Question Regarding Passives & Targeting

Frostorm

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Ok, so I have a Passive Skill called "Shatter". Basically, it makes it so using a physical attack on a Frozen target guarantees the attack to score a Critical Hit. Now, my conundrum is whether I should have the conditional set to origin (the unit that caused the Frozen state in the 1st place) or the current attacker (which may or may not be the origin unit). For example, let's say we have 2 units that can both deal physical damage and can both cast elemental Ice attacks in order to cause Frozen status. However, let's say only 1 of them has the Shatter passive. Let's call the unit with Shatter as A and the unit w/o it as B.

If unit B casts Freeze on a monster and then unit A physically attacks the monster, should the attack be a Critical Hit? Remember, unit B is who inflicted the Frozen state, and thus, is considered the "origin" unit. Also, keep in mind that unit B does NOT have Shatter. So should the Shatter effect be based on the origin unit or the attacking unit? In the former case, unit A's attack will NOT Crit. In the latter case, it will. So which should be the case?

Edit: Ok, now let's say unit A Freezes a monster. Remember, unit A has Shatter learned. If we're going by origin, any physical attack that hits the Frozen monster will be a Critical Hit. If we're going by the attacker, then physical attacks will only be guaranteed to Crit if the attacker has Shatter learned.

tl;dr Should Shatter's effect be based on whether the origin or attacker has the skill learned?
 
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BK-tdm

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For me the answer is a logical one: that which shatters is the frozen enemy, why would one physical attack cause the critical-shattering effect and other not?
Both are hitting a crystallized/frozen/petrified enemy, once an enemy is shatter-able it should be free game for any physical attacker.
 

gstv87

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passives are usually for the one battler.
anything related to third parties should be handled through states.

you could, however, declare *the ability to benefit from inflicted states* as a passive.
 

Frostorm

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If we go by "origin", it means that the caster of the Frozen state has learned to create Ice that is more prone to Shattering compared to regular Ice cast by those w/o the passive skill.

If we go by "attacker", it means the attacker has learned to hit Frozen targets in such a way as to reliably Shatter it, thus granting a Critical Hit.

For me the answer is a logical one: that which shatters is the frozen enemy, why would one physical attack cause the critical-shattering effect and other not?
Because it would be OP for Frozen targets to always be susceptible to being Crit. That's why I made the effect into a learnable passive so players can choose to gain this extra effect if so desired.

anything related to third parties should be handled through states.
It is a state. The passive merely acts as a conditional requirement for the activation of the effect.

you could, however, declare *the ability to benefit from inflicted states* as a passive.
Yea, that's pretty much how it's set up already. The inflicted state being the Frozen state, ofc.
 

alice_gristle

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I think the origin option is the way to go! 'Cuz, otherwise you'd hafta really synergise your dudes like, this dude takes shatter, this dude is Mr. Freeze, they always go together... :biggrin: Also, if you didn't have an ice magic dude around, you'd just look at the shatter skill like a heartbroken puppy and be like, "Waaa, why don't I have freeze dudes...?" :kaocry:
 

AphoticAmaranth

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I'm leaning more towards the attacker, for the simplicity.

If you set it to origin, you'd have to consider what happens when multiple users re-apply freeze. What if A (with shatter) applies freeze, and before it expires, B (without shatter) re-applies freeze? Would the frozen target be shatter-able because A had the passive, or not, because B doesn't have the passive and overrides A's freeze?
 

Milennin

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Depends on whether it's counted as a State or a Passive. State effects are applied universally, while Passives only work for one character. It's up to you.
 

MarxMayhem

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A critical hit means that an attack is more effective than usual. Against a stationary target who cannot do anything against an incoming attack, every attack on it should be critical until it can do something about incoming attacks.

Answering your question: Frozen targets are gonna take those critical hits. If you have "Asleep" in your debuffs, consider allowing crits on those targets as well.
 

LordOfPotatos

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if you have yanfly's damage core and passive skills I can give you the exact code, I have a bunch of mechanics like these.

this goes in the plugin manager, in the damage core plugin, on the damage steps. under the line "if (baseDamage > 0) {"

if (user.isStateAffected(shatter passive state ID) && target.isStateAffected(frozen state ID)) {
critical = true
}

it's 3 separate lines, when you look at the plugin you'll get it.

that works for both actors and enemies if you give them the passive. if the attacker has the passive state and the target is frozen the attack will be critical.

there is also a way to make it so only physical attacks crit but this reply is kinda long.
 

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