Random threads disappearing and appearing in different places

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I also suspect the majority of forum members would NOT want notifications every time someone replies to their topic. At least, not if they scan through new content on a regular basis and would see it anyway.

Personally one of those, I actually kinda hate the notifs... I just suggested it because it seems more noob friendly...

 

[Tsukihime]

I also suspect the majority of forum members would NOT want notifications every time someone replies to their topic. At least, not if they scan through new content on a regular basis and would see it anyway.

This is how I see it


1. User gets too many notifications. User acknowledges the existence of notifications. User asks how to turn them off because they're really annoying.


2. User gets zero notifications. User does not know that notifications exists. User is expected to ask how to turn on notifications, and is blamed for not asking something they did not know about.

 

[Archeia]

Anyway, nobody would volunteer to be modding this boards if we have to PM every.single.person. that posts in the wrong boards. That eats so much time, clutters up our inbox, instead of just 2 clicks. I don't understand how this is a problem now since we did this since day1 this forum was released. One person complained and it's the end of the world now?

Think of being on our shoes for a moment and how will we mod this thing as well as make the forums accessible. Nobody reads the sticky or do a quick google search and replying to the same question over and over again here and at steam is frustrating.

 

[Shaz]

Are we assuming new users here have so little internet knowledge, that they do not know they can get notifications on a forum? We move threads all the time. We RARELY have people say "hey, where's my thread?" I think this means MOST users can find them and don't need assistance.


In this particular case, it was someone who was a little anxious, possibly worried he may have lost money or not gotten what he'd paid for, and wanted an answer asap, and it didn't occur to him that it was moved. If it was a general support question and he didn't need an answer as urgently, he probably would have found it with just a bit of searching.


I don't think we need to change our methods for something that happens so infrequently, when it's going to generate a lot more work for us.

 

[Tsukihime]

Anyway, nobody would volunteer to be modding this boards if we have to PM every.single.person. that posts in the wrong boards. That eats so much time, clutters up our inbox, instead of just 2 clicks. I don't understand how this is a problem now since we did this since day1 this forum was released. One person complained and it's the end of the world now?

Someone felt it was a problem, so I figured it must be a problem.

Think of being on our shoes for a moment and how will we mod this thing as well as make the forums accessible. Nobody reads the sticky or do a quick google search and replying to the same question over and over again here and at steam is frustrating.

I'm sure all businesses would love to say that to their customers, but well, they can't cause then they'd be out of business.


So now I'm asking what's wrong with redirect threads? Saves mods extra work, makes it clear to everyone that a thread was moved.

 

[Galenmereth]

Here's how I foresee the thought process usually works out for people:

1. I make a thread asking a question.
2. I look for the thread later where I posted it. It's gone. I'm a bit confused.
3. I start looking for a way to see my content; maybe my memory is wrong and I didn't post it where I thought I did?
4. To find my content, I click my username to find something like "my content". Ah, there it is.
5. I find my thread

Now, a few steps might be removed or added, and might take a bit of time, but most people are familiar enough with this kind of system (go to your profile to see your content) by now. Those that aren't will probably ask about this in the support forum. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with the way it's done today, which I think is pretty clearly shown by this problem being an exceedingly rare occurence. In five months I haven't seen it until now, for the first time.

 

[Shaz]

This forum has 18000 members. Even if only 1% of those are legitimate, active members (180), how much work would it be for us if we had to cater for every "can you change the way you do things" request made by just one member?


If a decent number of people were affected and upset by this, and it was more than just an inconvenience to them, we WOULD consider doing something (it would not be a PM to the member each time we moved a post, and it would not be leaving a shadow/pointer topic in the original location, but it might be turning on notifications by default to topics started). But it's really not that big a problem.


(and in case anyone notices and questions it, I've hidden the thread that prompted this thread. It was made under a mistaken assumption and I don't think it needs to remain around)

 

[Tsukihime]

The reason I bring this case up in particular is because the context of the topic was related to the impression given by the site that claims itself to be the "Official RPG Maker forums", and not just someone's thread getting moved around.


It concerns the image of the website and the company itself, if that really matters to anyone.


There are people coming here hoping to accomplish something with whatever amount of money they may have given to the website.


They are now "customers" and not just random internet people.


It's not a matter of 99% of the people are fine with it. What's important is that there is 1% or even 0.001% of the people that don't like it, and there are things that COULD be done, but aren't for questionable reasons like "it looks ugly".


Is it because this is volunteer work? Would more effort be put into it if there was compensation?


If the admins are fine with it then I suppose it doesn't make a difference, but that wouldn't really be a positive image to any stakeholders either.

 

[Archeia]

It is not that it looks UGLY, it clutters up threads that are VALID such as tutorials and you're going to see a lot of redirected topics and links that will put the important ones UNDER. You don't know how many approval threads we have to move. I can safely say they can fill up an entire page. SO redirect links is the worst way about it. It's not "we're not doing it since it's ugly. IT'S SPAM." you can't just do this one board, it has to be in EVERY board for consistency. I rather have that cleanliness and ease of access than surfing through redirect links. ESPECIALLY in RGSS3 Script Boards. When Mr. Bubble was doing the redirect thing I end up deleting them since they look bad and takes up space for scripts that I just need and are valid topics. You just didn't see them since they were removed immediately AND in project boards.

A compensation for once in a blue moon 0.0001% person, who is not even active on this forum, is not worth it for tons of work that we will have to do in return. Our time is short enough as it is. 

 

[Shaz]

It concerns the image of the website and the company itself, if that really matters to anyone.

Really, you're going to play the "you don't really care about the company's image" card?


Why would we treat ANYONE here as anything OTHER than a customer? Because EVERYONE here using RPG Maker has actually purchased it from Degica, right (oh, except those who have pirated it and still expect us to go out of our way to help them, even though THEY don't care enough to pay for the product)? So one person who makes a purchase and comes here for help is no different to anyone else here, most of whom purchased at full price and not during a sale.


Yes, there are things that could be done about it. No, they are not things we want to do, for reasons already given. And no, payment vs volunteer is not the reason - I would still not PM every person whose topic I moved if I were paid to do moderating here. It is just too much work, on top of what we already have to do for the forum (and this is from someone who does NOT provide content for store products, Steam, the blog, ReStaff, Member+ or any of the other "programs" - so most of the other mods who do are even MORE busy than I am).


We cannot change what we do every time one person says "I don't like you doing it that way". And if we did, people would complain about the changes. Remember the red text? We changed it to blue because red was too intimidating. That suits everyone now, doesn't it, and everyone's happy about it, aren't they? No - they complain about the blue text too. And if we had redirects, people would complain about them cluttering up the important posts. And if we had automatic notifications, people would complain about getting notifications. You say it wouldn't hurt for that to happen, then we can just let them know to turn them off. But how is that different to someone complaining that their post is missing and us telling them where they can go to find it? It's still someone complaining about something and us giving them a solution.

 

[Archeia]

Speaking of which, didn't we have rules to avoid this specifically??? =_=

 

[Tsukitsune]

because moderators don't have enough to do already Half my time here is spent moving threads to where they should be. Why can't we just expect that people will take notice of where they post, and if they lose their post, to look at New Posts or My Content? Why should moderators have to do everything to save everyone else a little bit of trouble?

(btw, in case you haven't seen, the person in question has NO issues with me moving his thread)

Hmm when I said message I meant more of an automated message if possible, as I agree it would be tons of work to manually do it for every single thread.

If it's possible to alert the member of their thread being moved without clutter, or too much unnecessary work for the mods than I don't see much of a problem.  But if there's no way around it but to give mods much more work just to satisfy the very few minority like the guy in question, then there's not much of a reason to change the way things are currently.  I'd even say it'd be more of a disservice to everyone else, as the mods would have to take up much more of their time for such minute things that they could be using for the mass majority instead.

 

[Tsukihime]

Speaking of which, didn't we have rules to avoid this specifically??? =_=

Ya I think it was something about "never question a moderator's decisions publicly" as the discussions never look good.

 

[Archeia]

Ya I think it was something about "never question a moderator's decisions publicly" as the discussions never look good.

It was something about READ WHAT THIS BOARD IS FOR.

Like I don't know, despite us having this, we still get things that deny this warning, almost everyday.

 

[Shaz]

Ya I think it was something about "never question a moderator's decisions publicly" as the discussions never look good.

Ahhhhahahahaha, yeah, that's a good one.


If people would read the forum rules and the pinned threads at the top of the forums, and search for help rather than going ahead and posting their question, moderators would have so much less work to do, and less to get raked over the coals for when they do it (honestly, I've seen a question asked, when the exact same question has been asked and answered two posts down in the same forum).


THIS is what we have to deal with, almost every time we come here - people who don't bother to read these:


Creating a Support Thread

1) Script-related issues.


Please use the Script Support forum or the script's thread.


2) Resource requests.


Please use the Resource Requests forum.


3) Elaborate event systems.


Please use the Event System Support thread.

Classifieds - Requests (Rules)

This forum is only for paid resources. Requests offering a copy of your game, payment after the game is released, or royalties, or asking for people to join your team without definite payment, will not be approved.

Event SYSTEM Support (Expert Users Only)


The title says it all, but people post there asking how to make an NPC say something different the next time you talk to him.


This Forum is for COMPLETED Scripts Only


I moved so many script requests OUT of the completed scripts forum in my first few days as a mod, that I generated complaints from people who had notifications turned on for the forum (because I had to approve the thread, which triggered the notification, before I could post that I was moving it). And do you think it's stopped since I made that pinned topic? Nope, not a bit.


Script Request Rules


Everything in that post is constantly ignored.


Not to mention the MANY posts that completely ignore the following, in several forums:

Requirements to Open New Thread ... The above is the minimum required before opening a new thread.

New threads are subject to moderator approval. Do not post it elsewhere just because you can't see it

And that isn't even TOUCHING on the Forum Rules that are blatantly ignored, over and over again.

 

[kerbonklin]

Just want to say that I never touched the Follow Topic / Suscribe button in my forum life here, or any other forum i've been on.

I support an auto-notification as a possibility.

Oh and yeah definitely a lot of people are mindless and don't pay attention to rules/notifications. x_x

 

[Nathanial]

So basically it's the user's fault for not knowing that their threads may be moved at any given time without any notification whatsoever. This is questionable customer service, and is exactly the problem that has been raised in the referenced thread.

Hi there! 

Might I suggest making a feature request to Invision Power Services, the company that writes the forum software. To keep the forums clean, we don't leave ghost threads. 

Other than that, I see you've received some wonderful suggestions (follow topic button). Whether or not you choose to do them is your own call.

Would you say this thread's about resolved?

PS: I noticed you mentioned the words 'customer service'. Our volunteer moderators are not customer service agents. Even Web Staff people moderating aren't doing it on paid time. If you're looking for customer service (by the way you're referring to it), you're looking for this.

Unless you mean it's just overall inconvenient to customers. That's another thing. Which I think was addressed by a number of folks

Best practice: Read the rules. Make sure you're posting in the correct area. If you're not sure, PM a staff member. I've even seen new members that just joined ask in the status update section where to post it and a staff member even responded. Send a PM if you really can't figure out the correct spot to post a thread. Or go through your very own profile and look at your own latest topics or your latest posts. They're pretty niffty functions for things like this. You can also view another members latest topics and posts by visiting their profile. That's helpful if you want to follow what a friend might be posting, or revisit a thread you saw before, and only remember the person that posted.

 

[Ruby]

I'm just going to throw in my two sense here. READ THE RULES. I do understand the inconvenience of not knowing where your thread was moved, however if you posted in the wrong forum you must have been at least a little unsure of where you were posting in the first place. If you're like me and like to read all the new topics, you would notice something: At least half of them are moved because they were posted in the wrong forum. 

One of the many ways this can be solved is by reading the rules on every forum. They specifically tell you what is, and what isn't allowed to be posted. To be honest, I'm very grateful they at least move my thread for me. If it was me running a forum, I'd simply delete the thread and tell them tough luck when they go searching for it. It's curtesy to follow the forum rules, and not something someone should get upset about when it doesn't go their way, or they don't understand why it is the way it is. Seriously, they do SO MUCH WORK for us, the least we can do is read the freakin' rules and post in the correct forums. It isn't hard. 

Rules are in place for a reason, to keep the place clean and tidy. 

@Shaz: Do you guys post a link to the forum rules when you comment that their thread has been moved? Because I totally would link the rules for the thread they didn't post in, and the one that they did, to avoid confusion. Or maybe you guys can add a portion letting members specifically know what kinds of threads to post where. 

ETS: I just read your last comment Shaz, it's ridiculous how someone can avoid reading simple rules, and get mad because THEY didn't follow a rule that was in it. >.<

 

[Shaz]

I've moved this thread to a different forum. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.


The above is a macro that automatically generates text when we type the required code (you can see it sometimes when another member quotes our posts). As you can see, this one doesn't have a link to the forum rules, because that particular (forum rules) thread doesn't talk about where to post new threads. Many of the forums have pinned topics that explain what should, and should not, be posted there.


Macros for things like double posting and necro posting DO have an automatic link to the forum rules.


Moving a thread and saying that you moved it is a 6-click process (plus the typing). To have to include a link to any pinned rules would require us to navigate to that forum, grab the links, come back and post them. SOMETIMES we will just say to check the pinned threads for rules/requirements and tagging in the new forum, and sometimes I'll explain WHY a thread belongs in one forum rather than another. But neither of those things are actually required as a part of the moderation process. When you consider that I log on in the morning and there are a dozen of these to do, you'll probably understand why I usually couldn't be bothered going to the trouble Yes, laziness on my part, to some extent, but then again, if the OP can't be bothered reading the pinned threads or putting a bit of thought into where they post, why should I go to the trouble of doing more than moving it and stating that I moved it?

 

[Celianna]

One sole user complained about a thread disappearing (not about getting no notifications), who was probably not very knowledgeable with the forum in the first place to check their own content. We are not going to accommodate one user who didn't even complain themselves and realized their own mistake. We have been doing this since day one, and so far, this was the ONLY person who couldn't find their own thread again. We've been online for almost two years now.


Redirected threads clutter up the forum and we might as well not move them, so this is pointless.


Why are you complaining about this again? One incident does not a problem make.