Recognizing the Villain

[Vox Novus]

Been awhile since I've made a discussion question, anyway something I was thinking about after watching some gameplay of FF XV.


How do you feel about a game where you see a character and right away you know that guy's the villain? Either they just have a really sinister look or in the case of XV they are just dressed really outlandish and stand out. I'm talking you recognize them way before they actually do anything that should establish them as the villain.


Do you feel there is a benefit to establishing that sort of visual connection easily? Or do you feel the plot suffers because the player lacks any surprise at events that establish that character as the villain?

 

[bgillisp]

I seem to recall old RPG's of the 80's used to do that, but then again, back then the plot was something like Evil Xanthar has summoned the demon Balthor. Only with the Holy Sword can we end their reign. Find the sword and bring peace to the land.


As for can it work now, I think it depends on how it was done. I actually have a game I hope to make one day where the party learns who the villain is of the story about 20% into the game, and I felt it worked well. As for how I handled it, most of the game was trying to get ahead of the villain, then ultimately stopping them. And, along the way you learned why they were doing it as well.

 

[Noobk]

I don't mind it. My best comparison (and my favorite villain) is Darth Vader, who pretty much screams "I will hurt your cat."


Announcing the villain does give you flash back options as far as a story might go. Flash back to before when the villain was a normal joe sort of thing. It also gives the player something to identify with early as evil and can set that extra emotion of distaste for the character.

 

[Crabs]

I  usually don't like when they make so clear that the person is the villain. They lose a good opportunity to create a plot twist. A well-executed plot twist can add so much to the game.

 

[Vox Novus]

I don't mind it. My best comparison (and my favorite villain) is Darth Vader, who pretty much screams "I will hurt your cat."


Announcing the villain does give you flash back options as far as a story might go. Flash back to before when the villain was a normal joe sort of thing. It also gives the player something to identify with early as evil and can set that extra emotion of distaste for the character.

Darth Vader is definitely an example of this, he's completely clad in black armor and is given no human representation because he's masked and armored; more machine than man it seems. He pretty much screams villain.

As for how I handled it, most of the game was trying to get ahead of the villain, then ultimately stopping them. And, along the way you learned why they were doing it as well.

My concern is less of introducing the villain early; as rather them introducing it in a way that doesn't promote the story. I'm talking simply seeing how a guy is dressed or his facial expressions and just knowing that's the villain instantly. Sort of like Kefka in Final fantasy VI to. He dresses like a deranged looking; sort of proper fantasy version of the Joker from batman but you need to get a bit into the game before he's revealed as the real villain. There's no surprise at his reveal as the villain; he's so outlandish and odd compared to the other characters around him its quite clear he's the guy that you have to beat. So much so that you wonder how everyone in the game doesn't see what you see.


Can there be benefit to that type of instant connection with the villain? Some plotlines might even have the villain seem to be a good guy at first but then reverse it on you, the effect is lost though because you could just tell that guy was already the villain.

 

[HexMozart88]

Often I don't really like it, because it's a little weird seeing a guy walking around in a cloak or something and beating the heck out of 'em. But, if you want to do it, I like dream sequences or seeing a familiar face. For an example, I have a guy who begins to feel sick because he goes to a neighbouring country and sees his brother, who he'd presumed dead, as the king. You can do something like that. I think it works, simply because you get a flashback opening in there that explains a bit more of the story.    

 

[Wavelength]

I think if you're going for a "Disney Villain" kind of mentality where the villain is just a (fun) personification of puppy-kicking evil malice, or you have a gameplay-oriented game and decided on creating a "Mechanics Villain" (e.g. Bowser and Neo Cortex - who serve as obstacles to be overcome more than true villainous forces in the story), then yes, go for it and make the villain really obvious by their appearance, voice, and/or name.  It helps to develop their character a bit more with what I presume is very limited time devoted to story development, and makes them slightly more memorable.


However, I highly recommend not doing this if you are trying to make your villains into deep, believable characters.  Even if you aren't planning on introducing a world-shattering twist where an apparent ally turns on you, it still helps to present villains as "characters" rather than simply as antagonists.  If the player can see your villain as a character with reasonable motives/actions/beliefs, even just for a few minutes, they can understand that villain much better.  They will feel a lot more when they see that villain commit evil deeds and when they have to fight them.  They will connect a lot more to that villain, just like they have connected to the heroes.


As always, also keep in mind that not all antagonists need to be villains at all.  Morally decent characters who don't commit villainous acts but have a good reason to be working against you can be really compelling as well (though frustrating if not given convincing motivations).

 

[PsychicToaster]

I take the "Not All Bad Guys Wear Black And Have 'Hello My Name Is Bad Guy' Stickers On" approach. I introduced a villain in one of my short stories in the first few pages. Rather than being an egomaniac bent on subjugating the citizenry through fear, he was a complex and even remorseful character, doing what he believed was necessary to follow his own code of ethics and preserve his principles. At one point, the protagonist is even assisted by the antagonist to escape a bad situation. The antagonist had no just cause to harm the protagonist in any way at that point. You never would have even recognized him as the villain early on. But the smaller conflicts that led to the discovery is why it worked out. Provided there's enough to keep a reader(or in this case, a player) interested, I find it perfectly acceptable to enshroud the central antagonist in mystery.


I enjoy characterizing villains. I love to explore the flaws of man and the unfortunate events that may lead to their hearts blackening, their minds twisting into an abyss of dark thoughts and selfish motivations, while still maintaining some shred of humanity and dignity. I also like writing characters that are demonstrably terrible people, because I don't think all villains need to be complex creatures. Sometimes they really are just avaricious or power mad people seeking to further their own gain and secure a higher place in society. Even still, everyone has something or someone dear to them. A crack in the armor somewhere. Bringing those things to light remind us that they are, or once were, human beings. G.R.R. Martin believes that even villains can be redeemed, to some degree, and if the circumstances are right. It's highly evident in his books, and I took that lesson to heart when I began to write more complex characters.

 

[Diretooth]

It depends heavily on the tone you want to set. In one of my projects, you have a very obvious villain figure who acts rather strangely when you first encounter them. Later, it's revealed that he's not actually the main villain, that the main villain has been in your party, using you to become the main villain. As you can see, I like to play with these concepts.


Sometimes, you just need a force to propel the plot forward, sometimes learning what the villain is is all the plot you need.

 

[Vox Novus]

@Diretooth I think that's a good twist on the scenario. Trying to anticipate that people will make assumptions based on how the character looks or acts and then using that to your advantage in telling the story. People jump to conclusions and what if the evil looking guy was really the guy that had your back all along.

 

[watermark]

Since we're talking about Disney villains, let's not forget Hans folks! The perfect surprise villain!


But I think this could be overdone. I remember playing one of them Tactics Ogre games forgot which, but there was just too much politics dialogue about some war and the countries involved. And the antagonists just don't seem all that evil, I didn't want to kill them at all. And that kinda made the game boring. There was no longer a clear purpose.

 

[Vox Novus]

@watermark Going back to my topic then, would some evil visual clue like an evil outfit or outlandish attitude then make all the difference in that scenario? It would still have the same type of dialogue; would just a look be enough to make you want to stop them? or do you mean that one character would have that clear disconnection to focus the player from the other more "boring/stiff" characters.


To me though that seems more a flaw of the writing/game rather than how an actual character is presented. It does raise an interesting point at the same time. 

 

[Milennin]

I prefer it when the game is being honest with me and makes the villain look obviously evil than that it tries to be """really smart""" and make him the person you never would have realistically guessed just to be different, lol. Then again, the story and stuff is generally at the bottom of my list when I play a game, so I don't really care that much. If the game wants to make the villain look super obviously evil, I'm totally fine with that.

 

[watermark]

@Vox Novus Good point! I think it's a combination of factors. Something like the following equation:


Evil Factor = Evil Deeds + Evil Look + Evil Feel


With 10 being highest, here are some examples, purely my opinion:


Darth Vader: 10 + 10 + 8     = 28


Joker: 10 + 8 + 10 = 28


Hannibal Lecter: 10 + 1 + 10 = 21


That villain from TV show Blacklist who is a copycat of Hannibal who I can't remember the name of: 10 + 1 + 1 = 12 


That villain in Captain America: Civil War movie who I can never remember the name of (goes to show how important evil look is): 10 + 1 + 1 = 12


So as you can see, assuming all of the villains above are equally evil in terms of what they did, the ones with better costumes are definitely more memorable in that I can remember their names. Now the Hannibal Lecter example is to show that someone who does not have an evil costume, I mean he's dressed as a gentlemen in standard prisoner clothes, can still be very scary if they somehow can project an evil "feel" or aura by superior acting or otherwise. The same concept character from Blacklist failed to present that same "feel" so a lot less menacing.


Also a counter example:


Dr. Evil: 3 (cause he's incompetent most of the time) + 10 + 1


Dr. Evil has an obvious Evil costume, but because he acts in a hilarious way, his evil costume isn't enough to make him seem evil.


Now that I think about it, another equation:


A Good Evil Costume = I can remember the villain's name.

 

[Vox Novus]

@watermark That's an interesting summation. I think you might win the Nobel prize in mathematics with that! Or at least the one in Game mathematics. 


There definitely seems to be legitimate reasons for having a villain have that instant villain look.


I think its important though to decide on how you want your villain to be used in your story. Don't dress a villain like Kefka from Final Fantasy VI and then write some huge twist where this guy betrays the party or turns out to be the real bad guy all along. I mean you can but the player will see it coming a mile away if you do that. 

 

[Basileus]

I think the better question here would be: "How do I want to introduce my villain/antagonist?"


In JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part I, the main villain Dio Brando is introduced making a flashy exit from a carriage (highlighting the series' campy style) immediately followed up with Dio kicking the hero's dog in the face. Dio's outfit may not be especially noteworthy, but his facial expression screams "BAD GUY" and just in case you missed that he kicks an innocent dog in the face.


In Star Wars Episode IV, Darth Vader makes his grand entrance decked out in black armor and a black faceless helmet, flanked by faceless mask-wearing Stormtroopers shooting sympathetic rebels without masks. Just in case his (awesome) outfit doesn't scream "EVIL" loud enough, he's introduced emotionlessly leading a total slaughter of people we are clearly meant to be rooting for.


In Final Fantasy VII, Sephiroth first makes his presence known when Cloud and co. are mysteriously released from the jail cells in Shinra HQ and follow a huge trail of blood up to President Shinra's office where he is slumped over his desk with Sephiroth's massive sword sticking out of his back. Good guys tend not to do that. The black trenchcoat is not helping his case either. But DAMN that's one hell of an entrance.


On the flip side, you get villains that we initial think of as "good" or at least "neutral" characters that we only ever realize are villains later on - people like Tyler Durden in Fight Club and Gordon Gecko in Wallstreet. They looked and act like ordinary people at first (more or less) and we are meant to sympathize with them at least a little before seeing just what horrible things they are willing to do when they cross the villain line.


Do you want a shocking entrance or a shocking plot twist? Letting the player know who the villain is the second they see them lets you really go wild with their introduction - you aren't trying to hide that they are a bad guy so you can devote everything to showing just how bad they are. If you want to conceal that a character is an antagonist, then that means you have to spend time actively deceiving the player about this character's true nature. It's fine if it suits the narrative and you want the player to sympathize with them. But if you want them to be seen as a villain from the start (even if you plan to characterize them and add some hidden depths later) then you probably shouldn't waste time and just make it really obvious how bad they are. Whether you do so by introducing them in a "Bad Guy" outfit or by having the protagonist first meet them knee-deep in a pile of innocent victims is up to you.

 

[Diretooth]

Sometimes, musical cues are useful in showing that someone is very definitely the bad guy. In Lost Odyssey, the main antagonist, Gongora, is treated to his own leitmotif that sounds rather sinister. It's an early clue as to his true intentions, as well as his fairly subtle design, as at first he seems a bit unscrupulous.


Similarly, Seymour Guado from FFX has a rather creepy theme when you interact with him. It practically screams 'Villain!'


I personally like subversions of the 'Obvious bad guy' thing that a lot of games do. The game, Nier, for instance, there is a fairly obvious antagonist in the Shadowlord, but the true villain of the game is very well hidden, quite literally in plain sight, and their actions are a subtle indication of their status.

 

[Caitlin]

One of my biggest weak points has to be villains, because I don't truly believe in 'evil' characters, only people who want something different than you do and are willing to do it anyway they can to accomplish that goal.  What I mean by that is that you have a character who wants goal X, and he's willing to murder, plot and hurt whoever he has to, in order to accomplish that goal.  This would, in fact, increase the 'villains' in stories, because the businessman, who wants to make this company millions of dollars and does so, by paying his employees cheap (unlivable wages), cuts corners and has unethical business practices could be seen as a villain, even if he isn't the main story villain.  Another sort of villain could be the local housewife, gossips, practically runs the neighborhood and if you don't behave like she says you should, can practically turn the whole neighborhood against your family.  I admit that these characters are not the main story line bad guys, but rather good side villains. 


Because I say that the one bad thing about stories these days is how they like to connect all the villains and bad situations to the main villain, which isn't realistic.  I mean, in the movies, "Lord of the Rings" they connected the snow storm to one of the villains and it was just a freaking snow storm, because of the time of year, not the villain. 


Another point, about villains is the importance of knowing who the villain is to begin with.  There are plenty of stories where you struggle to figure out who they are fighting against and the villain isn't so obvious.  That hurts stories as much as the 'this is the main villain in ALL the stories, no matter what happens'.  I don't like the Matrix for the reason that no matter what you say the characters going through, that stupid agent Smith was the bad guy in all the freaking movies. 


But I'll be honest, I hate the whole evil to be evil villain, but I really hate the we're building up the villain to be more human, yet, at the end, he's all you fight despite the fact that there is another villain you never deal with stories.  (Breath of Fire IV)

 

[Vox Novus]

@Basileus That's an interesting point. If you are going to introduce the villain in an obvious fashion, might as well dress them/make them look obviously like a villain. It will only enhance the experience. 

 

[Diretooth]

I mean, in the movies, "Lord of the Rings" they connected the snow storm to one of the villains and it was just a freaking snow storm, because of the time of year, not the villain. 

I will point out that in the movie, Saruman explicitly summoned the snowstorm to prevent the fellowship from having a comparatively easy way around a potentially dangerous location. The main characters were not stupid, especially Gandalf. Hell, he could have made it so there would be no snowstorm to stop them. As shown prior in the film, Saruman had defeated Gandalf, who only escaped because he was fortunate.


That aside, you do raise excellent points. A lot of people seem to ignore pragmatism when it comes to villains an antagonists. Unless the method for summoning the bigger bad requires causing as much chaos as possible, there's little reason to have your hand in everything unless you're explicitly against the main characters or those places had something you needed.


As a counterpoint, more of an examination for reasoning, having a single villain is more simple, it's something you're guaranteed people will understand, even if the overarching plot is a bit more complex than people are prepared for. I'll raise an example of multiple villains in a movie: Spiderman 3, which had Venom, Sandman, and Green Goblin as primary antagonists. The more villains you have, especially ones who are not explicitly working together, the longer the story has to be to make sure all of their stories are fully fleshed out. It's not considered a good movie because all of these plotlines clash and mingle in various different ways.


In movies, having a more complex villain or group of villains makes for a longer, more complex story. Movies are generally constrained to a certain length, and if the people paying for the movie being made are not sure a longer movie, even a multi-part movie, will be accepted by the general public, they won't support it and make it shorter, thus making it impossible to fully explore the themes of the story. Games have more freedom in that regard, they can have as many disks as needed to explain the story, but again, are constrained by the people paying for its creation. Thus, the problem becomes two-fold: Too much complexity can turn away the people for whom the story is being told, and can have the people paying you for making the game in the first place force you to make the game simpler, if you rely on their cash to make the game.


Another factor: people like consistency. If a player has to wade through multiple mini plots to attain a single goal, they'll accuse the game of being unfocused. With this lack of focus, they lose interest or lose track of what's going on. Thus the problem become three-fold: Lack of interest, players telling other players not to play the game because nobody knows what's going on anymore.


Having a singular overarching villain makes things simpler, easier to follow. Having more villains, especially ones that aren't explicitly working together, calls more more complex storytelling.