Real romance vs Fantasy romance

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by kovak, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    So i need some opinions about it cuz i may introduce it in my project but i dunno how to do it in an organic way. I've ended up in The Red Pill and PUA stuff and also in Phycology Today blog for references but things are not working as intended.

    I have a female protagonist and a bad boy party member, they hook up but i dunno if it's better to leave as if they mind their own business or if they start to have feelings for each other. I know men tend to get into romance stuff faster.

    I dunno if Game of Thrones would help me as well.
     
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  2. Arisa

    Arisa probably dead Veteran

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    :kaoswt2: Having been in several relationships, it honestly depends on the person. If they're the bad boy because in reality they're shy and awkward, I find they have a hard time just spitting it out, and try to quickly put up the cool facade. But if they're bad just to be bad, (even in real life) kinda go all tsundere (which is amusing LOL)

    I'd just introduce their feelings slowly, and when you think it's the right moment, just have them say it.
     
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  3. OmnislashXX

    OmnislashXX Veteran Veteran

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    It really depends on their personality. Female protagonist- is she forward, does she kinda beat around the bush about it or brush it off? Is she submissive or a more dominant type? male Protagonist- is he a bad boy as in he like girls, or just bad in that he likes to beat people up? but does he get shy when suddenly the girl is sorta coming on to him? Or is he like, yes, Time to get some. Know your characters and they will write themselves.
     
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  4. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    Whatever their personality is, my personal liking is, when the romance is developed overtime. I mean, the moment they spend together. While they may not notice each other directly, or ever admit it because why they should if they don't even realized it?

    In the right moment, you could use those times they spend together as a flashback of how precious is their partner actually. And eventually realizing the person is important to them. Granted, you can bring this to tsundere type of relationship, but it's completely up to you. This way, I feel like their relationship has more reason to bloom even greater.
     
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  5. XIIIthHarbinger

    XIIIthHarbinger Part Time Super Villain Veteran

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    The number of potential relationship dynamics that can determine how the characters interact, are frankly too numerous to enumerate here.

    So I would simply say, that no matter the nature of the relationship, the important thing is for it to be believable to the audience. Romances are quite possibly the last place you want to try Shammalanesque plot twists, unless you're making something akin to a visual novel soap opera.

    & because the player really doesn't get to see inside the characters heads, it's important to foreshadow as a way of showing where they are at mentally.

    The last thing you want to do is pull a Legend of Korra, "Oh by the way they're a couple now, good night folks (slams the door & runs away)", where you have to actually tell the audience outside the medium to confirm what you were trying to indicate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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  6. Jhale M.

    Jhale M. Goddess of health, purity and truth. Veteran

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    Why are you referencing Red Pill, Pick Up Artistry, Game of Thrones and Psychology Today? Sounds like really bad places to get romantic advice. I'm also confused on what you want us to focus on in concerns to the topic title.
     
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  7. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    Cuz dealing with real romance is hard for me so i need references. Most of time i dunno how things actually played for me and how i've ended up with someone besides me in bed.
     
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  8. Matseb2611

    Matseb2611 Innovate, don't emulate Veteran

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    You have to develop the characters' personalities first and then it will become intuitive on how their romance could develop. Like if they have some inner insecurities or trust issues, those are going to show up in how they handle a relationship and could become obstacles, and the other person's attitude to this may decide whether the relationship overcomes this or perishes.
     
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  9. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    paraphrasing G.R.R, "if you're expecting a happy ending,.... you haven't been paying attention"

    I'm not into romance myself, but I do have a number of love stories to write and I can't pass the "I love you" stage.
    I mean, the love of the characters is stated, but not the *why*.
    that should probably be a major pillar when writing a story.... there should be a clear reason for either part to love the other.


    speaking mainly from the "attraction" aspect, from what I've experienced,..... talking, shared looks and shared experiences are important.
    all of that should sum up to answer the question "is THIS the person I want for the rest of my life?"
    I've been in relationships with lots of talking, lots of eye-contact flirting, lots of intense experiences, but the few that lasted longer were the ones where I got significantly closer to answer my partner's question (AKA, the specific-need-in-a-specific-time-and-place-who-nobody-could-ever-get-to-know-because-it-sums-up-to-the-grand-total-of-'every-single-time-I-didn't-have-that-and-I-needed-it-really-really-bad' emotion)
    now, looking back, I probably could have handled them a lot better.

    IF you were to take ALL THAT into account, the personal experience, the quote, and the quote applied to the narrative, I guess the best way to handle a romance is not to handle *the romance* but *everything that would affect it*.
    why are the characters of GOT unhappy? because they fail to take into account that *the rest of the world* doesn't care about whether *they* are happy or not.
    SPOILER ALERT, if you're a GOT follower and haven't caught up to season 4
    why does Robb fail? because he gambled on the Freys sharing his personal view on royal matters, etiquette and arrangements of the time.
    he never sat down to think "hm, maybe Lord Walder only cares about his bridge, and his own status..... better not put his support at risk by depriving him of that"
    /spoiler
    just as you would have to ask yourself the question "is this the person?", you also have to ask "are THOSE people going to leave us alone?", and furthermore, "does this person share the same enthusiasm when raising the matter of having to go against *those* people?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  10. Nivlacart

    Nivlacart I just opened an art shop 11/6 :D Veteran

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    The best fictional reference for love I believe are Fullmetal Alchemist (Edward), or Avatar: The Legend of Korra (Varrick)
    There is a romance that subtlely builds over time through the series, but only alongside the main plotline, which is saving the world.
    They get angry at each other throughout, but it's clear how they eventually find their partners more and more important to them.
    It never throws the whole plot of the series on a detour like Sword Art Online where the fate of the world is put aside to explore this newly developed romance. That's asinine.
     
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  11. VioletSpark

    VioletSpark Launcher of a Thousand Ships Veteran

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    I don't mean to be awkward but . . . is this intended as a joke?

    I can't picture how anyone looking for information on realistic romance would end up on Red Pill.

    No, wait, did you google something about 'why women like bad boys?' That might be feasible.
     
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  12. CleanWater

    CleanWater Independent Developer Veteran

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    Hi there @kovak, from your profile, it seemed for me that you also are from Brazil. If that's the case, I recommend you reading the books from Adriano Moura, like the Manual do Macho Alpha. :wink:

    BTW, don't ask me how I discovered these books... :rolleyes:
     
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  13. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    @VioletSpark well, that's how i've ended up in The Red Pill
     
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  14. mcoorlim

    mcoorlim Villager Member

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    Man, what people like is confidence. Confidence is sexy. "Bad boy arrogance" can be mistaken for confidence in a pinch, but people make all kinds of romantic mistakes, especially when they're inexperienced.

    Gotta make those mistakes to learn those painful lessons, though.
     
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  15. CleanWater

    CleanWater Independent Developer Veteran

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    Lol, you kinda resumed the entire book advices I suggested before in one single sentence. :mrsatan:

    According to the book author, women usually feel attracted for bad boys because they show this confidence trait, not because of their lack of integrity and aggressiveness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  16. VioletSpark

    VioletSpark Launcher of a Thousand Ships Veteran

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    @kovak Okay, well, just so you know, the Red Pill guys are kinda delusional when it comes to women in general- but especially when they talk about why women don't like nice guys. Their interpretation of "bad" tends to be "a guy who isn't me."

    I will not claim to speak for any other women- but for me personally:
    What attracted me to my guy was equality. For the first time in my life, I didn't have to pretend to be less intelligent/perceptive.
    And yeah, we argued. Because we could be honest with each other, and we could disagree without that killing our relationship.
     
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  17. mcoorlim

    mcoorlim Villager Member

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    One of the big problems with the Red Pill is that it comes from the flawed premise that women are some inscrutable exotic 'other' too fundamentally different from men to ever truly be understood. This is untrue. They're just people, and as complex and complicated as you yourself are. You can't really make a generalization about half the world's population and hope for it to be accurate. The idea that men are more interested in "romantic activities" faster isn't biological or psychological, it's social. Artificial. And in many cases, flat out wrong.

    But what matters here is the function the romance serves in the story of your game. Fictional romance is often very different from real world romance, the way real fights are different from cinematic fights, the way real police work is different from TV procedural police work. Real Life and Fiction differ because Fiction has to make sense, and Real Life does not.

    Do you want a romantic subplot? Do you want it to be something automatic that the player watches, or do you want to give the player the choice to pursue it? What obstacles stand in the way of these characters getting together? What reasons would each be reluctant to get involved with someone else they're otherwise interested in? What third parties will complicate things?

    The interesting part of fictional romance isn't the relationship, but what stands in the way of the relationship, the same way with any other quest. It's the journey, not the destination.

    But speaking of the destination... you need to plan out how it all works out. Are there multiple endings depending on player choice during the relationship storyline? Do they end up happily ever after, or just happy for now? Or maybe the entire attempt was doomed from the beginning, and the story is a tragedy?

    Lucky for you, Romance is the single most popular category of fiction in the world. Half of all book sales are romance books. So there's a lot of information out there about how to structure romance plotlines. Just google around.

    And while that's for fiction and not games, you can adapt it for RPG with a little effort.
     
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  18. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    I really need honest opinions about how women handle romance in their life. As a man i can understand my side and all the frustrations but how a real relationship is.

    My project won't have multiples endings w.e i want the romance to play some role in the plot cuz we tend to commit mistakes or not deppending on our personalities when the ones you love and what must be done are clashing.
     
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  19. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    I'll be honest, the biggest difference between fantasy romance and real life romance is that in fiction once the characters get together, everything is resolved, while anyone who has been in real relationships understands that once you get together is just the beginning of the challenges.

    Source: Been married for 17 years.
     
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  20. samkfj

    samkfj Bug Powder Veteran

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    I agree with lots of the posts on here, so I'll try to bring my own perspective on this too.

    Romance can result from many things. It is dependent on the characters, sure... but if what you're trying to accomplish is them having a bond, then that can be as easy or as complex as you want to make it.

    For your characters, would you personally want them to go beyond hooking up? Is it in their natures to do so, or maybe it isn't but maybe people change? Or--would it be commonplace for their personalities to just see it as a moment of passion?--As a one-night stand, something people do all the time?

    Let's say you don't want them to become something.

    It could be that the female enjoys the company of the guy, but only in a physical sense, or vice versa. Maybe he does fall for her, but she could care less about him, which could be a cause of strife for him; or vice versa. Could be that one, the other, or both begin to get closer as friends and realize that it was just a moment of passion, nothing comes from it, and it leads to nothing other than a deeper respect for one another. It could be on a whole other tangent and the girl falls for the guy, but he just wanted another notch in his belt, or subvert that and make it the girl who wanted the notch instead, leading to the other person to become distrustful or angry toward them. Maybe their hookup wasn't the best, it happens. Also, just because they hooked up once, doesn't mean they have to necessarily like each other too. People can have sex and hate each other at the same time... you just have to trust me on this.

    Now, let's say you want to have them become something.

    It could be that they realize that they're both in the same boat, and found comfort with each other. From the better parts of my relationships, comfort is the word I would use to describe the first feelings of growing love; past the liking stage, and way before the head over heels stage. This comfort can turn to romance (e.g. Maybe he brings her gifts once in a while, maybe she makes him meals once in a while, maybe they both take time away from the party and the quest for some together time, sexual or innocent.) After this romance time, it can build stronger if that's what you want. The attention, the comfort, the bonding, eventually it can turn to love. This does take time to develop, as it does in real life. Remember, you cannot fall in love with someone you aren't comfortable with.

    It could be that one, the other, or both find some common ground with each other past the hook up. Maybe a similar upbringing, interests, code of ethics; maybe they even bond over something they both hate. This can create comfort too, it feels better to speak to someone you can be yourself around rather than hiding behind a wall. Romance can be also one-sided for the most part; maybe one is more inclined to give their heart, but the other is less inclined to take it (e.g. doesn't want the responsibility, doesn't want to hurt the other, is emotionally withdrawn, is new to it, etc.) With a one-sided romance however, it can turn into a lot of angst, resentment and could even lead to backlash or just plain giving up and moving on. On the other side it could turn into something like Squall/Rinoa from FF8, but yeah that was to the extreme, and to be honest, a little bit annoying.

    I could really continue on with examples and stuff, but I'd be here for hours. Ask yourself this:

    - Is there a benefit to the story if they develop a romance, or is there a detriment if they do? If there is a benefit, is there also a risk associated, or a reason they shouldn't be romantic?--Or a twist in the works?

    - If things were to go romantic, and sour, what kind of repercussions could happen? Could it bring a world of pain to not just one or the other... but to everyone in the party?

    - How would the other characters respond to this? Is there another person with eyes for one or the other? Could this cause strife?

    - Are they willing to go the distance, for better or worse, until death?--Or is it just for fun?

    If you need any ideas or anything, hit me up, I'll do my best to help you if you need.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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