Releasing small RPG Maker games occasionally for profit

JosephSeraph

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I have little experience as a commercial games developer, but from a creative's POV I'll give my pros and cons for either approach. But first, oh boy, this thread opener sure had some interesting things to dissect.

Can you create good, short RPG Maker games and release them occasionally for constant profit?
yes

Since RPG Maker provides many assets and you can buy resources like graphics, sounds, and plugins for cheap, then maybe your expenses won't be big.
you have to go for the really fancy, expensive tiers for your assets to outweigh the human cost in developing a game. if you're spending under 1k usd, that's probably cheap. especially since one asset can work for several games.

Can you make a living off of this or do you still gotta work?
I'm sorry, but this part made me spill soda all over my keyboard. lmao

But, uh, back to the creative thing.
While I partially agree with @orange~ when it comes to quality over quantity -- actually, not partially, I fully agree -- releasing smaller games has a ton of creative benefits over larger ones. And it does not at all mean lower quality. In fact, @orange~ 's logic here works in the opposite direction too: quality over length. length, after all, is a form of quantity.

Now, creating multipler smaller games will drastically change a lot of things in your creative process. So it depends on the type of creator that you are, and the audience and experience you're trying to deliver. A larger, richer game, full with details and subplots and an immersive world to engage with, with emergent mechanics to uncover... That takes a lot of work, and the results are often worth it. Some of the greatest games fit exactly this, and although indie games don't necessarily fit that bill all the time, a ton of the really powerful ones do. And I think @orange~ 's own works are a good example of that. Beautifully rich and layered.

It allows you to create this large, imposing structure the player can house themselves into. With a world of themes and lore to explain and engage with. Beautiful. But that's only one approach. Think of it as, idk, X-Files: The mythology arc episodes. (If they were good. Chris Carter sucks, but he fooled us for a good few seasons)

Now when it comes to smaller games, the inverse becomes a thing, especially when smaller doesn't necessarily refer to game length but development time and resources: You have less to work with. It isn't an imposing, tall structure for the player to find shelter and wonder, anymore. It's a... House. Could be a cozy cabin in the woods, with a fireplace, temporary but memorable respite for a wintery night. But it could also just be that really unforgettably sh*tty hostel.

I'd draw a parallel to X-Files's Monster of the Week episodes. Or Sailor Moon's. (I don't watch many shows.) I would argue X-Files's strongest episodes are the MoTWs. They're short, sweet. Arcs that resolve in 1h, exploring themes not usually explored in the main myth arc. Exploring new character dynamics that aren't usually present. They're out of the box, experimental. They have less budget than the bombastic season ending double-episodes, but make up for it in sheer theming and execution. Particularly, I loved that episode where Scully got a tattoo. The circus episode. There's a lot of strong, memorable MoTW episodes in the X-Files, they start, do their thing, then they end... But often leaving you with something to think in the meanwhile.

I think the same logic can be applied to games. It can work, it can fail. Something similar I saw recently was the Voice of Cards series: 3 small JRPGs with modestly scoped stories, a lot of shared assets and gameplay. Each was moderately expensive too, at a $20 price tag. I wound up only buying the first, but that's because I'm in an extraordinarily bad financial situation, otherwise I'd have gobbled up the other two, as I've loved the first game.

The benefits of this approach can be easily seen with VoC: You can keep a consistent workflow between smaller releases. Reuse the engine, reuse the development logic, some math. Have that be your template, and refine it with each subsequent release. And by releasing a larger number of smaller projects, you have more space to play around with different concepts and themes, without necessarily making your game a theme salad. So say you release 6 games in a year: They can all share some gameplay elements, code, you keep improving your workflow... But you're also allowed to explore wildly different themes and ideas on each. If one flops, it's fine, the other can make up for it. None of them have necessarily the same potential to be deep, beloved classics like a larger, deeper game could, but the chance of one of them getting the spotlight is a bit bigger than a single one would be. The momentum keeps going.

Creatively, this is an approach that can keep your mind fresh.
If you can pull off half-decent planning and aren't overly ambitious with the scope of your projects, I definitely think creating a steady output of smaller games can be very rewarding, creatively. and logic would imply that money would follow!


God, this post could've been a whole lot smaller...
 

KawaiiKid

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I've seen this same question in so many circles I'm in, the last being a fantasy novel authors forum.

You need to ask yourself why you want to do this. And I can guarantee you, the answer will be along the lines of not wanting to invest a ton of time into creating a game with the possibility of making 0 profit. It's something that runs through every novice creator's mind at some point.

You just need to ask yourself this. Would you buy a final fantasy game that was released as 5 hour chunks you had to wait 6 months in between before the next one would come out?

I think the only way this is a good idea is if you finished a full fledged game with all it's content AND it was full length. Then later on you added on additional addendum content as chapters if you wanted that added things like post story campaigns, flash back campaigns, etc.
 

JosephSeraph

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Would you buy a final fantasy game that was released as 5 hour chunks you had to wait 6 months in between before the next one would come out?
Personally no, but I would a Voice of Cards, despite its very major pacing flaws.
I would KILL for more bite-sized games from the same team as Helen's Mysterious Castle.

Not every game needs to be an epic saga. By the way, many of the classic survival horror masterpieces are smaller than "5 hour chunks" !

Since you're a novelist, let me put it this way: There's space both for Lord of The Rings (1214 pages) and Carrie (199 pages).

Both for Final Fantasy VII and Parasite Eve. etc etc
 

Nenen

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Certainly quality ought to dictate price point, and that is sort of the point I'm driving at: Omori and Fear & Hunger are high-production, max effort projects on Steam, and they're both priced at that range. I reckon it's possible for someone to churn out a project with enough production to justify a higher price tag, and I may be compelled to cough up the dough for it, but I would absolutely not touch a lower-effort project priced anywhere near these games.

I would like to add that I think both of those games could easily sell for $20+, (and if they want to retain the market of those who wouldn't pay as much, just put them on good sales to reach the lower pricetags)

Also @JosephSeraph has a really good point, high length doesn't mean higher quality (often times it just means more padding)
And If a developer has the skill to make things fast and high quality, all the more true.
 

orange~

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@JosephSeraph makes good points. Episodic releases or smaller releases can definitely work too. But the quality has to be there imo. A game development should always start from a good idea. You have an idea that you think is worth showing to people. Just having a good story can be this, an unique gameplay gimmick can equal quality, exploring a theme in meaningful way, unique aesthetic and so on.

If you're just releasing games to get money and quantity is your driving factor, it's going to show in the final product and creative field might not be the best route to go for financially. There are easier avenues to making money than games anyway.
 

Indinera

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There are easier avenues to making money than games anyway.

Actually for people whose main skills are creativity and imagination, I haven't found much better ways than indie games to use and benefit from these skills, including financially.
That's assuming you do actually create, complete and release games in the long run.
 

JosephSeraph

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And back to my novel analogy, my grandma used to be obssessed with those really cheap and dirty romance booklets that would sell at every corner. Mother hates them and speaks with a well-humoured disdain.
1684076311815.png

So to that I add; There's place for The Lord of the Rings, Carrie AND all of the Barbaras and Sabrinas out there. In fact, this is sort of a side tangent but I've seen really interesting explorations on the world of "girl games" back in the pre-smartphone era, and they were wild, you know? Many were cashgrabs in a sense, but also really interesting. And if we talk cashgrabs, well, bring the pitchforks and let's poke idk Lego games dry. Fifa. I don't think the bar needs to be that high; People should have the right to try and fail, or try and succeed. Oftentimes what cites what is quality or not is beyond objective effort, or even an objective set of quality measurements.

But there's the other side, that of how individual works are the vertices that shape an industry. And with each new work, that market is changed slightly, oftentimes in ways that negatively impact other creators, so there's also that to keep in mind.

Ultimately, my view as a creator is that I equally find value in the pursuit of small and big projects. And as a working adult, is that both methods are feasible and you don't have to be the Stephen King of videogames to deserve to make a living. At the same time, one must wield their agency as an author in a responsible manner, so as to not negatively affect their peers.

As to whether a series of small releases can be successful or not, there's no lack of evidence proving that it can, neither is there a lack of examples of catastrophic failures to show the risks of that approach.

On a personal note, Scope Creep is something so common within game developers. And young developers with overambitious ideas. I find incentivizing smaller scoped endeavours a really healthy mindset we should have as a community. And as a PLAYER, and reader, and watcher etc. I am of the demographic that gets immediately put off by long playtimes, large-volume novels or series with countless seasons and episodes.
 

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With the various prices being discussed here I'd like to point out that Steam allows you to have region specific prices.
I'd personally only consider purchasing a short RPG Maker game for 1-3 USD max, ESPECIALLY if it were built with resource packs. Just consider: Fuller experiences with completely original productions like OMORI, Fear & Hunger are priced at 7-10 USD, and RPG Maker classics Ib, To the Moon, are in the 2 USD and lower bracket.
Ib and To the Moon are currently 10-12 USD for me.
Omori is at about 18 USD.

Region specific prices complicates discussions of pricing a fair bit.

P.s. For devs here who have games on Steam. I recommend you check up on the region specific prices every now and then. (I personally do it once per year)
 

Avery

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I guess the main question is, if you can make games that enough people want to buy. Some people may be able to make a buisness out of game making, others aren't.
I haven't seen any finished games from you yet, so before you ask if you can do that for a living, the question is: can you finish a game and get an audience for it?
Basically, you need to be able to plan a game, bring it to life and not to forget: do a lot of marketing. There is no clear no, but also no clear yes, as if you can succeed a lot depends on you. Can someone live on making and selling maker games? Yes. Can you? I don't know.
 

sabao

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P.s. For devs here who have games on Steam. I recommend you check up on the region specific prices every now and then. (I personally do it once per year)
I forgot about this! I apologize for the oversight. Let me amend my earlier statement!

When releasing a lower-production, lower commitment project, very carefully consider how you're pricing the thing. Consumers may be less inclined to purchase at a price point approximate to other games. But yes, also be considerate of regional pricing.

I wonder why Japan has these games priced so low?
 

Zeriab

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I probably noticed because I recently was contacted about the price of an RM game on steam in Turkish Lira being very low. (Dunno why they contacted me rather than the actual dev)
We can look at the Turkish Lira compared to the USD over time. Here's a screenshot of the last 5 years according to Google.
1684129903817.png

The value of a Turkish Lira is pretty much 25% of what it was 5 years ago. Keeping the Turkish Lira price the same for a game that was released 5 years ago is essentially as having a 75% price reduction for Turkey.

Interestingly the GDP of Turkey seems to have increased quite a bit. Source: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/turkey/gdp_per_capita_ppp/
1684130285117.png
Note that is measure is in USD.


Some platforms doesn't support regional prices. If you are selling a product on multiple platforms you can end up having significant price differences. This is something that can generate complains. We have seen this a fair few times with RPG Maker Unite (doesn't have regional pricing on Unity Asset Store), a product that's slightly more expensive than RPG Maker MZ in the US region.
 

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Did you forget about me? ^^
I made Millennium in one month and a half and it was definitely very sellable.

Isn't Millennium made in 2014 or something? Keep in mind that back in 2012-2016 the indie game market was growing really fast. If you entered the market at that time and accumulated large amount of followers you are more likely to do better than those who enters the market in 2023 and have zero followers.

If you enter the market now with zero follower nor established IP you will need to face countless competitiors. The chance of getting market attention now will be several times harder than 2014.

A few strategies that I know of:

1) r18+ game market....from my observation r18+ gamers don't care about game quality as much. So you may have a chance. Although r18+ market is also very very saturated so you need to find your niche in this area too.....

2) Focus on unique gameplay that hasn't been done before so you don't have to compete with anybody. For example: Vampire Survivors is a very popular low budget game(186k reviews on Steam) that became popular because of the addictive gameplay. If your gameplay is unique and different from everyone else, you may get attention.

But that means RPG Maker wouldn't be the ideal engine for this kind of game.....since you may want to build gameplay from scratch in this case.

3) If you are successful in a different area, such as being a well-known writer or artist, you may be able to use your IP or follower and sell your games to your fans.

If you aren't making r18+ games, don't have an IP nor followers, and your gameplay isn't unique, and your game has low budget/quality.....the chance of being successful will be extremely low IMO.
 
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Indinera

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Isn't Millennium made in 2014 or something?

2009 ^^
It was actually profitable from day 1 with just the sales from my website. No need for Steam! B):rock-right:
 

Tamina

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2009 ^^
It was actually profitable from day 1 with just the sales from my website. No need for Steam! B):rock-right:
Wow, that was a REALLY good timing to enter the indie game market, congrats!
 

Indinera

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Thanks, but I don't think it was a matter of timing. I've been continuously making and releasing games since 2001.
If anything, I had a dreadful timing, since I took my retirement in 2005 (therefore not releasing any game in 2006-07), exactly the year RPG Maker XP got released. These are the only two years I haven't released something since 2001.
 

Tamina

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Thanks, but I don't think it was a matter of timing.

At least in the space of indie games, I think timing does matter. There are several indie developers did quite well and grow extremely fast about 10 years ago, their growth has been stagnant or decline in the recent years.

Of course hard work still matter, I wasn't trying to say whoever that was successful in the past never worked hard. But I would also consider the number of competition in the field business, which is a challenge that any business needs to face.

Therefore, if someone needs business advice, I wouldn't tell them to ignore current market situation completely. This sounds very risky tbh.
 

Indinera

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Some people do get a lucky break, but that wasn't me. I've just been extremely constant over more than two decades.
In my opinion if I started now, I would just try to replicate my 2009 year, when I tried to catch up with the two years I had stupidly lost, and released 6 big games (well more like 3 big and 3 normal ones). And if it wouldn't be enough, I'd try to repeat that over a couple more years. Eventually it all adds up. Of course, it's not easy to release many good games in such a short timespan, but the OP's idea isn't bad in itself, I personally just wouldn't want to make them short. I don't like short games.
 
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Avery

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And still, you are one of the few successful people. I would never say that was not due to hard work and skill, but timing and therefore to a certain degree luck with doing the right thing at the right time can make a huge difference. You already had a reputation and at that time frame not many RM devs were even thinking about going commercial. I joined the coms in 2011, and at that point no commercial projects were going on on that board at all, most resources had no terms regarding commercial because noone really thought about it.

Plus, there is the personal limitation. Sure YOU could release that amount of games and had the capacities to do so, but that is something that just not everybody will be able to. You need endurance, motivation, skill or at least the resources to aquire them or outsource them, ideas, ... and that on a daily base. That is also why I said I have not seen a game from him yet - some people make their first game commercial... but there are many more people saying they make their first game commercial and never getting anywhere. To know wheather commercial game making is a thing for you, you better know if you even can make - and FINISH - games.

While it is not a perfect analogy, imagine someone like George Clooney gave the advice "Yeah sure, acting is a great carreer, go for it. I did it, so you can do so, too!" While not impossible, it might not be likely either ;3

Fun story: one guy at a rl game jam tried to impress me (he actually tried to hit on me) by telling me how he was about to become a game dev and found his own game studio. And when I saw what he delivered during the jam and what he was talking, I was reminded of all the posts of "I will found my own studio"-people that I came across in all these years. And most were just talking and had no clue what they even talked about and if he was not already pretty creepily hitting on me, that talk killed any interest in hanging out with him.
 

Indinera

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Plus, there is the personal limitation. Sure YOU could release that amount of games and had the capacities to do so, but that is something that just not everybody will be able to. You need endurance, motivation, skill or at least the resources to aquire them or outsource them, ideas, ... and that on a daily base. That is also why I said I have not seen a game from him yet - some people make their first game commercial... but there are many more people saying they make their first game commercial and never getting anywhere. To know wheather commercial game making is a thing for you, you better know if you even can make - and FINISH - games.

That much is true!

As for timing, I guess my "luck" was just to be around in the RM2K days, circa 2001 (year of my first release).
Truly, I haven't experienced much good luck beyond that. I have, however, experienced a lot of bad luck.
But that was then, this is now. I'm not starting anymore, quite the contrary, so I'm just trying to stick to my work philosophy and what works for me. You're right, people need to try, experiment, and find out what works for them - if anything.
 

Tamina

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In my opinion if I started now, I would just try to replicate my 2009 year, when I tried to catch up with the two years I stupidly lost, and released 6 big games (well more like 3 big and 3 normal ones).

Sure...But how can you prove that if you start from scratch in 2023 with zero followers, and you make the exact same games with the same speed, you'll get the exact same income per year? You keep saying "make games fast" is the key but I am not convinced.

That does not mean "make games fast" is not a functional strategy by itself. If your game has an interesting main selling point and people like it you can still build a fan base with fast releases. But thats "has an interesting main selling point" that's selling the game, not "make games fast".

For example, I know plenty of r18+ developers who releases cheap games fast and made tons of money. But it is r18+ content selling the game, not the speed itself.

IMO the cons of "make games fast" strategy means you'll ended up having tons of similar products in the market, if the market isn't growing pretty soon it'll become even more saturated.

I guess my "luck" was

Being able to make decisions and work fast then enter a market on the right time isn't "luck", it's a very valuable skill :p.

No need to feel offended about this :p
 
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An optimal price for an indie game on Steam also needs to be accompanied by an optimal sales discount %. For a solo indie game, I think the optimal price is where it should be low enough that a single Steam card can be used to buy it, after tax. A few cents the wrong direction can potentially mean someone who was gifted a Steam card can't buy the game, then picks something else to buy.
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