feminists as a general term are pro-female, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you believe this implies they are anti-male by definition. This is the belief I'm inferring from your posts. So here's someone discussing, very roughly,
why people believe feminism hates men. I don't agree 100% with this article, but I'm willing to put it on the table; my problems with it aren't really topical at the moment.
Here's a short, 40 second vid if you're not in the mood for walls of text. I do apologize for the length of this post. It might not seem like a topical vid, but I'm linking it because
here's the creator responding to criticisms:
A last word on Feminism. Like any other ism, it is a big umbrella with all kinds of people in it. I’m a feminist. A minority of feminists think that men can’t be feminists.* Cool. I respect that. But they don’t own the term. And I certainly do not either, especially as a dude. Some feminists are homophobic, some racist, some classists. I’m not that kind of feminist. Some feminist are super marxist, some are very libertarian, most are just regular people like you and me who are interested in making the world better, and recognize that maybe we can do that together. I’m not really interested in whether or not you call yourself a feminist – I’m interested in what you are doing and what you think. If you want to call yourself something else but still are fighting against the institutional and culture oppression of women, knock yourself out! Glad to have you
aboard! Let’s get to work. And hopefully the MRM will get to a point where they are
fighting alongside. But they’ve got some work to do.
I'll go on record saying, again, I don't agree entirely with Benson here, but it's not relevant to the point I'm making - this thread is making feminism out as some big, man-hating specter when that's so far from the truth it hurts.
I wrote that sentence to assure other dudes that they don’t have to be afraid of being ostracized by other feminists for being a dude, and that there aren’t very many who would despite what scary things you hear. The idea of the scary feminists who shout “no men allowed!” is a bit of a stereotype. It keeps other men (and women) away, and it’s a cudgel that misogynists regularly wield. I was trying to say that this stereotype is just that.
Scott Benson again, an excerpt from a larger bit clarifying the asterisk on feminists*
If you want to go into deeper, Inception-levels about whether or not feminists hate men, here.
Most feminists don't hate men, as a group (we hate the system that disproportionately favors men at the expense of women), but — congratulations! — we are starting to hate you. You, the person. Your obsession with misandry has turned misandry into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (I mean, sort of. Hating individual men is not the same as hating all men. But more on that in a minute.) Are you happy now? Is this what you wanted? Feminism is, in essence, a social justice movement—it wants to take the side of the alienated and the marginalized, and that includes alienated and marginalized men.
But really, that's just a small slice. I'm sure you've either met or seen self-identified feminists (and I am NOT going to play the game of is this "real" feminism or not) who come across as incredibly toxic to men. For all I know, they were incredibly rude to you and it was very unpleasant. Not all feminists are like that, but the ones who are? Often have quite a great deal of reasons as to why. Reasons that might be good to consider sometime.
Feminism is not pro-female. Feminism, as an entire movement, does not hate men. Individual feminists might, but the movement as a whole (and I will back this up with a mountain of historical examples, if need be) does not focus on hating or working to disenfranchise men. Even the ones who explicitly say "I hate men" usually have reasons that include "men spend a great deal of their time harassing me, insulting me, and generally treating me poorly", reasons that come from lived experience and literal years of dealing with men who are ****ty to them. If you don't want to be considered one of "those" men? Don't act like them.
Things that will very frequently cause a feminist to dislike you: portraying the feminist movement as unreasonable, militant, and ridiculous through "satire" like 4-chan's version what feminist programming would look like. And then gathering around to mock feminism and the very
idea of something like a "feminist coding language".
The only reason I dare to say this as a man (not that I'm afraid, but because I fear I'm biased as I am not female) is that I have talked about this topic a ton with some really intelligent women, and they said I was allowed to have this opinion because they share it.
I know intelligent women, myself. Women who disagree! I assure you, as you are able to find women who agree with you, there will be women who agree with me, women who don't care about the topic, women who are terribly confused, women who are very certain about whatever view they might have, because women are not one, singular, monolithic group.
It does not matter that you know women who agree with you. They do not represent the voices of all women. Nor does my voice, but I'm not stating that I'm the definitive voice on any topic. You're "allowed" to have whatever opinions you want. Other people are allowed to think those opinions are capital B Bad ones.
this is what I feel is the absolute worst part of a lot of feminist movements: these movements try to make it so that women and men are completely the same, as if there are no biological differences between the sexes.
Zeriab did hit on a good point: the language of gender equality, and in general the language of social justice (those terrifying words like "privilege" or "oppression" you might run into during your travels through the internet) can be put to some truly awful ends. There are a lot of very valid, very serious critiques you can make about mainstream, modern feminism. I'm not interested in having that discussion at this time and place, especially with folks who mock the movement in its entirety.
Those critiques? They have more to do with feminist spaces often being ones where racism, homophobia, and all kinds of "fun" things that end in -phobia or -ism run rampant. As a real, living breathing person who deals with things in my life other than gender issues, yeah, I often feel unwelcome in feminist spaces. Feminism leaves me disappointed very often. If you think "your" spaces are going to be inherently better, especially if it's a space where mocking these types of social movements is seen as A-okay, chances are those spaces are gonna bring even
more disappointment.
"The absolute worst" of a lot of feminist movements really isn't that feminism seeks to make men and women completely the same. The discussions about sex and gender and what even "most feminism" believes are really separate discussions.
If you have the patience to read this link about one particular feminist take on the question, then read it.
It is often claimed that feminists say there are no differences between men and women, by
people who tend to condescendingly point to women’s chest area as they “debate”. Rubbish – feminists are fully aware that women have breasts etc. What feminists say is that neither the size of the fatty glands on one’s pectoral muscles, nor whether one’s reproductive organs are innies or outies, are indicators of deeper essential differences, and nor are such indicators of sexual dimorphism relevant when discussing rights, equity and sexual egalitarianism.
Especially topical.
If you're going to immediately discredit, without reading, whatever else might be in the above link or any others, then I hope anyone else reading is a bit more open.
I'm willing to talk about my personal views on sex and gender, as one of these these silly feminists, but right now the bee in my bonnet comes from the fact you're using a very ill-informed idea of "feminism", coupled with juvenile satire to make some kind of point about how feminism is spreading misinformation and harming society.
But that is ridiculous, and wrong, and it causes more societal problems as it continues to misinform.
Your words, in case anyone thinks I'm misrepresenting you. I am unironically interested in whatever societal ills you think feminism is furthering. What is this misinformation feminism is spreading?
Maybe nothing I, or anyone else on this planet, could think to say might even begin to change your mind. That's fine. I'm primarily addressing Galenmereth (and in a larger sense, folks who think "feminism" as blanket movement makes for a fine punching bag - hey this includes you Zeriab, do feminists not deserve hugs?), but a huge reason I'm taking the time to write this isn't for your benefit.
You've very clearly laid out your views, and I've said mine, and I doubt either of us will change our opinions. I'm writing this for anyone who clicks into this thread and has the patience to read the discussion, or might have no idea what these frightening words like "feminism" or "patriarchy" mean. A lot of young folks frequent here and I'd hate for their first experiences with "feminism" to be people mocking a poorly-constructed strawman of the movement.
Yes, I've linked very selective articles. This post is very, very long and I'm wary of shoving literal centuries of information at people all in one huge chunk. However, I'm willing to back up any claims I've made.
