Regarding Future RPG Maker MV macOS Support

ロリ先輩

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As the main reason for this is Apple doesn't support OpenGL anymore, does that mean MZ doesn't use OpenGL? I have opened and tested my MV project in MZ before (as is well known in the community, this is very possible) and it all works actually, exporting included.

Does that mean I could evade this issue by using this technique of opening and exporting my game through MZ? (In theory i mean, I'm okay with this method not being officially supported of course).
Newer versions of the nwjs should be using updated versions of Chromium/Blink that support WebGL on Metal. In theory, you could use the version of nwjs that ships with MZ, or upgrade your copy of nwjs yourself.

Regarding earlier comments related to Macs and Gaming PCs, that can potentially change in the future: The performance of the M1 series of chips generally outpaces the Nintendo Switch and is close in performance to Playstation 4. While it's certain that it really won't be a "AAA" gaming device, iOS is one of the largest gaming platforms right now in userbase, and anyone developing for games natively for iOS going forward also gets the ability to run it on all current generation and upcoming Macs at no additional effort (should they choose to make their iOS game available on macOS).
 

HiddenAlchemist

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I guess the only question I have regarding this is if Mac users can still play games in a browser, such as on an Itch.io game page. I know that I am working on a project alongside a friend who uses a Mac, and it would really suck for them if they couldn't whatsoever play what we're making.
 

Touchfuzzy

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I wouldn't use the "1 in 10 PCs is a Mac" cause that doesn't really measure well what percentage of people within that group game.

A better statistic would be percent market share of Steam Users. On Steam, roughly 97% of users use a variety of Windows, 2% use some variety of Mac (only 1.4% of which use the versions not compatible with MV), and 1% use Linux. (roughly)
 
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I wouldn't use the "1 in 10 PCs is a Mac" cause that doesn't really measure well what percentage of people within that group game.

A better statistic would be percent market share of Steam Users. On Steam, roughly 97% of users use a variety of Windows, 2% use some variety of Mac (only 1.4% of which use the versions not compatible with MV), and 1% use Linux. (roughly)

But if also selling on the Apple App store instead of just Steam, the pool of customers with Mac would naturally increase by significant numbers.

On a quick search, I found a 2016 article that analyzes the shares of what sells on the App store, and games take the lion's share by far.


4 years later in 2020, games generate more revenue on the Apple App store than Google Play.


I feel that there is a lot of untapped potential in the market of Mac gamers, but the $99 ANNUAL fee for selling on the App store probably scares away a lot of potential indie devs.

For RPG Maker games, which probably wouldn't be as resource-intensive as something like a recently published Final Fantasy game, I think that the number of potential Mac customers might be that much greater, since the majority of Macs aren't dedicated gaming platforms but people will still want games to keep them entertained.

As such, I believe that with a game that has a high enough quality, high enough price point, and well-planned marketing, it's very possible to do well enough among Mac users that it's worth the time and expense.
 
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Touchfuzzy

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I mean, also if you are selling on Apple Store you are paying a $99 annual fee. I think picking up MZ isn't a big deal if you are already paying a hundred a year anyway, and is your best choice if you want to make a game for Mac.

Also, talking about the App Store you are much more talking about iOS, not MacOS.
 

Featherbrain

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So... what is the actual issue here? If it can be fixed for MZ, why--specifically--can it not be fixed for MV? Or, how would end-users fix it themselves? Is it a matter of updating the NWJS version, or...?

Aside from greater stability for larger projects and QoL features, another reason to switch from MV to MZ, especially for Mac users who might upgrade to a new computer during the next few years.

That's one way of putting it. Much like, when the mafia busts up your storefront, it's another reason to pay for the mafia's protection. >_>

Based on this precedent, shelling out for MZ (plus paid plugins, plus actual work of porting WIPs to new engine) might solve this problem... for now. Until a "new" RPG Maker is pushed out and suddenly it's not worth the staff time to support your version. From my perspective, this looks more like another reason not to buy MZ, or RPG Maker engines in general.
 

slimmmeiske2

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So... what is the actual issue here? If it can be fixed for MZ, why--specifically--can it not be fixed for MV? Or, how would end-users fix it themselves? Is it a matter of updating the NWJS version, or...?
MZ uses WebGL, while MV uses OpenGL, which is what Apple is deprecating. As for why they won't be able to fix this:
Unfortunately, the amount of work it would take to update MV to be compatible with the latest versions of macOS would not only be incredibly time consuming, but also potentially break large portions of the fan-made plugins around the web that are unlikely to be updated anymore as most active plugin developers have moved forward to MZ.
 

ChampX

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If one were to force MV to run in WebGL mode via plugin, would that get around these issues? Or is it instead interfacing to OpenGL instead of Metal on MacOS platforms?
 

Pwa

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If one were to force MV to run in WebGL mode via plugin, would that get around these issues? Or is it instead interfacing to OpenGL instead of Metal on MacOS platforms?

Tried many things in order to get MV games to run on Big Sur 11.4, nothing worked, until we realized that seemingly not even MZ games could run on it
 

Tea's Jams

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You're experiencing that MZ games aren't working with Big Sur 11.4? I would like to get more information about this. What project version did you test with? Mac compatibility was patched with the 1.2.0 version of MZ. I would guess that games made with previous versions of MZ will run into issues, but games that are updated to version 1.2.0 or later should work. I'm very interested to know if this is true. :LZSsmile:
 
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Pwa

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You're experiencing that MZ game aren't working with Big Sur 11.4? I would like to get more information about this. What project version did you test with? Mac compatibility was patched with the 1.2.0 version of MZ. I would guess that games made with previous versions of MZ will run into issues, but games that are updated to version 1.2.0 or later should work. I'm very interested to know if this is true. :LZSsmile:

Newly created default project with MZ 1.3.2 and deployed with MZ 1.3.2 as well.
 

Tea's Jams

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I don't own a Mac, so I couldn't test it myself, but @KV_Kingdom was very helpful in helping me test this, thank you so much KV!

He is using the very latest version of Mac's Big Sur, version 11.5.2. He deployed a 1.3.2 new project and it was playable.

There are a couple things I can think of that may be causing your issue, but I'm not sure as I'm not a Mac user. Maybe you need to update to Big Sur 11.5.2 if you haven't already? Are you deploying from Windows? If so I believe you have to use a different process than simply hitting the Mac deploy button.

I'm sure those with Mac devices have more experience and can offer better advice for solving the issue though.
 

Pwa

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I am indeed deploying from Windows, as I do not own a Mac myself and my friend who does own a Mac with Big Sur does not own MZ, I did not expect that to be an issue, what would be this different process to follow?
 

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I not entirely sure off hand, I would search these forums. The last time I deployed to Mac was in 2017.
 

Pwa

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I am indeed deploying from Windows, as I do not own a Mac myself and my friend who does own a Mac with Big Sur does not own MZ, I did not expect that to be an issue, what would be this different process to follow?

So we tried something else, my friend does not own MZ but he does own MV, so we just tried to have him deploy our MV game from his Big Sur Mac and the game works just fine on Big Sur when done that way.
 

ChampX

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Got my hands on a Macbook with Big Sur recently and played around with MV deployment a little bit. Anything from MV 1.5 and below seems to give a segfault error at the nwjs level. Deploying a game from MV 1.6 does work, however the game doesn't seem to be stable. This seems to be true even for a minimum project. The game may run fine with no issues at 60fps, but at times the game display may go black (sound and input still work), or instead the game may just quit randomly with no error. Sometimes launching fails silently to.

So MV games will technically run on newer versions of macOS, but it likely won't be an enjoyable experience for your players. You will have to ask yourself if this tradeoff is worth it or not. I haven't tested editor usability yet though.
 

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