Recommend me hard turn based RPG that don't rely on grinding or RNG

[xdan]

There are two things I hate on a RPG:
-Grinding.
-Depending on luck.

Most hard turn based RPG are considered hard because they involve a lot of either. Nothing wrong if you personally like that, but I'm looking for something different. I want games that rely heavily on strategy, that reward your comprehension of the game's mechanics and that force you to plan your every move in battle. Can you recommend me turn based games that suit this description? Thank you in advance

Btw don't recommend me TBS like Fire Emblem and such, I mean RPG as in the kind of game you do with RPG Maker.

 

[lianderson]

Well, there is my game. You can kill a lot of stuff stronger than you if you know what to do. And since there's so much to do and explore, the grind aspect isn't really grinding at all. (unless you´re on hard or nightmare) There´s a free demo of it here: https://lianderson.itch.io/wooden-ocean

There´s also Umbral Souls from my friend Wheelman. It also follows what you´re looking for, if not more so. Definitely check it out: https://rpgmaker.net/games/8865/

As for non-RM games, there´s the Persona series. While I´ve yet to play them, I hear they´re very strategic for a turn based RPG.

 

[bgillisp]

Eh, stay away from Persona if you hate luck. Persona 5 is a LOT of pray to the RNGGoodess with the changes to the system. For example:

Spoiler

-Maxed out Persona links only give you an Evade skill, which ups the odds of dodging the skill you are weak to. So now its hope the RNG likes you, else the enemy gets a bonus turn. And since you have to have a party of 4, someone is usually weak to the enemy skill late game, so...
-Way too many enemies in the early dungeon get criticals way too often. Unlucky roll of the dice = total party wipe.
-Most later dungeons have one - two ultra hard enemies with no weakness to exploit, so you have NO chance to take them out before they spam Medigo (or insert other high level spell). (And before someone says it, I know of the strategy to use status ailments to stop that, but I always missed with them. So again, RNG dependent)
-Bosses have an ultra skill that IF they happen to use, its a total party wipe on Normal, even if you guard. No idea how anyone beat any of the bosses without grinding in that game. And I think all guide writers must have grinded hard, as I was always 3 - 4 levels behind their levels after about the 3rd dungeon, and that was with me fighting every monster I came across too.

So, yeah, Persona 5 is awful if you want to avoid grinding and RNG, as that game is nothing but grinding and RNG.

 

[xdan]

Well, there is my game. You can kill a lot of stuff stronger than you if you know what to do. And since there's so much to do and explore, the grind aspect isn't really grinding at all. (unless you´re on hard or nightmare) There´s a free demo of it here: https://lianderson.itch.io/wooden-ocean

There´s also Umbral Souls from my friend Wheelman. It also follows what you´re looking for, if not more so. Definitely check it out: https://rpgmaker.net/games/8865/

As for non-RM games, there´s the Persona series. While I´ve yet to play them, I hear they´re very strategic for a turn based RPG.

Heh heh heh.

I find this really funny because a year ago I posted this on your game's thread https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/the-wooden-ocean.65130/#post-664187

I was very interested in the "Souls-Like" brand because I thought it might mean that it would be hard and you would rely on strategy rather than grinding. In the end I didn't buy it because I had no guarantee it would be like that, but I should have checked the demo. Definitely trying it now, thought.

I will also look onto your friend's game. Thank you for your response!

Edit: why isn't the demo on Steam thought?

 

[lianderson]

It´s a huge hassle, so I haven't put it on there yet. Rather be mapping at the moment. (making a new town as we speak)

 

[Matseb2611]

From RM games, I remember Northwall had some very nice, strategic battles, especially the boss fights. I also remember I found Eremidia Dungeon: Skyward Temple to be really strategic and had great combat mechanics. There's also one of my own short games, which I made specifically with a challenge aspect in mind - Harbingers of Woe.

From non-RM games, Lethal RPG: War, has a pretty great combat that will keep up the challenge, especially in the latter areas of the game.
I also had a blast with Darkest Dungeon, but it involves a fair amount of reliance on RNG, so not sure if this will be up your alley.

 

[xdan]

From RM games, I remember Northwall had some very nice, strategic battles, especially the boss fights. I also remember I found Eremidia Dungeon: Skyward Temple to be really strategic and had great combat mechanics. There's also one of my own short games, which I made specifically with a challenge aspect in mind - Harbingers of Woe.

From non-RM games, Lethal RPG: War, has a pretty great combat that will keep up the challenge, especially in the latter areas of the game.
I also had a blast with Darkest Dungeon, but it involves a fair amount of reliance on RNG, so not sure if this will be up your alley.

Thank you! I'll check them out.

 

[dahlys]

Er... Star Wars KOTOR had a turn based system I really liked. Grinding doesn't mean much with a level cap of 20 and a lot of enemies experience permadeath.

 

[xdan]

Er... Star Wars KOTOR had a turn based system I really liked. Grinding doesn't mean much with a level cap of 20 and a lot of enemies experience permadeath.

That sounds interesting fo sure. Thank you!

 

[Failivrin]

Final Fantasy 4. In my opinion it was way more challenging than other Final Fantasy games--and in this case challenge is separate from difficulty. The game wasnt too hard; it just forced you to use your brain in every single battle because even the minor enemies can kill you quickly. Also the bosses each have unique gimmicks which you have to figure out. Gimmicks are usually related to the bosses' personality, so FF4 challenges you to pay attention to the story when you plan your strategy.
Caveat: I played the DS port. Dont know whether it differs much from the original.

 

[xdan]

Final Fantasy 4. In my opinion it was way more challenging than other Final Fantasy games--and in this case challenge is separate from difficulty. The game wasnt too hard; it just forced you to use your brain in every single battle because even the minor enemies can kill you quickly. Also the bosses each have unique gimmicks which you have to figure out. Gimmicks are usually related to the bosses' personality, so FF4 challenges you to pay attention to the story when you plan your strategy.
Caveat: I played the DS port. Dont know whether it differs much from the original.

Thank you, but I already played this one XD