Releasing small RPG Maker games occasionally for profit

[Indinera]

No need to feel offended about this

Luck isn't a friend so I don't like it attached to my name

Sure...But how can you prove that if you start from scratch in 2023 with zero followers, and you make the exact same games with the same speed, you'll get the exact same income per year? You keep saying "make games fast" is the key but I am not convinced.

I don't know what would happen to be honest. It's always difficult to speculate. I would have the novelty factor working in my favor, plus the energy and motivation of youth. I would certainly want to use that!
All I know is that 2009 was NOT a golden era for indie devs and game making, there were very few devs making a living out of their work back then.
The real golden era is probably 2014-2016 with the advent of Steam and Kickstarter, but the former was never my main card (I was already doing fine without Steam), and the latter I didn't even use - ever.

 

[JosephSeraph]

Plus, there is the personal limitation. Sure YOU could release that amount of games and had the capacities to do so, but that is something that just not everybody will be able to. You need endurance, motivation, skill or at least the resources to aquire them or outsource them, ideas

That's why I think it's not (just) luck. Consistency and perseverance is a very difficult thing to pull off. I could say I'm unlucky to not have these things (and I am, as well as many others; one of the things that allow you to be constant and perseverant is someone else shouldering that burden for you, a luxury I and many others don't have)
At the same time I know if I managed to pull myself together and be more consistent... This topic resonates a lot with me. As a personal anecdote: I often compare myself to one of my great friends, whom is a lot less bold than I am, but more consistent. When we traveled, I was the one pushing for him to try new things. when he was tired of his job and wanted to quit, I'd say "you've saved more than enough, just quit and start your own company!"
Eventually he would go on to buy his family a house, save over a million brl, build his cozy little home studio, lead a very comfortable life... Still at his same job for over a decade, now.
Consistent. Afraid of taking risks, but resilient and persistent. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I will take risks. Unabashedly. I got robbed once at a town far from home, just decided to go and draw caricatures to make my money back and go back home. Unafraid of trying out new things. But... So, I don't know. Not sure where I wanna get but to sum it up, anything else aside, I deeply respect anyone's ability to remain consistent over a large period of time. I try to develop this skill for myself, but find myself lacking. One day I'll get there. It's powerful, though.

Sure...But how can you prove that if you start from scratch in 2023 with zero followers, and you make the exact same games with the same speed, you'll get the exact same income per year?

I don't think anyone can. Every single variable you look at today is widely different.

That does not mean "make games fast" is not a functional strategy by itself. If your game has an interesting main selling point and people like it you can still build a fan base with fast releases. But thats "has an interesting main selling point" that's selling the game, not "make games fast".

Totally agreed. I just want to point out that an interesting selling point can be used to fill up a really large sausage, or small individual nuggets lol. Which is easier, to sell 1x10 Liter bottle of olive oil, or 20x500ml ones? And for the 20x500ml bottles, what if each one had a different aromatic, like rosemary, thyme, truffle, dried fruit, garlic... Think about this example: Your selling point is still "Fine olive oil" but the strategy is totally different. And the latter one has more possibility of spreading through word of mouth, for hooking people up with an unique idea (I've never seen a dried fruit olive oil, could be the next big thing!)

 

[Indinera]

I definitely share some of your friend's strong points

one of the things that allow you to be constant and perseverant is someone else shouldering that burden for you

I want to add nobody sponsored or 'shouldered' my indie venture, I had to do it all by myself.
I had a day job until half of 2009 and during the years 2006-7 I was sometimes working up to 4 in the morning to make progress with my game.

 

[ATT_Turan]

I want to add nobody sponsored or 'shouldered' my indie venture, I had to do it all by myself.
...I was sometimes working up to 4 in the morning to make progress with my game.

And I just want to emphasize that in relation to the first post in this thread:

Can you make a living off of this or do you still gotta work?

Now maybe the intent was "do you still have to have a day job employed by someone else?"

But every successful indie developer I've read about says what you're saying there, that doing it is as much or more actual work than just doing a decently-paying day job. So if the OP is viewing this as a way to make money off of little effort (which is how the tone of the post comes across to me), I don't think that's realistic.

 

[Indinera]

But every successful indie developer I've read about says what you're saying there, that doing it is as much or more actual work than just doing a decently-paying day job.

Initially it was a lot of work since I had to cram in just one day a job, a hobby and everything else (including sleep).
Once I got my business rolling and some passive income, indie game making became far more enjoyable in every possible aspect than the two day jobs I'd had before that. And it wasn't more work, it was less, with far more freedom and flexibility.
I believe the transition occurred halfway through 2009, with 3 (big, not short) games under my belt I was all set up.

 

[JosephSeraph]

The ideal scenario is that people in general should have the ability to share their burdens. Not to dump them on someone else but share it. So, having a family where everyone can come together and split the bills, or a significant other, or emotional support, etc. So in that sense, well, roll a D20 and see what you get. I can't say I rolled a 1, my situation could've been much worse. But I h'aint pulled a 20 either.

That's a complex and subjective topic, though, and can't be summarized by math, though that certainly helps. Indinera's example with the gradient, transitioning from being overworked while consistently working on this side business is something that everyone in that path should go through, some people in 1 year, some on 10, some in 200. We all know nobody lives 200 years in 2023 though, so you gotta adjust the formula a bit here and there. Or, well, try to figure out how to roll another D20!

To that end, a bite-sized game approach is good, I think. It smooths out the gradient. Adds more hairs to your wig. Actively seeking out help and negotiating is important, too. Having short, mid and long term plans. Making sacrifices here and there.

There's these two friends of mom, one of them went on to work as a VFX director for a season of star trek (or something like that) but during his first 5 yrs in canada his girlfriend paid his college. And then he paid hers. Then there's the cost of living factor which indinera often mentions, too. My family has a (crumbling) house in pretty much the most expensive town in the country. I could make a choice and move out to a cheaper town. How much will I save (or spend! ) in the long run? Which points of this gradient should I make these choices on? I remember when I quit my first job, it was such a struggle, having to come to my mother and say i couldn't take it anymore and was risking with a job experience elsewhere, but that if it failed I'd need her support. She said she'd shoulder it alright, so I started work at my second school back then. Soooo much negotiating, calculating. It worked out, was great! But it was a risk. mitigating risks by having these gradients all a little offset is good.

 

[Iron_Brew]

Can you create good, short RPG Maker games and release them occasionally for constant profit? Maybe you can release them with Aldorlea Games. Since RPG Maker provides many assets and you can buy resources like graphics, sounds, and plugins for cheap, then maybe your expenses won't be big. Can you make a living off of this or do you still gotta work?

Forty games a day come out on Steam. Adding to that deluge and going for what I think can be charitably described as a "diversified portfolio" might yield occasional small-scale success, but at the end of the day nothing trumps a quality, original, passionately-crafted game. I'm sure you could make a living in the way you describe, but I think the real question whether it'll be optimal or sustainable is the question.

Foreshortening your dev cycle to keep costs down under the guise of 'consistency' could land you with an unfavourable reputation depending on the quality of your product. Any cut corners mean that while you might make some sales in the early days, but it could quickly become unsustainable if you're making asset flips (which is what the OP seems to be implying with talk of buying resources, sounds, and plugins for cheap and selling games with a very short dev cycle).

Now, a game's length doesn't necessarily imply quality, and there's nothing wrong with a short game, but are we not just talking around the issue of turning out shovelware to try and make a living?

 

[BubblegumPatty]

Sure you can make a metric ton of short games and charge for them. but the question is will anyone pay 10 bucks for something they can probably get for free elsewhere? With more playtime and/or higher quality?

You can definitely make money off indie games, but to have it be your main income you're going to have to put in a lot of work. Just like any profession.

 

[sabao]

Sure you can make a metric ton of short games and charge for them. but the question is will anyone pay 10 bucks for something they can probably get for free elsewhere? With more playtime and/or higher quality?

You can definitely make money off indie games, but to have it be your main income you're going to have to put in a lot of work. Just like any profession.

I'm iffy on if anyone can manage it with a price tag of 10 USD a pop, but I reckon a market does exist. I believe the primary challenge is tapping into a market that isn't the typical "gamer" archetype, which may demand you find a marketplace beyond Steam. Obviously, there's a set of standards a traditional gamer expects out of experiences, but there are exceptions to the norm.

Amaranth Games for example took what at the time seemed like an odd path and pursued publishing with Big Fish Games, a platform then famous for casual games I typically associated to stuff my parents would play. I don't know if I'd ever bother with their games, but it sure seems like they've kept the ball rolling for themselves.

 

[nonnagreysy]

What about me, I agree the fact that the main challenge lies in attracting a demographic that isn't your typical "gamer" stereotype. Yep, you'll need to find a platform other than Steam to reach them.

And I wanna bring something similar to Amaranth Games - I am about "Undertale" (by Toby Fox). Instead of relying on a large publishing company or mainstream platforms, Toby Fox self-published the game and primarily promoted it through word-of-mouth and social media. And I mean through this that Undertale's success demonstrates alternative marketing strategies and unique game design can capture the attention of players)

 

[sabao]

What about me, I agree the fact that the main challenge lies in attracting a demographic that isn't your typical "gamer" stereotype. Yep, you'll need to find a platform other than Steam to reach them.

And I wanna bring something similar to Amaranth Games - I am about "Undertale" (by Toby Fox). Instead of relying on a large publishing company or mainstream platforms, Toby Fox self-published the game and primarily promoted it through word-of-mouth and social media. And I mean through this that Undertale's success demonstrates alternative marketing strategies and unique game design can capture the attention of players)

I'd beg to disagree there--Undertale was very much built with a core gamer market at least mostly in mind as its ludonarrative plays heavily into the subversion of expectations baked into people familiar with the medium. Undertale has all the DNA of a a classic critics' indie game darling.

Toby Fox, the sole programmer, artist, marketer and musician for the game, knew that anyone with experience playing classic RPGs, would fall into the standard practice of killing or grinding enemies for experience to level up. -Disruptive Video Game Podcast

This is supported by the fact that the project was first announced as a Kickstarter campaign. A traditional gamer is more likely to be looking through and funding video game crowdfunding campaigns than your aunt who plays Candy Crush while on the train. (Yes, Kickstarter campaigns are marketing drives first, funding drives second. At the very least, majority of successfully funded/released projects treat it this way.)

Finally, based on the popular belief of how Undertale was promoted, Toby Fox specifically targeted Let's Players and Streamers who specialized in video game content by handing them free Steam keys.

This was all back in 2013, when doing this kind of thing was a lot easier. Let's Plays are a lot less popular than they used to be, but crowdfunding campaigns and free keys for targeted content creators are still a good way to get word of your game out. A lot of devs of different sizes still do it now.

None of this is a knock on Undertale or Toby Fox. He's talented, hands down, and the game is a beautiful experience if you're walking into it for the first time blind. I just think you may be mistaken in believing he ever targeted an alternative market with his product. A broader audience found his game, yes, but that's just gravy for making a truly exceptional product.

 

[BubblegumPatty]

I also want to add Toby fox started with some notoriety as one of the best known composers for the Homestuck Webcomic (Which was still very huge and on going circa 2013, and completed it's huge kickstarter the year before Undertale's opened), so he was going into Undertale's development with at least a little bit of an audience already.
So perhaps a bit unfair to hold him as an example when most first time devs will starts as complete unknowns.

 

[rue669]

Isn't this the Kemco model?

Most indie games sell about $1,100. That does not include Steam's cut. Given that figure, the vast majority of indie games and indie developers "fail". Very few actually succeed (that is, make $250k and up). This is also why many indie devs stop making a game after their first game flops (the odds are very much against them). Also, note that Steam (or any of the consoles) will "bury" your game if it doesn't make sales. Instead of Steam Greenlight, Valve decided to use Steam Direct, much like Amazon's KDP for authors. But just like with Amazon's KDP, if your game doesn't sell, the store won't sell it for you and will actually "bury" it, thinking that it is "shovelware" (even if it's not). It's all about the algorithm, and getting as many wishlists before launch and tons of sales in the first 30 days after launch.

Personally, I would've preferred Steam's Greenlight program over Steam Direct.

It's not easy being an indie dev (or indie anything, really). So you really have to ask yourself "why" you're doing it. If it's to make a living wage, you're better off going to school to learn how to be an electrician.

Most indie games sell based on either one of two factors:
1) your game has a unique look (most indies have this...look at She Dreams Elsewhere or Omori or Hades...they have a look to them that demands attention)
2) your game has a ridiculous, never-before-seen concept/plot/story that gets people talking about it (this is much harder to do but the best example is Doki Doki Literature Club, which looks very bland and ordinary, but has a killer concept that gets people talking)

Maybe 3) is...you've seriously nailed your genre. But this takes practice. Keep making prototypes and demos and games and analyze where and what people are doing.

Or do what most indies (including myself) do: make what you are passionate about (also known as the hobby indie dev).

 

[JosephSeraph]

Sure you can make a metric ton of short games and charge for them. but the question is will anyone pay 10 bucks for something they can probably get for free elsewhere? With more playtime and/or higher quality?

I'm sure my example can come off as a little bit cynical (and now that i've finished writing it, needlessly anedoctal), but imagine you're out to dine with your friends. you're not too hungry, and you don't really want to spend too much either -- it's not a special occasion, you just decided to meet up for a burger.
as you and your friends turn the corner, you realize there's a man sitting in a makeshift table on the street, he's carrying a bag full of burgers. you look behind his table and there's a pile of what looks like hundreds of wrapped-up burgers, all lined up in a box.
The man looks at you and your friend, and dashes in your direction:
-"Please! please! Have this burger! I can tell you're hungry and this is a really good burger! Eat it! Eat it! It's delightful you are NOT going to regret it!"
You glance to his side and there's a cozy little restaurant, "John Doe's". It looks shabby, but inviting. Upon entering, your gaze meets the menu: Cheeseburger: $1.59".

What do you do? Do you hear the strange man's pleas and eat the freeeee burgers? Or pay $1.59 for what looks like a perfectly acceptable one?

There's all sorts of issues with my example, but just by stamping a price on something you're already telling the player it is worth more of their time than something that's free. It's subcouscous. Sure, if the burger was $0.10 I would PROBABLY go for the free burger though lol. But yeah.

That's why I say that if you're financially comfortable and just want people to play your game... Sell it. And donate all the proceedings to charity. It WILL be played by more people than if it were free. And if the issue is affordability, fear not -- people WILL pirate it, and you will hopefully not mind.

All I mean to say here is that the argument that "people can already get something like this for free" is false. If simply because the free thing already has one thing going against it: It's free.



edit: off topic but, are burgers REALLY cheaper than $2.5 usd in the US? (That's what google told me) Because like, it's impossible to buy a burger that's cheaper than R$15 in Brazil, lol. Actually, please don't answer this directly but it made me thing about something: I am based in Brazil, i spend money here in my country, but I earn in USD. Since I've never traveled abroad, or really much far from my hometown of Santos, São Paulo (a notoriously expensive city), I have no practical experience of what money can buy in different places. For a long time I thought earning in USD was an advantage, but often when comparing prices of things I find that buying stuff in BRL is considerably more expensive. That goes from food to housing to electricity to, especially, work-related costs. That shifts the perspective of the "doable if you're from a third world country" narrative imo, as I feel like (some) third world citizens don't actually spend less, we just are used to having lower standards of living and having access to fewer things but maybe someone who lives in a cheaper town than Santos can prove me wrong! Maybe that's a topic for a new thread...

 

[sabao]

Isn't this the Kemco model?

Exactly this! Early Kemco titles were far from revolutionary, but they were "passable" at best. What they did have going for them was a rapid release schedule, a platform that was at the time starved for traditional JRPG experiences, and giant brass balls for charging $0.99 per download when freemium was seen as the popular price model for mobile games.

Beyond choice of medium and price point, I recall them releasing demo downloads in the App Store as well. App store users, likely majority being non-core gamers, that may have been unsure about taking the plunge got to try the games out first before making the already inexpensive investment.

I personally saw early Kemco games as narratively unexciting and rather shoddily localized. Never finished any of them either. For whatever reason, however, I have ten of their games.

Later, they appear to have leveraged their position by offering to publish games by other studios. More income for arguably less risk/work.

 

[BubblegumPatty]

There's all sorts of issues with my example, but just by stamping a price on something you're already telling the player it is worth more of their time than something that's free. It's subcouscous. Sure, if the burger was $0.10 I would PROBABLY go for the free burger though lol. But yeah.

I see what you're getting at and I agree. If you put a price tag on it, it's probably bc it's supposed to be worth that much. But that price tag also comes with expectations that that item is worth that much money.

So if John Doe's Burgers gives me severe food poisoning, the staff is overwhelming rude or incompetent, or the food is just really terrible... I'm never going back again, regardless how many burgers they could make me. That 1.59 burger would be a rip off in that case.

(On the sidenote: 2.50 is about the minimum I see for a single patty no thrills cheeseburger. Around 3-4 dollars is the norm I think?)