Random Encounters vs On Map Encounters.

[RaZzi]

I think the best option is to have random encounters on the world map but you can adjust the rate which the encounters happen or turn them off completely. On other maps have visible enemies. As my game My Peculiar Brother is going to have.

 

[Wavelength]

Yeah, I really agree with everything Tornado Summoner mentioned.

Basically RE's kind of feel like "pain points" that are inflicted on the player, whereas Event ("Visible"/"Roaming") Encounters, when done adequately, either feel like challenges (so if you get into a battle against your will, you know why, and you know what you can do to stop it) or fun little opportunities (if you want to battle).

Even in a game like Star Ocean 2, where I really, really loved the battles, and generally didn't mind being forced into them, I found it somewhat annoying that they were RE's.  When I wanted to battle, I had to walk around a little while to make it happen (the Skills system let me "Hunt" or call monsters to fight, at least, once I leveled the appropriate skills enough).  And when I was lost or doing a puzzle, the otherwise-fun RE turned into a jarring annoyance, because I didn't have the second or two warning to remember where I was on the map and what I wanted to do next (as I would get if the encounters were visible).

I think the best option is to have random encounters on the world map but you can adjust the rate which the encounters happen or turn them off completely. On other maps have visible enemies. As my game My Peculiar Brother is going to have.

Out of curiosity, why do you think this is the best system for the world map, as opposed to, say, the Tales of system which represents enemies in a visible but very general sense on the World Map and then picks the appropriate type of battle to the area/terrain you're at right before it throws the encounter?

 

[Dragnfly]

I was just playing some Chrome Wolf on the bus. It has random encounters and save anywhere. One of the bonus dungeons you can unlock has loot vastly above your level at that time. And by abusing save/load I ran in, grabbed a bunch of high-level treasure and left. I would've done that even if it had roaming encounters and with random encounters it was pretty annoying because I had to save far more often.

If the game's going to let me be a cheap tig, I'd like it to let me be a cheap tig in peace.

 

[RaZzi]

Out of curiosity, why do you think this is the best system for the world map, as opposed to, say, the Tales of system which represents enemies in a visible but very general sense on the World Map and then picks the appropriate type of battle to the area/terrain you're at right before it throws the encounter?

I dislike the oversized characters running around in the world map and when you shrunk your characters you can't view enough details for the enemy characters to be clearly recognizable so thats why. If the engine and resolution would be different, then yes, the Tales of system is a neat one.

http://lpix.org/images/Admiral%20H.%20Curtiss/a66ba330f35356a07653f526a9a37840/ToV04_039112.jpg

 

[Wavelength]

I dislike the oversized characters running around in the world map and when you shrunk your characters you can't view enough details for the enemy characters to be clearly recognizable so thats why. If the engine and resolution would be different, then yes, the Tales of system is a neat one.

http://lpix.org/images/Admiral%20H.%20Curtiss/a66ba330f35356a07653f526a9a37840/ToV04_039112.jpg

Yeah, I can see what you mean, given the caveat that you don't want oversized characters and enemies roaming the map.  It's not something personally bothers me (and as such I like visible encounters even on the World Map), even in simple RPG Maker gamess where the world map objects look ridiculously small (my chibi character is bigger than a mountain range!), but in my experience it seems to split players about 50/50

I wonder if wise use of Mode-7 scripts might help?  It's something I haven't played around with much since my last few projects haven't required World Maps that your characters actually walk around, but I imagine it could look pretty good alongside custom (large) environmental objects.

In engines like RPG Maker 2 you can theoretically "have it both ways" by building big natural/manmade objects and keeping your character relatively small.

 

[amerk]

Out of curiosity, why do you think this is the best system for the world map, as opposed to, say, the Tales of system which represents enemies in a visible but very general sense on the World Map and then picks the appropriate type of battle to the area/terrain you're at right before it throws the encounter?

Another point on this would be for people who want one-time encounters in dungeons but unlimited on the world map. That way dungeons have touch encounters, and enemies don't respawn, but for people who like to grind a bit can still do so on the world map.

Either way, I've seen a couple of games that do use random on the world, touch in dungeons, and have never been too bothered by this.

 

[Wavelength]

Another point on this would be for people who want one-time encounters in dungeons but unlimited on the world map. That way dungeons have touch encounters, and enemies don't respawn, but for people who like to grind a bit can still do so on the world map.

Either way, I've seen a couple of games that do use random on the world, touch in dungeons, and have never been too bothered by this.

This is somewhat pedantic of me, but random encounters are very much a type of "respawning".  I'd rather have enemies appear and respawn on the World Map than deal with RE's, personally, and I think that's a better system in general.  But RE's on the World Map only aren't too bad in most cases, I'll admit.

 

[lolshtar]

The best for me would be evented fights in dungeons/story and onscreen encounters around the world.

 

[MisterTorgue]

I have spent a good amount of time trying to find each individual monster, and its far too much of a pain (not lazyness, just not enough monster sprites to reflect what I have in my D

I have conceded to the idea of having a single sprite but different colours roaming my world.

Basically the below (still to properly make into sprites, wanted peoples views first) have different colours.

I was either going to make the different colours difficulty for the fights for your level (so if a monster level is for 1-3, you are 6 it will be green "easy") or if you were 4, the monster level was 10 it would be red for "Hard" e.c.t.

That or just as monster packs are bigger / harder e.c.t. reflect with colouring (without checking your heroes level).

Spoiler

)

 

[Kvich]

Personally I use Random Encounter for generally everything except bosses or fights with a significant purpose.

In my more dense places with "a lot" of monsters, I have the average step count be 65 as the lowest, and in puzzle rooms I either put off encounters, or set it fairly high, to 185+.

This is further enhanced by party abilities to remove or half the encounter chance, and another ability that force a combat on you when used, so those who want, can grind as much as they like.

 

[EternalShadow]

I have spent a good amount of time trying to find each individual monster, and its far too much of a pain (not lazyness, just not enough monster sprites to reflect what I have in my D


I have conceded to the idea of having a single sprite but different colours roaming my world.


Basically the below (still to properly make into sprites, wanted peoples views first) have different colours.


I was either going to make the different colours difficulty for the fights for your level (so if a monster level is for 1-3, you are 6 it will be green "easy") or if you were 4, the monster level was 10 it would be red for "Hard" e.c.t.


That or just as monster packs are bigger / harder e.c.t. reflect with colouring (without checking your heroes level).

Spoiler

)

I already pretty much do this. The RTP coloured orbs do the exact same thing.

 

[Kes]

@MisterTorgue

Or flames do the same.  I would be slightly hesitant about just changing the colour of the eyes.  On a less good monitor, or for someone with even slight colour-blindness, it might be tricky to see.  How would it be if you added that colour tint to the whole sprite?  It wouldn't have to be very strong, but would, I think, be enough to make a difference under the circumstances I've just mentioned.

 

[HumanNinjaToo]

My opinion is that both can be done. I've recently been playing Lufia 2 again. This game uses random encounters on the world map and evented battles within the dungeons. Even before getting back into this old game, I always liked the idea of using both.

Using the RM has this nostalgia effect on me that makes me want to see random encounters even though they can be annoying as hell in most cases. So while keeping them in certain areas of the game I'm working on, I prefer to have evented battles in the dungeon type areas for the simple fact that people like to avoid them on occasion and it can be annoying having to escape from battle all the time when you don't want to deal with them.

 

[TMS]

I know the general consensus is not to mix random and visible encounters (at least on the same map), but would you guys think it acceptable to use random encounters in place of the usual visible encounters provided there's some justification for it? Like, if the random enemies are flying creatures attacking from above without warning, or ghosts that appear out of nowhere rather than visibly wandering the map?

 

[Dragnfly]

Interesting option. I think what annoys people with the random encounters is that hitting that encounter rate sweet spot is really difficult and there's no easy solution since each map would need treated separately.

Though for the "out of view" stuff like ghosts, look into a game called Oni Asobi. It made a super tense atmosphere by the chaser being invisible and you had to go by sound and an indicator to tell when they were nearby. If you had a lot of wide open space for the player to move in your ghost/flying demons/attack helicopter could signify an oncoming battle through sound or growing shadow on the ground.

 

[Kes]

I think where there is a clear, game-related reason for invisible enemies, most players are happy to go along with that.  And doing the standard tweak in Game_Player will prevent the old problem of having a fight just a few steps after the one you just had.  I think that was the single biggest issue for a lot of people.

 

[Toaofgames]

I would choose map encounters over random encounters in almost any case, unless you use the random encounters creatively to represent ambushes or something of the sort.

 

[encapturer]

Basically RE's kind of feel like "pain points" that are inflicted on the player, whereas Event ("Visible"/"Roaming") Encounters, when done adequately, either feel like challenges (so if you get into a battle against your will, you know why, and you know what you can do to stop it) or fun little opportunities (if you want to battle).

"Pain Points", haha.  Thinking about it, I suppose this is why Random Encounters feel like a perfect fit for the RPG subgenre known as the Dungeon Crawler.  Those games have a very oppressive atmosphere, and the player is tasked with using their party to overcome it.  Death comes easy, and is often expected.  I believe that not having Visible Encounters would defang the Dungeon Crawler quite a bit.  Nothing says 'dangerous dungeon' more than fierce monsters being able to use the environment of their home habitat in ways the player cannot, after all.

That said, it's not like Dungeon Crawlers can't give the players tools to avoid encounters if they wish.  Some of them have Pokemon-style-Repel like item or skills, or things that modify encounter rates; but those tools usually cost precious resources that could be used to progress through the game.  If we look at... say... Etrian Odyssey, that game gives you a way to gauge roughly how close you are to an encounter you are.  The battle is still inevitable unless you use an item to just leave the dungeon, but you can mentally prepare for it.  That game even has Visible Encounters!  But think about what kind of monster could just sit out in the open without a care in the world.  Yeah, these things were just a step down from boss-level creatures... that could ambush you in a random encounter if you happened to be too close to one, haha.  Very rewarding to take one down, though.

In the games I make (not that I've released any yet -_-), I tend to side more towards random encounters in many cases, though I try to add something in to engage the player.  An idea I'm working on has random encounters, but the player can eliminate them from an area if they do well enough in those battles; the creatures would learn that the player's party is not to be trifled with.  It's also a nice gameplay-difficulty-equalizer thing if I can get it right - weaker or less skilled players would get the encounters needed to boost their levels, while stronger players would not need to worry about being ambushed by monsters that don't pose them a challenge(unless they used a 'hunt' field skill or something).