Puzzle development: emulation, dissection, and implementation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Countyoungblood, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Following up on a prior thread here is another fun puzzle.

    If you want to solve please use a spoiler tag so that others get the expirience of finding the solution if they want it.

    After someone solves it id like to talk about how the puzzle could be translated or manipulated while maintaining the mechanism.

    Then id like to talk about how this core mechaniam could be applied to rpg maker.

    I didn't make this puzzle but im going to add my own words.

    Ready?
    There is a bridge that four people need to cross at night. The only way to cross safely is to carry a lantern close to anyone crossing but only two at most can cross at a time

    There is only one lantern and 1-2 people may travel the bridge in either direction.

    Each time a pair crosses the bridge someone must bring the lantern back

    Travel speed of the pair is determined by the slower traveller

    One takes 1 minute to cross
    Another takes 2 minutes to cross
    Another takes 5 minutes to cross
    And another takes 10 minutes to cross

    How can everyone get across in 17 minutes of total time past?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    #1
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  2. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    The one who took 10 minutes is the one who is carrying the lantern the entire time and helps the other three cross, which takes 8 minutes, then to get over by themself takes the remaing 9 minutes...
     
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  3. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Oh?
    Are you sure?

    If each trip takes 10 minutes to complete since 10 minute guy is part of every trip then 2 trips is 20 minutes
     
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  4. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    @Countyoungblood Well, riddles aren't my strong suit, but at least I tried...
     
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  5. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Having the courage to take a swing at something you know you aren't good at..

    You could end up sharper than any natural.
     
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  6. Churro

    Churro Veteran Veteran

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    Here :):
    1 and 2 passes. Time: 2
    1 returns. Time: 3
    5 and 10 passes. Time: 13
    2 returns. Time: 15
    1 and 2 passes. Time: 17

    The most important thing is that the two longest one passes together
     
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  7. GrandmaDeb

    GrandmaDeb Modern Exteriors Posted! Veteran

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    @Countyoungblood I would not find your directions quite clear enough.
    Are there two lanterns? Can one group go and then the other and then are we done?
    Or does someone need to come back with the lantern, similar to a rowboat riddle.
    Is the travel time for a group of two equal to the slowest member?

    And does it HAVE to take exactly 17 minutes?
     
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  8. Churro

    Churro Veteran Veteran

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    @Countyoungblood I think @GrandmaDeb is right. I only guessed that there is just one lantern and one person have to go back with it. Perhaps you should mention the one lantern in the description.
     
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  9. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Ok I will edit the OP
     
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  10. kairi_key

    kairi_key Veteran Veteran

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    I think it's doable via huge branching events. Using switches and variables.
    I'd say, have the variable for "total time," so if "total time" is equal or less than 0 and not everyone has crossed, reset/game over.
    Each char you choose will store their time used in variable "first slot" and "second slot."
    Compare the 2 variables for a bigger one. Then "total time" minus the bigger of the 2.
    Ask who's coming back, same mechanic as above but flip side. Maybe by switch check.

    It'd be huge branching but I think it's better for player if everything is done by choices rather than controlling someone to ask each person to go as a pair at a time.
     
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  11. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    Getting a little cheeky here...

    1) Have the 10-minute crosser carry the lantern... while the 1-minute crosser carries the 10-minute crosser! Total time: 1 minute
    2) Have the 1-minute crosser return across the bridge. Total time: 2 minutes
    3) Have 5-minute crosser carry the lantern, while the 1-minute crosser carries the 5-minute crosser. Total time: 3 minutes
    4) Have the 1-minute crosser return across the bridge. Total time: 4 minutes
    5) Have 2-minute crosser carry the lantern, while the 1-minute crosser carries the 2-minute crosser. Total time: 5 minutes

    And they're all across in just 5 minutes, and the 1-minute crosser has charlie horse the next morning!!

    More on point, I'm seeing a 19 minute total cross (10 + 1 return + 5 + 1 return + 2) being feasible, but I don't see any way it could be done quicker, assuming that the lantern must be carried exactly where the people are and the two people must stay together if they're crossing at the same time. Having people cross halfway (or any other fraction) before having the quickest person turn back still led to the same 19 result.

    Looking forward to seeing what the actual solution ends up being!
     
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  12. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Part of the game is the journey so consider this.

    If the five minute guy and the ten minute guy travel together the trip takes 10 minutes one way and five minutes back so 15 minutes

    But what if someone faster was already waiting on the other side to return the lantern?
     
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  13. slimmmeiske2

    slimmmeiske2 Little Red Riding Hood Moderator

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    I was able to figure out the solution on the train ride this morning. :)

    I'll put it in a spoiler in case others wanna try for themselves:
    1) 2 minute person and 1 minute person crosse the bridge. Total time: 2 minutes
    2) 1 minute person returns. Total time: 3 minutes
    3) 10 minute person and 5 minute person cross the bridge. Total time: 13 minutes
    4) 2 minute person returns. Total time: 15 minutes
    5) 2 minute person and one minute person cross the bridge. Now they're all across. Total time: 17 minutes.
     
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  14. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    Ah, nicely done, @slimmmeiske2 !

    That was a very cool riddle.
     
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  15. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    Its old but amusing.

    Lets move on to mechanics.

    To solve the game we had to put the slowest pieces together to minimize the impact on the overall time But we wanted to get the lantern back as fast as we could.

    We took advantage of 10s slowness by slipping 5 in with them accepting that 10s trip had to take 10 minutes and we might as well get the most out of those ten minutes.

    We took advantage of 1 and 2s speed by using them first to transport the lantern back for 5, and 10.

    Both instances we had to find leverage. We had to find the move that would provide the biggest impact and suppliment that move with another complimentary move.

    There is really only two moves to the game the rest just falls into place but the corect move is initially counter intuitive masked by the idea of relying entirely on the fastest pieces.

    This game highlights the utility of strategy over the use of simple force.

    Thoughts?
     
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