Puzzle or not puzzle?

[Lars Ulrika]

Here is my question. When we speak about dungeon one of the words coming along is usually "puzzle". It fills some with excitement and others with fear of that damn puzzle blocking you for hours. 

Though, when you look at games like Chrono Trigger, puzzles are at their minimum difficulty (if we can still call that puzzles) which didn't prevent the game being absolutely the epitome of absolute awesomeness.

Which makes me wonder : are puzzles absolutely a must in a rpg? Isn't there other ways of making a dungeon exciting apart interesting monster fights (which is quite a feat to put together too)? 

Did you already design a game this way? Was is successful or not? Why? 

 

[kerbonklin]

Puzzles aren't a must, but constant battles can be extremely repetitive, no matter how good/fun your battle system is, and that's what puzzles are meant to fix. The best kind of puzzles fit the following:

• Are usually plot-related/advancing
• Fit the theme of the surroundings
• Can give visual or cutscene explanations of environment, world-history, character development, etc. (Travelling through old ruins guarding a family treasure, so you move around statues to match a family crest symbol)

Usually when we have puzzles, it's to use a new ability/weapon that we just received, and then combine it with previous abilities/weapons that we already have.

 

[MasterLagger]

Puzzles are fun, but not a requirement for a dungeon. My opinion is that a puzzle can be complex and fun, but it also need to be logical. It can't be something weird like sticking a light bulb in place of a wooden doll's head (I'm looking at you Ao Oni!) because it just doesn't make much sense solution wise.

You may want to disable monsters attacking in puzzle rooms too. I hate getting side tracked with a monster battle while trying to think of a solution to a puzzle.

 

[orochii]

It depends on what kind of game you're making, and what kind of puzzles you're talking about. The definition of a puzzle as a gameplay element is pretty vague. In a game, you can consider as "puzzle"-ish just the notion of a labyrinth, or a "stealth" section (some enemies on map you have to avoid).


The idea of a puzzle is just interaction. As you're caring to make an scenario, you want the player to at least interact a little with his surroundings. Also a puzzle adds some diversity to the concept A-to-B. I think that from that parting point anything you add is fine, doesn't matters if it is an over-elaborate puzzle or something less distracting. Well, best if it accomplishes the three point Kerbonklin made on his post.

 

[amerk]

Puzzles can be nice, but for me, it's generally the extended exploration that does it for me. Look at Wild Arms, for example:

The game had puzzles, sure, but they also had character abilities that encouraged people to not only advance in the game, but to backtrack and open new areas.

1. Bombs given to Rudy meant you could bomb crates for items or open passageways to hidden loot.

2. The Pocket Watch for Cecillia meant you could reset dungeon rooms, especially where puzzles were concerned.

3. A Hookshot for Jack meant crossing chasms to new areas.

When a game offers new abilities that allow you to explore further, I find these to be much more enjoyable than a dungeon room puzzle gimmick, especially if my hard work and dedication to explore every nook and cranny pays off in a big way.

 

[dinhbat3]

I think puzzles can be a great addition to a game assuming it still fits with the mood of the game and displays a bit of game mechanics.  Like many before have mentioned the use of abilities on map to solve puzzles in dungeons really adds a new layer of purpose for skills and progression.

I'd say having puzzles for puzzle sake would be acceptable once or twice... though that doesn't add to the immersion or feel of the game as much as if it makes sense in the context of the story arc (i.e. chasing after someone who makes it a point to leave traps to stop u from catching him) or at least with the environment (i.e. an old ruins which may have cave ins and ceilings fall down, blocking specific paths because it is so old).

Without the right context and environment however, the puzzles really lose a lot of the shimmer that makes them great in games like Wild Arms and Lufia 2 (both of which have some of the best implemented puzzles in my opinion)

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere]

I am of the view that all puzzles should be loved, but they can't be, because RPGs mostly do puzzles wrong. As a trend, RPG Maker games fail to develop puzzle concepts correctly, they half-lazily create uninspired puzzles that don't actually engage the player, and so they generally mess around with half-hearted concepts that never fulfil the potential of the medium. Now I'm a full-on fan of good gameplay in games, and I'm also of the belief that puzzle games are the greatest genre in gaming, period. But for those who may find puzzles in games difficult or tedious, there should be the option of not having to do puzzles entirely, and that's OK.


Puzzles that are difficult shouldn't be a roadblock to success, but rather they should reward a person who is willing to go outside of their way to finish a puzzle, with a nice prize. There's no doubt in my mind that puzzles are one of the most interesting additions to many games, but it's just that developers just don't know how to design them properly. There's too high of a focus on story, characters, graphics and worldbuilding than there is fleshing out the gameplay concepts that make the game itself. And this doesn't mean plugging in X+Y+Z scripts to try and make your game flashier than it really is. It means sitting down, brainstorming a few ideas for some innovative puzzles, and giving the player something really interesting and cool to think about and play with.


All in all, puzzles are what I believe to be the primal form of player engagement, in the most immediate way possible.

 

[Zoltor]

I am of the view that RPGs mostly do puzzles wrong. They fail to develop puzzle concepts correctly, they half-lazily create uninspired puzzles that don't actually engage the player. Now I'm a full-on fan of good gameplay in games, and I'm also of the belief that puzzle games are the greatest genre in gaming, period. But for those who may find puzzles in games difficult or tedious, there should be the option of not having to do puzzles entirely, and that's OK.

Puzzles that are difficult shouldn't be a roadblock to success, but rather they should reward a person who is willing to go outside of their way to finish a puzzle, with a nice prize. There's no doubt in my mind that puzzles are one of the most interesting additions to many games, but it's just that developers just don't know how to design them properly. In fact, I believe that there is much too high of a focus on story, characters and worldbuilding than fleshing out the gameplay concepts that make the game itself. And this doesn't mean plugging in X+Y+Z scripts to try and make your game flashier than it really is. It means sitting down, brainstorming a few ideas for some innovative puzzles, and giving the player something really interesting and cool to think about.

All in all, puzzles are a very interesting way to produce player engagement, in an immediate way. I would argue that it's the most immediate connection a game can have with its player.

Puzzles are far from being a must, but there should be more RPGs which have puzzle filled dungeons(ranging from mainly medium-hard in difficulty), because as it stands now, there really are only two RPG games out there, with a real puzzle format in the dungeons(Lufia 2, and the original 2 part Golden Sun game), so a new game to play, that is filled with puzzles like that, would be a huge plus if done right.

 

[Kes]

if we're talking about games that use puzzles intelligently, which add challenge to gameplay without being, as thatbennyguy described it, "a roadblock to success", then I think Manifest deserves an honourable mention.

 

[Cozzer]

Don't forget that turn-based battles are (or, at least, should be) puzzles.

Apart from that, I like games that use the same mechanic many times to create puzzles, slowly increasing difficulty.

The best way is probably to put easy-to-medium puzzles on the way to the player's objective, and leave one or two very hard puzzles as an optional challenge to reach some kind of powerup.

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere]

if we're talking about games that use puzzles intelligently, which add challenge to gameplay without being, as thatbennyguy described it, "a roadblock to success", then I think Manifest deserves an honourable mention.

Yes, that and Master of the Wind.

Apart from that, I like games that use the same mechanic many times to create puzzles, slowly increasing difficulty.

This is truth. I really like when RPG games do this.