Pro's/Con's of a Dev Team / How to get one.

[Neverward]

Keep in mind this is all about a NON-COMMERCIAL game.

So lately I've been looking around at finished games a lot and really trying to see how much effort in general goes into making a full-length, actually good game. It made me pretty sure that Neverward won't be the only name on the Credits list even if it would be amazing haha! This means that I have to use others scripts, sprites, etc, and that's not counting promotions, testing, making it work on mac/linux, and a whole slew of things that come with making a good game. It's daunting all alone, and that's why many people start up games and leave them in the dust, or never finish any games at all. I think that it would be really helpful to have a small team that can help me with my shortcomings and create a great game experience by working closely together.

Basically, what are the pro's and con's in your opinion of having a few people on your team to help you? Are people likely to want to work on your project for free, if it's good enough?

And the second question, how to get one. I suppose more of what I'm saying is, what should I be looking for in a team member, and what are the kinds of jobs and work ethic people like to do when they're on a team?

(If your wondering what I already have, I will of course have the concept, make the tilesets/character portraits myself, as well as write the draft for the dialogue/general script (wouldn't hurt to have someone help me make it better) and likely use scripts from various sources (though having a scripter is awesome I don't expect anyone to do that for free.) Other then that I'm not 100% sure all of the things I'd need from team members.)

P.S. I'd like this to be a discussion others can reference as well so if you have more to say about teams then just about my game/non-commercial games feel free

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

There was a thread about teams...


From my experience working on a team project (non-RM), if you want it to work:


You would need a good team leader (LEADER, not BOSS)


Then the team members need to be dedicated to work on the project


Communication and documentation would really really make a HUGE difference, especially to ensure that all of you are on the same page


Also, for a free project, some people tend to come and go... losing team members is a probability (can be high actually), especially since your members have their own lives... now this might be tragic in cases of somebody working on like a huge core script for your project, then suddenly he has to leave...


now normally, if it's a free project, then probably they won't look for payment... though it really still depends on your negotiations...


Lastly, it can make your work easier, but maintaining a group is actually also hard... you might even find it easier to work alone + just commission things / request for help from time to time...

 

[Indrah]

How to make a team work:

Step 1: Make sure you have a quiet period of working alone to lern the basics of the program. Being in a team will stress you out if you're in the learnign period and not catching up to standards.

Step2: Make sure you don't dive right into a big prioject with stranagers. Handling a small short project to test out the waters is a perfect way to see how you and the team works.

Step3: The more people in the team the hardest it will be. Try 2-3 people at most actually ACTIVELY working (not just people who pop in to help with small specific parts, but peeps who work heavy duty all the time).

Step4: Have relasitic deadlines and stick to them. It's wasy too easy to just sort of peter out if you're waiting for soemeone else to get to work.

Step5: Discuss everything and respect everyone. The moment one of the members loses interest you're in a world of trouble.

Step6: Try to work with people you get alogn with, not jsut with the sort you can get or want. If you have a bad dynamic or they don't work, there's no point and it'll be worse in the long run.

Advice/opinion: It's hard to attract people to a project already in the works for a PARTNER role (not helper role). People want to input ideas and participate from the ground up, the feeling of "being under a boss" turns most people off from serious work, as it's not THEIR project, it's just soemone else's. (It's not impossible to get semoen excited about an existing project, just harder).

As for getting one...chances are the folk who will happily say "sure I will help!" when you put up a project recruitment topic will 90% not come through. Making contacts in the community and offering chances to work together tends to work best.

Heck, Fomar and I partnered up as a joke when none of us could make a deadline for a contest so we jokinly talked about a team game...and it came through And then we just continued.

What else can I say...I was very lucky in that aspect, so I can't really give much advice. You have many chances that the first peeps you try out won't help, so don't despair. Also DO NOT SET YOURSELF UP TO BE STUCK IF OTHER PEOPLE FAIL, especially when starting to work with someone you can't fully trust yet. So work toegther, but make sure it won't be something you regret if you don't finish. Again, initial short game test.

Above all, never aim for big teams. NEVER. It's slow and very hard to make it work. You can have many helpers, people who will puncually give a hand with specific aspects, sure, but don't have active workers all around as they'll just either have nothing to do or have conflicting tasks and have to wait for each other.

As for what to look for...people who do work. WORK. Not say they'll do it. =_= Also someone you can get along with. And can accept criticism and won't flip out on you or be inflexible I guess.

By the way you seem to be listing a few aspects you should not be worrying about right now. Promotion and external support (mac and linux?) are not things you should worry about before finishing the game, methinks XD Finish a game, then mess around all you want. Too easy to fall in the daydreams of "what the game will be like when it's done".

As for game making in general: MAKE FIRST, PERFECTION LATER. Have a game base, then if you want get poeople on board to help polish the snot out of it. Just don't get stuck on it being perfect from the first step, it's too easy to derail.

 

[Archeia]

On top of my head.

Natural way of getting a 'team'

• Randomly talk to people and be friends with them. Talk about stuff, just be friends!
• Play other people's games and give them feedback especially with your friends.
• Help other people with their projects in one way or form without expecting anything back. This thing will happen naturally for both parties.
• Communication is really important. Unfortunately, nobody can really perfect this but you really need to keep talking to them and know what they feel about what you do.
• Don't claim that you did all the work unless they're like me where we're just, we'll reveal everything later once the credits is finalized or they don't care.
• Don't give anyone a large worklist, divide it up or slowly break it to them and give them some time to relax.
• Don't nag your team members and say you need motivation. You should be motivating them as the Team Leader. If you can't be motivated for your own game, why should they work hard?
• You will be in a love triangle with your game and your team members. Good luck.

Getting a -team-

• Have a well thought out plan and organize, show people what you can do. Prove that even when they leave, you can continue the project.
• Know what you want. This is a common problem.
• When you say you only need X amount, STICK WITH IT or you'd end up pissing off some people. Unless you really need to bump up, tell your teammate and don't rush them. 
• Play other people's games and give them feedback especially with your friends.
• Offer trading if one-sided offers just won't work.
• Have an organized workplace (e.g. Dropbox) where it's easily accessible to share things.
• Don't mix work with emotions but be considerate. Communication is really important. Unfortunately, nobody can really perfect this but you really need to keep talking to them and know what they feel about what you do.
• Don't claim that you did all the work unless they're like me where we're just, we'll reveal everything later once the credits is finalized or they don't care.
• Don't give anyone a large worklist, divide it up or slowly break it to them and give them some time to relax.
• Don't nag your team members and say you need motivation. You should be motivating them as the Team Leader. If you can't be motivated for your own game, why should they work hard?
• You will be in a love triangle with your game and your team members. Good luck.

Different Types of Team Members You'll Get.

• Motivation based - Basically they have to love your projects/characters/some aspect of your game to keep on working on it. But they also get burnt out or just flat out not want to work. This is normal and most of the time the type you'd get.
• Super Eager to Learn/Work - very rare that no matter what you throw at them, they just do it. They also tend to be disciplined.
• I like you so I'm helping you! - I think this is really very self-explanatory. If the person really likes you as a person or what you do, they just tend to help at all costs.
• I'm busy but I'll try to help - What it says in the can. Don't expect too much and don't give them extremely vital work unless you think they can do it and you're willing to wait.
• Trading - I make this for you, you make this for me.
• 'Beta Testers' - they're great in a sense that a lot of times, they have the most golden feedback and can lead your project to places.
• Developers - This is actually very important to know. A secondary Dev means they have a say to your project. Be careful with this. You can't call it YOUR game anymore, it's an OUR game and they have every right to tinker with the project as much as you do. You get to share the game in itself entirely and I can't put into words the potential heartaches and headaches you'll get from it. It does have great sides especially if you're both talented people and act like partners.

 

[Shaz]

Moving this to General Discussion


Making a commercial game and a free game are quite different - if you're making a commercial game, you have more of a say in what happens, what decisions are accepted, and because you're paying people to create resources for you, they are usually happy to accept that their ideas may not be implemented. However, it's still great to have people who ARE willing to make suggestions, as no matter how great we may think our game is, there's always something that we haven't considered.


If you're making a free game and not paying your team members, you need to give them a different motive for not only joining you, but sticking with you. Allowing them more freedom and input into decisions can help team members be more interested in and committed to a game.


If I were looking for a team to join, I would not look at project development threads where the OP clearly doesn't have much of an idea about the game he wants to make, or hasn't put much thought or effort into it so far - that, to me, is a sign of someone wanting a game they can say is theirs, but wants other people to make it for them, and probably doesn't have a good grasp on all that's involved and probably wouldn't make a good leader. I'd want to join a team that consisted of people who either had completed one or more games already, and have helped others with their games (whether on a team, or just providing resources or scripts here and there). If I were recruiting, I would want to recruit the same type of people. It's nice to have a dozen people jump in and say they'll help you, but if they don't have a track record of seeing projects through to completion, I'd worry I'll find myself working alone down the track simply because they've lost interest or found other things that are just as exciting to them.


I'd definitely recommend working as a team, especially if you're the kind of person who tends to procrastinate. Working alone is a really hard slog, and when you come up to the 'grind' tasks (you know, those things you have to force yourself to do, and wonder if they're ever going to end), there's nobody to give you a hand or push you to keep at it. Solo development is really hard, so given the choice, I wouldn't do it.

 

[Indrah]

If I were looking for a team to join, I would not look at project development threads where the OP clearly doesn't have much of an idea about the game he wants to make, or hasn't put much thought or effort into it so far - that, to me, is a sign of someone wanting a game they can say is theirs, but wants other people to make it for them, and probably doesn't have a good grasp on all that's involved and probably wouldn't make a good leader. I'd want to join a team that consisted of people who either had completed one or more games already, and have helped others with their games (whether on a team, or just providing resources or scripts here and there). If I were recruiting, I would want to recruit the same type of people. It's nice to have a dozen people jump in and say they'll help you, but if they don't have a track record of seeing projects through to completion, I'd worry I'll find myself working alone down the track simply because they've lost interest or found other things that are just as exciting to them.

^^^^ Best

If I were looking to join a team I would most definitely dont bother if they don't already have stuff done and some stuff to show, specially screenshots and other graphics, sicne they are the easiest to appeal with because you can see them right away, even if the material is placeholder.

On the other hand I wouldnt really join heavy work when the game is almost done, as I'd have nno real influence on it. But thats from a developer-full partner standpoint, not just helping a bit.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

I second everything Archeia and Indrah said. Including the - I got darn lucky part. Rach and I were already friends in real life. Originally there were four of us making a game together, but that just wasn't working. The two of us buckled down and tried to do some smaller things and it really clicked.


From my other not game related team project and can stress that it is KEY KEY KEY to remember this point that Archeia said:

• Developers - This is actually very important to know. A secondary Dev means they have a say to your project. Be careful with this. You can't call it YOUR game anymore, it's an OUR game and they have every right to tinker with the project as much as you do. You get to share the game in itself entirely and I can't put into words the potential heartaches and headaches you'll get from it. It does have great sides especially if you're both talented people and act like partners.

DO NOT, exclude even in passing, someone who is your teammate in development. You can not refer to anything about the game as yours alone. Isolating that person, even by accident, can be very hurtful to them. Our game. <-- key words Share everything with each other. Discuss big changes you want to work with them. Listen to changes they want to make. Share, adapt, and accept changes between each other. It is just super, duper important not to let this person feel left out at all costs. It can be discouraging and lower their want to put effort towards the product.
That aside, it's really important though, that everyone involved has the same drive and want to see the game finished. Having other people a project that is already in the works might make it harder for them to get into the game. (I've been in that position before and it was really hard to work on things the more I realized that I didn't care that much for the game) Promote your story, world, and such and get people excited about it. Mention at the same time what sort of areas you're looking for help with; this is going to earn you people who are already interested in the game approaching to help. Keep them interested. Engage with them.


And as everyone else said, unless you know that this person is joined at your hip for life (Raaaaach <3), then don't have long term tasks that are crucial to the game assigned to them.


I would fall apart without my game dev pal. For me, the team environment is very important because I feed off of the motivation of my partners in creative crime.

 

[Neverward]

Spoiler

How to make a team work:Step 1: Make sure you have a quiet period of working alone to lern the basics of the program. Being in a team will stress you out if you're in the learnign period and not catching up to standards.

Step2: Make sure you don't dive right into a big prioject with stranagers. Handling a small short project to test out the waters is a perfect way to see how you and the team works.

Step3: The more people in the team the hardest it will be. Try 2-3 people at most actually ACTIVELY working (not just people who pop in to help with small specific parts, but peeps who work heavy duty all the time).

Step4: Have relasitic deadlines and stick to them. It's wasy too easy to just sort of peter out if you're waiting for soemeone else to get to work.

Step5: Discuss everything and respect everyone. The moment one of the members loses interest you're in a world of trouble.

Step6: Try to work with people you get alogn with, not jsut with the sort you can get or want. If you have a bad dynamic or they don't work, there's no point and it'll be worse in the long run.

Advice/opinion: It's hard to attract people to a project already in the works for a PARTNER role (not helper role). People want to input ideas and participate from the ground up, the feeling of "being under a boss" turns most people off from serious work, as it's not THEIR project, it's just soemone else's. (It's not impossible to get semoen excited about an existing project, just harder).

As for getting one...chances are the folk who will happily say "sure I will help!" when you put up a project recruitment topic will 90% not come through. Making contacts in the community and offering chances to work together tends to work best.

Heck, Fomar and I partnered up as a joke when none of us could make a deadline for a contest so we jokinly talked about a team game...and it came through And then we just continued.

What else can I say...I was very lucky in that aspect, so I can't really give much advice. You have many chances that the first peeps you try out won't help, so don't despair. Also DO NOT SET YOURSELF UP TO BE STUCK IF OTHER PEOPLE FAIL, especially when starting to work with someone you can't fully trust yet. So work toegther, but make sure it won't be something you regret if you don't finish. Again, initial short game test.

Above all, never aim for big teams. NEVER. It's slow and very hard to make it work. You can have many helpers, people who will puncually give a hand with specific aspects, sure, but don't have active workers all around as they'll just either have nothing to do or have conflicting tasks and have to wait for each other.

As for what to look for...people who do work. WORK. Not say they'll do it. =_= Also someone you can get along with. And can accept criticism and won't flip out on you or be inflexible I guess.

By the way you seem to be listing a few aspects you should not be worrying about right now. Promotion and external support (mac and linux?) are not things you should worry about before finishing the game, methinks XD Finish a game, then mess around all you want. Too easy to fall in the daydreams of "what the game will be like when it's done".

As for game making in general: MAKE FIRST, PERFECTION LATER. Have a game base, then if you want get poeople on board to help polish the snot out of it. Just don't get stuck on it being perfect from the first step, it's too easy to derail.

Excellent advice and points, and well taken, I agree that a small and dedicated team is always better. The skill level is not even as important as their willingness to work on your project, because that is a rarity in itself.

I think it's true that people often don't want to work on a project that has already begun and has a setting and everything already decided, however I think that if your passionate enough and you are willing to take all sorts of input, change things with people's ideas, and mold the game around the team vision and not your personal vision, then hopefully people will be interested enough regardless to stick to the project

Also, I plan to have a strong basis for what I'm doing before I get a team, the tiles, the faces, and most the stuff I can do on my own I'll try and do. However even though I only listed a few things you'll need in the end, I need many things now that I'm not able to do (creating bases for battlers, scripting, eventing certain things, mapping well, etc) and so I will need a team likely before the making is entirely done for the parts I can't learn myself of course...

Spoiler

On top of my head.

Natural way of getting a 'team'

• Randomly talk to people and be friends with them. Talk about stuff, just be friends!
• Play other people's games and give them feedback especially with your friends.
• Help other people with their projects in one way or form without expecting anything back. This thing will happen naturally for both parties.
• Communication is really important. Unfortunately, nobody can really perfect this but you really need to keep talking to them and know what they feel about what you do.
• Don't claim that you did all the work unless they're like me where we're just, we'll reveal everything later once the credits is finalized or they don't care.
• Don't give anyone a large worklist, divide it up or slowly break it to them and give them some time to relax.
• Don't nag your team members and say you need motivation. You should be motivating them as the Team Leader. If you can't be motivated for your own game, why should they work hard?
• You will be in a love triangle with your game and your team members. Good luck.

Getting a -team-

• Have a well thought out plan and organize, show people what you can do. Prove that even when they leave, you can continue the project.
• Know what you want. This is a common problem.
• When you say you only need X amount, STICK WITH IT or you'd end up pissing off some people. Unless you really need to bump up, tell your teammate and don't rush them. 
• Play other people's games and give them feedback especially with your friends.
• Offer trading if one-sided offers just won't work.
• Have an organized workplace (e.g. Dropbox) where it's easily accessible to share things.
• Don't mix work with emotions but be considerate. Communication is really important. Unfortunately, nobody can really perfect this but you really need to keep talking to them and know what they feel about what you do.
• Don't claim that you did all the work unless they're like me where we're just, we'll reveal everything later once the credits is finalized or they don't care.
• Don't give anyone a large worklist, divide it up or slowly break it to them and give them some time to relax.
• Don't nag your team members and say you need motivation. You should be motivating them as the Team Leader. If you can't be motivated for your own game, why should they work hard?
• You will be in a love triangle with your game and your team members. Good luck.

Different Types of Team Members You'll Get.

• Motivation based - Basically they have to love your projects/characters/some aspect of your game to keep on working on it. But they also get burnt out or just flat out not want to work. This is normal and most of the time the type you'd get.
• Super Eager to Learn/Work - very rare that no matter what you throw at them, they just do it. They also tend to be disciplined.
• I like you so I'm helping you! - I think this is really very self-explanatory. If the person really likes you as a person or what you do, they just tend to help at all costs.
• I'm busy but I'll try to help - What it says in the can. Don't expect too much and don't give them extremely vital work unless you think they can do it and you're willing to wait.
• Trading - I make this for you, you make this for me.
• 'Beta Testers' - they're great in a sense that a lot of times, they have the most golden feedback and can lead your project to places.
• Developers - This is actually very important to know. A secondary Dev means they have a say to your project. Be careful with this. You can't call it YOUR game anymore, it's an OUR game and they have every right to tinker with the project as much as you do. You get to share the game in itself entirely and I can't put into words the potential heartaches and headaches you'll get from it. It does have great sides especially if you're both talented people and act like partners.

Very good points here, I think that naturally getting a team is ideal xD but takes some luck and likability. I am very shy but I will try to talk to people more often and see what happens eh? I like your list of kinds of team-members, that's helpful

Spoiler

Moving this to General DiscussionMaking a commercial game and a free game are quite different - if you're making a commercial game, you have more of a say in what happens, what decisions are accepted, and because you're paying people to create resources for you, they are usually happy to accept that their ideas may not be implemented. However, it's still great to have people who ARE willing to make suggestions, as no matter how great we may think our game is, there's always something that we haven't considered.

If you're making a free game and not paying your team members, you need to give them a different motive for not only joining you, but sticking with you. Allowing them more freedom and input into decisions can help team members be more interested in and committed to a game.

If I were looking for a team to join, I would not look at project development threads where the OP clearly doesn't have much of an idea about the game he wants to make, or hasn't put much thought or effort into it so far - that, to me, is a sign of someone wanting a game they can say is theirs, but wants other people to make it for them, and probably doesn't have a good grasp on all that's involved and probably wouldn't make a good leader. I'd want to join a team that consisted of people who either had completed one or more games already, and have helped others with their games (whether on a team, or just providing resources or scripts here and there). If I were recruiting, I would want to recruit the same type of people. It's nice to have a dozen people jump in and say they'll help you, but if they don't have a track record of seeing projects through to completion, I'd worry I'll find myself working alone down the track simply because they've lost interest or found other things that are just as exciting to them.

I'd definitely recommend working as a team, especially if you're the kind of person who tends to procrastinate. Working alone is a really hard slog, and when you come up to the 'grind' tasks (you know, those things you have to force yourself to do, and wonder if they're ever going to end), there's nobody to give you a hand or push you to keep at it. Solo development is really hard, so given the choice, I wouldn't do it.

Great advice Shaz I agree that you should come with as much information, dedication, and goals as you can to show people that you mean serious business.

My issue here though is that unfortunately I haven't created any games prior to this one. I'v worked with the engine and practiced with it but never created an entire game, and that can put a dent in your reputation so far as being a reliable team leader goes. But I feel that if I put myself out there with enough professionalism and with a strong idea/goal it might help people get past that.

Spoiler

I second everything Archeia and Indrah said. Including the - I got darn lucky part. Rach and I were already friends in real life. Originally there were four of us making a game together, but that just wasn't working. The two of us buckled down and tried to do some smaller things and it really clicked.From my other not game related team project and can stress that it is KEY KEY KEY to remember this point that Archeia said:

DO NOT, exclude even in passing, someone who is your teammate in development. You can not refer to anything about the game as yours alone. Isolating that person, even by accident, can be very hurtful to them. Our game. <-- key words Share everything with each other. Discuss big changes you want to work with them. Listen to changes they want to make. Share, adapt, and accept changes between each other. It is just super, duper important not to let this person feel left out at all costs. It can be discouraging and lower their want to put effort towards the product.

That aside, it's really important though, that everyone involved has the same drive and want to see the game finished. Having other people a project that is already in the works might make it harder for them to get into the game. (I've been in that position before and it was really hard to work on things the more I realized that I didn't care that much for the game) Promote your story, world, and such and get people excited about it. Mention at the same time what sort of areas you're looking for help with; this is going to earn you people who are already interested in the game approaching to help. Keep them interested. Engage with them.

And as everyone else said, unless you know that this person is joined at your hip for life (Raaaaach <3), then don't have long term tasks that are crucial to the game assigned to them.

I would fall apart without my game dev pal. For me, the team environment is very important because I feed off of the motivation of my partners in creative crime.

Yeah by the sound of it a Team is not only good, but sometimes essential. The more I work the more I realize that I could really benefit from someone to develop the game ideas with, to get another angle from, and who can help me get motivated (while I help them get motivated ). I love partnership in anything creative, creating stories together, or even art together(p-chat anyone? ;D hehe),  may end up with a way different thing then you imagined, but usually better! If not better, things you create with a partner I think will always have something special about them that you love more then the things you did yourself.

Thanks for all this great feedback so far everyone, I'm steadily growing more and more convinced that I would benefit from teamwork.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Even if just for the feeling of having someone to share your progress with, working with a partner is a pretty great experience.


And from one shy person to another, we have the distinct benefit of being unusually good judges of character from watching people and being too shy to interact with them. It's a blessing really. xD Put it to good use to weed out the bad team members in the future

 

[♥SOURCE♥]

You can use this little formula: Have a goal + something to offer & partner up with people that shares your goal and also have something to offer, but different from what YOU offer.

Working in a good team usully incarnates "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts", and a good team is one where members complement each others.

Commercial/non commercial game, or whatever it is that you're after, each member should have the same goal. If you want to create a free game for the sake of making an awesome game and to gain expertise, then you should state your goal clearly and look for people that shares your goal. Miscommunication is a team killer.

Also, working with people is much more than just sharing the goal and bringing your talent to the table, since we're not robots. Sometimes unexpected things happen, and as humans we should lift each others up, support each others and make us stronger. You should be prepared to face challanges with your team, the difficulties that you find on the way to reaching your goal is what determines how strong your team is. Prepare to be tested, because you will.

 

[Zoltor]

There was a thread about teams...

From my experience working on a team project (non-RM), if you want it to work:

You would need a good team leader (LEADER, not BOSS)

Then the team members need to be dedicated to work on the project

Communication and documentation would really really make a HUGE difference, especially to ensure that all of you are on the same page

Also, for a free project, some people tend to come and go... losing team members is a probability (can be high actually), especially since your members have their own lives... now this might be tragic in cases of somebody working on like a huge core script for your project, then suddenly he has to leave...

now normally, if it's a free project, then probably they won't look for payment... though it really still depends on your negotiations...

Lastly, it can make your work easier, but maintaining a group is actually also hard... you might even find it easier to work alone + just commission things / request for help from time to time...

Big emphasis on that people, and that goes quadruple for the leader(who's usually also the main coder for obvious reasons).

Nothing kills a project faster then a undedicated members or worse, a leader who's lazy/Isn't gunho about the project.

Serious I would bet everything I own, more homebrew games would get completed, if just one person worked on it, because there are so many crappy leaders out there, not to mention a bunch of wannabe developers, who think making a game would be a cool, "easy", and fast side project. Well um no, rather in a team or not, it takes a lot of hard work, and an insane amount of time.

Unless team members are being paid to work on a game, having a tean increases the odds the game will be canceled to almost a sure bet,  "unless" you really know each member of the team(like in r/l know them), and they're all serious about the project.

 

[Neverward]

Spoiler

Big emphasis on that people, and that goes quadruple for the leader(who's usually also the main coder for obvious reasons).
Nothing kills a project faster then a undedicated members or worse, a leader who's lazy/Isn't gunho about the project.

Serious I would bet everything I own, more homebrew games would get completed, if just one person worked on it, because there are so many crappy leaders out there, not to mention a bunch of wannabe developers, who think making a game would be a cool, "easy", and fast side project. Well um no, rather in a team or not, it takes a lot of hard work, and an insane amount of time.

Spoiler

Unless team members are being paid to work on a game, having a tean increases the odds the game will be canceled to almost a sure bet,  "unless" you really know each member of the team(like in r/l know them), and they're all serious about the project.

I agree with all those points except the last. The 'nobody can make it' attitude doesn't fly for me, and I simply won't think that way. If I believed I couldn't do it with a team, or do it alone, what would I be left with? I moved to Cali not long ago, and don't know a single soul, so the likelyhood of finding dedicated RPGmaker using individuals in my own life is pretty slim at the moment. So don't mind me if I have faith that I will be able to create this game, and a team, and not fail, even if I don't personally know the people or pay them

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Actually, if you become dependent on team members and then they leave, that becomes such a hard thing to tackle especially when they left something that only they can do (on the team), unfinished... that's why the team should really be dedicated to the project... else, you'd be delayed with trying to find a substitute member to finish what that one started...


but don't be pessimistic...

 

[Neverward]

Actually, if you become dependent on team members and then they leave, that becomes such a hard thing to tackle especially when they left something that only they can do (on the team), unfinished... that's why the team should really be dedicated to the project... else, you'd be delayed with trying to find a substitute member to finish what that one started...

but don't be pessimistic...

Yeah it's important that the game be manageable on my own. I personally believe my game can be created entirely by myself. But would it even reach half of the goals I had for it, or be as good as I want it to be? No, and I'm not going to stop until I'm sure it's as good as I (and my team, hopefully haha) can make it!

 

[Zoltor]

I agree with all those points except the last. The 'nobody can make it' attitude doesn't fly for me, and I simply won't think that way. If I believed I couldn't do it with a team, or do it alone, what would I be left with? I moved to Cali not long ago, and don't know a single soul, so the likelyhood of finding dedicated RPGmaker using individuals in my own life is pretty slim at the moment. So don't mind me if I have faith that I will be able to create this game, and a team, and not fail, even if I don't personally know the people or pay them

Well obvious there are these fairytail outcomees once in a blue moon Watermelon development is a prime example of that, you know they are the ones who made Pier Solar, but such cases are so rare, people souldn't go thinking, well it worked perfectly for them, I can put a "team" together too,

To Engre Shana: Omg so true.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

It depends on the actual skills of all members... if each person can only do 1 task, then yes, that becomes deadly to the project... but if each person can actually do more tasks if required to do so (especially the team leader), it just becomes a matter of delays...


since if you yourself can finish it alone, and just want a team to hasten things up, then you'd be able to finish it no matter what (theoretically)

 

[Neverward]

Well obvious there are these fairytail outcomees once in a blue moon Watermelon development is a prime example of that, you know they are the ones who made Pier Solar, but such cases are so rare, people souldn't go thinking, well it worked perfectly for them, I can put a "team" together too,

To Engre Shana: Omg so true.

I feel like you are being overly-critical here a bit xD I mean, many a game gets made by teams or individuals, I wouldn't say this is a fantasy, impossible or doomed to fail in any way, if it were then no games would ever get made.

I honestly just hate when people act like something is impossible, because the only way that mankind ever went anywhere, and people ever go anywhere, is by trying the supposedly 'impossible' and overcoming it through your own effort. So sure, it's not likely for a group of scrub/unmotivated people to make a game, but if your telling me that if I put time and effort into it, and find people (who I don't know irl) to help me with it, it's pretty much doomed to fail anyway, then I must disagree.

Is your suggestion instead that I slog along all alone and give up my 'fantasy' of having a team?

 

[Zoltor]

I feel like you are being overly-critical here a bit xD I mean, many a game gets made by teams or individuals, I wouldn't say this is a fantasy, impossible or doomed to fail in any way, if it were then no games would ever get made.

I honestly just hate when people act like something is impossible, because the only way that mankind ever went anywhere, and people ever go anywhere, is by trying the supposedly 'impossible' and overcoming it through your own effort. So sure, it's not likely for a group of scrub/unmotivated people to make a game, but if your telling me that if I put time and effort into it, and find people (who I don't know irl) to help me with it, it's pretty much doomed to fail anyway, then I must disagree.

Is your suggestion instead that I slog along all alone and give up my 'fantasy' of having a team?

Note I said unpaid, It's "almost" a sure bet, not that it is a sure bet that it will fail, big difference.

When you have been burned as many time I have been(and there was no indication there would be a problem with the leader or other member at the time either, so you really never know when everything is gonna fall apart), with multiple teams, then you'll know how it really is.

You could be in a awesome team, you're all having fun, and the progress is steady, then out of nowhere you can be blindsided, bringing everything to a standstill, if not killing it all together.

Inshort, if you don't "need" a team, you're better off not taking the risk of puting one together, teams are "exceedingly" dangerous(the phrase kiss of death comes to mind).

 

[sai]

I can agree with most what's been said! I'm still kinda green to the whole team/game making thing, but having been part of a team and then ending up leading a project has been the case for me. Figured I could share my experience.

What happened for me was that I started with a bigger group working on Maleficium, most of it consisting with writers, a musician, and two artists. While we were able to come up with a very basic foundation to the project, what happened after was that the meat of the game was only thoroughly thought up between the other artist and myself. Eventually the writers dropped from the project because they weren't really contributing further, and the musician also dropped as well due to some personal issues. So from that, I learned that while a lot of people would think, "OH COOL LET'S MAKE GAME!!", chances are that people will drop from a project if they're not contributing much, or they also have some life things going on. So development on that project became very slow because we were pretty much "LOL WHAT DO WE DO??".

Moving on, I figure it would be best to try and partner up with someone who had SOME idea of making games. We did this at this point because my partner and I only had story and artwork down, but had little-to-no idea on how to implement things in-game. So we partnered with someone else to make a short game, and the team work was actually quite great despite the game being ridiculously bugged and troublesome to play (baby's first game jam thing CRIES). All of the artwork was done in a timely manner because our three-person were artists, the eventing being our weak spot because of the former, lol. But in any case, what I learned here was COMMUNICATION IS GOOD!!, tasks were about evenly delegated, and the team drive in general was really great. A motivated team is a good team. <:

So I'm up to the point right now where I'm learning more about game-making, so I can shoulder more than just artwork. I also learned a few things about leading a project, which consists of motivating a team, but also being sensitive to their life schedule/workload so as to pick up the pace if need to be (at a reasonable amount). Keeping the team up to speed with ideas and discussing them is very effective. Another thing is simplifying and/or finding workarounds together, because sometimes things can get overwhelming and even just one more person to help out is a lifesaver.

Essentially, make a small, balanced team with motivated team members who are REALLY interested in the same goal. People you can bounce ideas with is a plus! At least that's the kind of team that's worked for me so far, but I'd really would like to work with others more myself (I'm just shy, uguu).

 

[Kes]

I think there is some false logic going on here.

Fact: many games being made by teams fail to come to completion.  Conclusion drawn = don't try and make a game in a team.

However:

Fact: many games being made by a single person fail to come to completion.  If the same logic is applied then one would have to say, Conclusion = don't try and do it solo.

result = no games get made.

Some people work their best in a team, some people work best on their own.

Some people are a nightmare to have in a team; they should work on their own whether that is their aspiration or not.

Some people are excellent team members.

It seems to me that it is impossible to generalise too much.  Some things seem to be constants (team not too big, everyone interested in the project etc. etc.)  Beyond those constants, however, people and projects are too diverse to be dogmatic about things.

My suggestion to Neverward is that you think carefully, plan as fully as possible and then choose the work structure that you think will be most helpful to you and your project.  The choice between solo, having people do specific things on an "as needed" basis, or full team structure is too individual a thing to be determined by anyone other than you.  Certainly taking opinions in a thread like this is highly useful as people will highlight aspects that perhaps you hadn't thought of, but ultimately the choice must be the one you think is most fruitful for you.