Random Encounters vs On Map Encounters.

[MisterTorgue]

See I use RAs more at present, as I use a lot more monsters than I have sprites, I generally have between 5-10 monsters for each area, then combined them with troops.

I also have explorer boots, and slayer boots, 1 reduces encounters by 50% the other increases by 50%.

By rare monsters I don't mean bosses, I mean they are friendy encounters, they ask for an item, you give them an item, and they will give you a reward.

Still torn between what to do but I think I may have REs and Quest/Bosses as On Map Mobs

 

[whitesphere]

With my current project, I'm using visible encounters on the dungeons and in towns, but stick to one "Enemy" sprite for the normal troop encounters so I don't need to hunt down dozens of sprites.  In the world map, I use Random Encounters, because I can't really envision the party seeing monsters from, say, 12 miles away (I imagine each square is roughly 3 miles on a side, since a small town will fit inside it). 

For the on-map encounters, I use a Common Event which relies on a random number and an Encounter Difficulty variable (set by the Event) to create a variety of troop encounters rather than each event = one type of troop encounter.  So far, in my project's very early stages, it seems to be working well in testing.

The game re-spawns all of the Encounters when the party leaves and re-enters a map, allowing for grinding but also letting the player bypass areas that are already cleared.  The latter is one key advantage of non-random encounter logic --- the player can clear an area of monsters, then be safe exploring that area.

 

[Kes]

Actually, the 'abstract' single sprite can work very well for on-map encounters.  In my first game I did that, though I used the black 'ghost' sprite and I now wish I'd used something else.  You could pick different coloured flames - blue for ordinary troops, red for tougher troops and purple for something like mini bosses.  There's a lot of flexibility if you go that route.

 

[amerk]

See with this discussion it's making me look into on map enemies, one issue for me is people skipping them and being under leveled for bosses and such.

So what? If you have random encounters the player can choose to run from everything. Or if they have enough repellents (if your game has this tool), they can easily avoid a lot of random combat that way as well. Either way, they may still be under the appropriate level for whatever boss they encounter.

If the player chooses to avoid combat, that's on them. You're not there to handhold and babysit the player.

Either system, so long as it's balanced and not tedious, is fine for me, but don't add or change things solely because you doubt your players will know how to play the game, or you run the risk of insulting your core audience into the belief you think the players are too dumb to figure out what they need to do.

 

[MisterTorgue]

You are right, I might look at using the same concept as @whitesphere as it seems really nice way for players to have control over areas.

Quick question to on map encounters, do you have it so when it touches a person they encounter the enemy?

 

[Kes]

Yes, set the encounter to 'Event touch' - that priority means that the event is triggered when it touches the player.

 

[whitesphere]

If the player is under-leveled when they encounter a boss, that's their problem.   The most important thing is to make sure the random encounters give the player a very good idea of how difficult the boss battle will be.  Naturally the boss is harder, but the goal I have in mind is if the player can beat the random encounters without much trouble, s/he has a fair, fighting chance against the boss. 

Of course, if the boss needs special tactics to beat, that is different from the raw difficulty of the encounter.

The only important thing you need to do as a developer is make sure the player can't save, trapped with only the boss, if they find out they are under-leveled, so the player never ends up in an Unwinnable state.  "Oh, the cave has collapsed.  I saved and now I must fight the Ice Dragon.  Crap!  My party is nowhere near strong enough."

I do this by having the "Save Crystals" set before any forced part of a boss encounter.  So, if the cave collapses and traps you with the boss, the game won't let you save after that, but WILL let you save right before you reach that area.

 

[MisterTorgue]

If the player is under-leveled when they encounter a boss, that's their problem.   The most important thing is to make sure the random encounters give the player a very good idea of how difficult the boss battle will be.  Naturally the boss is harder, but the goal I have in mind is if the player can beat the random encounters without much trouble, s/he has a fair, fighting chance against the boss. 

Of course, if the boss needs special tactics to beat, that is different from the raw difficulty of the encounter.

The only important thing you need to do as a developer is make sure the player can't save, trapped with only the boss, if they find out they are under-leveled, so the player never ends up in an Unwinnable state.  "Oh, the cave has collapsed.  I saved and now I must fight the Ice Dragon.  Crap!  My party is nowhere near strong enough."

I do this by having the "Save Crystals" set before any forced part of a boss encounter.  So, if the cave collapses and traps you with the boss, the game won't let you save after that, but WILL let you save right before you reach that area.

See this is a good idea, its why I use save Crystals!

As I have save disabled everywhere but towns and crystals through dungeons e.c.t.

Do you think it will break the atmosphere if for instance on a collapsed cave where you get trapped, it puts a warning of "The Cave from the point on, looks increasingly unsafe, are you sure you want to continue"? or something on those lines?

 

[Kes]

@MisterTorgue

I think it would be better if a character made a remark like that, rather than have a sign or something.

 

[Dragnfly]

I've always been pro roaming encounter, despite that my current project uses both. Seeing the monster walking around on the field adds extra gameplay for me that random doesn't. Random encounters usually end up frustrating me. Don't get me started on games that have them during puzzles. And unless my game is Shadow of the Colossus I'm never touching set encounters where enemies don't roam around and are always fought in the same place. Although I do understand, say, Mystic Quest using it for a balancing system, even if it clearly didn't balance that game LOL. I have absolutely no problems if somebody wants to go under-leveled or over-leveled. It's their choice. They can play my game however they want. Cheat if they want to, even. All I care about is that they're enjoying themselves with it.

I'm working on taking from several encounter systems. It's fun yet immensely difficult to see if somebody's already made a script for it and if/how I make it myself if nobody else has. So far so good though. Also note that the games I credit are just what game I recalled it from. I'm not saying they did it first.

-Roaming encounters (Credit to Grandia 2 for some of it). The enemies move around on the map as touch events. Some are passive and just wander while some are aggressive and chase you when they get close. Touching an enemy's butt will give you an advantage at the start of battle. But if they start the battle by touching your rear the advantage goes to them. Troops are displayed by a handful of blanket sprites divided up by things like predominant element and difficulty. I'm still working out how many different troop combinations there will be in most dungeons but it will likely be in the area of 5.

-Map Traps (Credit to Xenosaga... sort of). Most of the really tough monsters have some method of gimping them before the battle. Like that group of elite soldiers standing right next to propane tanks over there.

-Modified Migrant Seal System (Credit to Wild Arms 3 for the idea). In WA3 a different coloured ! would appear over your head right before a random encounter. If it was green you could press a button and skip it. Otherwise, it signified a battle would happen in a few steps. You could find unique items called Migrant Seals that represented how accustomed to the area your party was. When you had enough, the ! in that area was always green so you could skip whatever encounters you wanted. But Dragnfly, you said you're using roaming encounters! Shinanigans! How does the migrant seal system apply? ...

-Modified Slay the Weak system (Credit to Earthbound) In Earthbound if you were too strong for the monster it just gave you the gold and XP up front. Mana-Khemia made this even better by not even loading the battle screen. Other examples include most of the Neptunia games and I think some of the PS3 Atelier ones (it's foggy) but they required you to strike the enemy on the map and it was a pain in whichever Neptunia I'm thinking of since that didn't count as a kill for quests. So if we combine these two systems, you get an item hidden in each dungeon and one given to you for each boss which you can trade in dungeons that lets you auto-kill (and get gold/XP/loot and quest points) enemies up to a certain level when equipped.

-Modified Go off the Road YOU DIE! system (Zelda 2, though I'd be more accurate to say Dog Days) Most places on the overworld get roads. No encounters trigger if you're on the road. Step off the road and that's where monsters lie waiting to eat your face. And yes, sometimes you just have to trek it through dangerous lands, though most of them count as dungeons. The "MMSS" thing from above factors in here a lot too. I'm still working on it though.

As for the subtopic of save systems, I very strongly advise everybody making any game to NEVER allow the player to save in a place that can get them locked and make them have to quit and start from the beginning or even an old save. While keeping multiple saves is just common sense I think the number of rage-quitters just isn't worth it. Either do like others here mentioned and have a character say there's no turning back, or don't allow saving in such places at all. Being able to save anywhere by default is a real bonus but at the same time it can completely destroy your game. Whenever I'm playing an RM game I tend to just shrink it when not playing if I'm not by a save point. I'd suggest a temp save system but I have no idea how to do that or if it's even possible.

 

[bgillisp]

-Modified Go off the Road YOU DIE! system (Zelda 2, though I'd be more accurate to say Dog Days) Most places on the overworld get roads. No encounters trigger if you're on the road. Step off the road and that's where monsters lie waiting to eat your face. And yes, sometimes you just have to trek it through dangerous lands, though most of them count as dungeons. The "MMSS" thing from above factors in here a lot too. I'm still working on it though.

I've actually managed to implement this one in my game. The way you do it is use regions for the entire map, and put no region on the road. Then, set all your random encounters to only occur in region 1 (or 2 or 3 or...). Since no encounters are set to occur in all regions, the zone you didn't assign a region to will have no random fights.

 

[Dragnfly]

Oh, I meant that I'm still working on how the modified migrant seal system works with it.

 

[Clord]

Is there term for visible on map random encounters or is this it?


In my upcoming game when you face blue spirit thing you get random encounter appreciate for an area and boss encounters are red spirits. Top of that even monster composition is randomized based on troops outside of set boss encounters.

 

[Dragnfly]

Is there term for visible on map random encounters or is this it?

I've always used "roaming" for that if they move. It's what my teacher used back in 1998 so it kind of stuck with me. I've also seen them called "visibles" and "on-map encounters". Sadly even the big industry doesn't keep any of this straight.

 

[Clord]

I don't recall playing many games that has done it in a way I have. My system is mix of both while most games go either random invisible or visible fixed.

 

[EternalShadow]

I have visible randoms in BR: HD as I don't have sprites for everything, and there is variety in the combinations of enemies you can run into. Bosses and rare game are fixed though.

 

[Julien Brightside]

I tend to go with random encounters in the overworld map and in areas where animals are the battlers.

When facing a siege, the battlers are events.

Puzzle rooms have no battlers.

 

[Wavelength]

I highly, highly prefer visible encounters.  However, it's important that these visible encounters are actually avoidable; otherwise, it becomes an even worse experience than REs.

 

[Tornado Samurai]

I also strongly agree with favoring on map/visible encounters over random encounters. For me, I believe that if the player was constantly subdued into a random battle during the entirety of the game while he/she was, for example, exploring the scenery, on a timed sidequest, was low on health and had to get to a merchant, a speedrunner (a gamer who attempts to finish a game in the fastest amount of time), or trying to farm for EXP, it would be highly aggravating, tedious and annoying if the player was cut off from performing previous activities to fight in a battle they did not request nor want.

In some RPG Fantasy games, I find it highly irritating to be, for example, in a forest gathering key items for a sidequest or performing an action of my own accord, and then suddenly, yanked into a random battle without consent and and forced to fight for little to none EXP or rewards, then suddenly, after escaping the battle, I would find myself in disorientation for a split-second wondering what I was doing to begin with and then remembering, and then knowing that the exact same cycle would happen all over again.

I would prefer visible monster encounters because it gives the player a preemptive of what is to come and offers a player a choice of if he/she prefers to do battle with this foe. Also, the player, for example, may want to do battle with a specific foe, probably to complete the requirements of a sidequest or farm this monster for EXP, and with random battles, this is moderately difficult to achieve, but with visible battles it can be very easy.

Also, if the creator was to constantly have trouble creating events for monsters and placing said monster events over and over again, they could create all the visible monster events and place them all in an unused map. That way, when they wanted to implement a visible monster herein, it can all be done in a simple click with copy and paste into the used map, and there you have it.

This is why I favor the on map/visible monster encounters over the random battle encounters.

- Tornado Summoner

 

[Meteodros]

I dislike random encounters a lot because many games make them appear too often. I hate playing a game where I'm forced to fight every 2 seconds, especially when my team are half dead and I'm trying to find a save point or get out of the dungeon. At least, in a game where there are visible battles, I have the choice to either fight the enemy or run past it. Unless the game made visible encounters which blocked my path and gave me no choice but to fight it... That's just as bad as random encounters. So yeah, I prefer visible encounters and use visible encounters in my games.