Random Crashes while saving project.

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV' started by RHachicho, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    I have started experiencing seemingly random crashes while saving the project. I get a notice that says that RMMV stopped working. And I lose any progress I might have made. Most of the time I save very frequently now so I don't lose that much. But today once again I lost about an hour's worth of work. I really hate having to constantly be paranoid about the save function. And I hope some of you have a good solution to it.

    I am running on windows 10 However I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with the OS or PC as I had the same issue with my old pc which ran windows 7 and had totally different hardware.
     
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  2. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    not exactly - it means that something interfered with the editor while the files were saved - that the data is lost as a result is due to the way harddisc caches work, but not the primary point.

    One possible cause (which has caused a lot of broken projects) is if you save directly into a cloud-type folder. Because if a cloud-sync tries to upload the file at the same time as it is saved, say goodbye to that file. So if you're using a clouddrive, save locally and copy it to the clouddrive after save is completed.
    Another possibility is an antivirus or other background programs restricting the editor when it tries to save. In that case you'll have to find that other program.
     
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  3. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    The cloud thing couldn't possibly be the issue. I am saving locally. Though it's on a different drive than the editor is installed on. As far as anti virus programs go .. I don't think that's it either. Unless it's somehow setting off the basic windows 10 defenses. But if that's actually the case. Why does it only crash about 1/10 times it saves? Why would any anti virus program only interfere some of the time. And not even the majority of the time. In any event I have already tried disabling them .. the problem occurs regardless.

    I'm sorry but I don't really buy the whole .. It's some other program's fault line.

    My other programs .. and even other versions of rpgmaker do NOT have this issue.

    Honestly I'm starting to get the feeling .. that I just should have developed in VxAce. Or even not rpgmaker at all. I would like for you to help me find a solution to the problem please. Not just say "Oh something is interfering". Surely there must be a way to pull an error log or something. Please tell me how.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  4. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    yes, there are ways - but the problem with any timing-based error (the cause for that randomness is most likely timing-based) is that you can't search for the log from the error-side, you need to manually check all possible logs.

    One way would be to give us a list of installed programs and we can check which ones might be problematic if you can't identify those yourself.
    And yes, it can be an antivirus program that does this (or any other access restriction program), even if it doesn't always do this. That is because of the way heuristic searches work and the fact that MV is (due to the way it works for deployment) more in danger of getting false positives than most other programs.

    I don't want to go into the technical details, but there are reasons why MV is more in danger of this, and nothing can remove those reasons because the different way RMMV works is absolutely neccessary for its features.
    And that means you'll have to keep more backups until we somehow identify which other programs are responsible for this.

    Another thing you might want to check is your HDD status - please download a program like checkdrive and test its smart-state (can't be done without such a program). If your HDD is a few months short of a drive failure, the technical differences in the way the programs behave will make RMMV more susceptible to damage than other RMs, and all RMs (and all database-based programs) will be more in danger than regular programs. But if your drive is approaching that hardware failure, programs like checkdrive will give you a warning several months before the real failure happens.
     
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  5. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    Okay my problem has gone waay out of hand. It seems with every MV update the problem gets worse.

    Here is a list of programs that are likely to be running when rpgmaker is.

    Discord
    Skype
    Chrome
    Sublime Text 2
    Gimp
    Notepad
    PNGoo
    Daemon Tools Lite
    RealTek HD Audio Manager
    Nvidia Settings
    Thunderbird
    Origin
    Steam
    AI Suite 3
    Sonic Studio 3
    KeePass
    WinArchiver Virtual Drive
    Audacity.

    I honestly hope you can help me because frankly I am at my wits end. This problem has made developing in rpgmaker nothing less than a nightmare made flesh. I did get the occasional crash when I started but It would be one every 2 or 3 days. I could handle that. Now I am lucky to get an hour in before RPGMaker MV decides to crash.

    Honestly I just don't understand why the dayum editor can't tell me it failed to save and just try again later. Why does it have to dump all my work and CTD?
     
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  6. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    "likely" unfortunately does not help here - there are a lot of unlikely programs known to cause problems, simply because they launch automatically without user knowledge.
    A full list of all installed programs would be much more helpfull, especially with comments on what some of the less known programs are.
    I don't know what AI suite 3 is, but make extremely sure that you don't store any project on a virtual drive (and temporarily disable the virtual drive program to test if that is what interferes with RMMV).

    The destroyed project is caused by the CTD, that has nothing to do with a fail to save. Without the crash, nothing would have happened to the files if it were a simple fail to save. But on a crash, the continuously open datafiles are not closed correctly - and that destroys them.
     
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  7. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    Is there any way to output a list of installed files without writing it down manually? It's a long list .. The game is not on a virtual drive however I MAY have found the issue. I recently installed a 1TB Standard hard drive and since moving the game there I have not had a crash. In fact I had an instance where the editor went unresponsive during saving which recovered itself without immediately crashing. All my other hard drive's are SSD's Is it possible that the way the game save's doesn't play well with SSD's?

    AI suite 3 is a program that tracks hardware performance .. core temp .. fan speed .. things like that. It is part of the motherboard software. I doubt it's the culprit.
     
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  8. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    This is the only way i could think of to do it.

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  9. Krimer

    Krimer Veteran Veteran

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    I think not. I'm using SSD for project from the release of MV, have 1522 hours in steam and it never crash for me. So i think its something specific in your system.
     
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  10. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    Not to be rude but that's a false allegory. It could well be to do with certain types of drives. There are many makes of ssd's with different controllers and different speeds and set up in different ways. Just because we both have ssd's and you don't have problems is no reason to rule it out. So far on my normal HDD I have had one crash in a whole day. And it was predictable the save started slowing down beforehand. So I didn't lose much data. And it's gotten to the point where I can tell when it's going to crash and restart. I'm not saying it's definitely it. And it might by my motherboards ssd controller rather than the ssd's themselves. But the ssd's themselves are brand new. And don't throw up any other error's. Not only that the same problem was present on all of them. It's a bit funny if it's a coincidence that this suddenly fixed my problem.
     
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  11. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    There are technical differences between SSDs and regular HDDs that make it better not to store projects in SSDs, but they should not cause crashes unless the SSDs are near the end oft their life cycle.
    HDD life is counted in operating hours due to mechanical and magnetical wear. SSD life is counted in access operations because there is no mechanical wear but the electronic parts can fail after too many accesses.
    Which is the reason why programs for "secure delete" that remove magnetical traces on HDDs by thousands of write-operations are not only useless in SSDs, but can effectively destroy them.
    Database-type file operations with their continuous open files will cause a higher wear on SSDs as well but that should not cause crashes unless the SSDs are already at the end oft their life cycle.
     
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  12. Krimer

    Krimer Veteran Veteran

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    I think i remember one topic on forum where was a problems with MV editor(i don't remember which problem was that) and uninstalling one of those software was a solution.
    If it does't help i'd recommend to do windows reinstall only with drivers and without strange software even if it comes with your motherboard. Its for clean test and as last resort.
     
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