Resource Packs

[Redweaver]

Why would you lock my thread? Are you actively preventing me from automating a process that I find tedious? I'm no longer asking the staff to provide this, I'm looking to hook up with other users to make this happen, so it wouldn't be a drain on your resources. Why are you fighting with me over this?

Its time to face facts. Installing the Resource Packs for use in your game project is a pain in the butt. It doesn't really matter what the various and sundry reasons are why it is this way, it is just acknowledging reality to admit its not as easy as it really should be.

But I think we can fix that. We have a great community of code-minded folks. I have every confidence that one of you possesses the skills and knowledge to make a straight-forward, user-friendly, third-party installer.

Here's what I'm thinking. It needs to start by looking at your game project folders and asking which project you want to install to. Then it would show a manager window like so:

Installed Resource Packs Available Resource Packs---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------DS Pack DS+ PackThe Nothing Battles High Fantasy Pack <-- Add button Arabian Nights Remove button --> Futuristic AtmospheresCancel button | Accept Changes buttonThis would give us a much more usable, "one-click" installation for all the files included in a resource pack and wouldn't remove any of the current functionality that more advanced developers make use of. I don't want to change what anyone is currently doing. If someone is comfortable working through the tedious click-fest, more power to them.So, what do you guys think? Is anyone up to the challenge? I wish I knew a programming language...if I did, this would already be made.

Please let us users solve a problem you're not interested in fixing.

 

[Ksi]

Yeah... and what if I didn't want the whole pack? Or just want to edit certain parts? I prefer the way it is now. It gives me the ability to pick and choose which pieces I want to add to my game without having to search for whatever was installed automatically to delete them. Because believe me, there's nothing worse than game bloat.

An example of this is music. (Dear God.) When I pick music for a game I don't use whole packs. I use the ones that fit certain areas. I certainly don't add anything I don't use and when you have a lot of music already in a game, sorting through them to figure out if you used x, y or z is the worst thing.

The same can be said of graphics. Just... too much bloat can make it hard on those who want to download a game but can't because of size. So, yeah, I'll pick and choose thanks.

 

[Redweaver]

Yeah... and what if I didn't want the whole pack? Or just want to edit certain parts? I prefer the way it is now. It gives me the ability to pick and choose which pieces I want to add to my game without having to search for whatever was installed automatically to delete them. Because believe me, there's nothing worse than game bloat.

Then you keep doing what you're doing.


What if I do what the whole pack? I have to manually move everything. I'd rather have that automated.

 

[Ksi]

Uh, you just copy/paste the folders? It's not hard...

 

[Redweaver]

Uh, you just copy/paste the folders? It's not hard...

Great! Then it should be trivial to automate this same task.


Is there a problem with this?

 

[Redweaver]

Not knowing how to find and make use of the resource packs is a common problem. Just a cursory search of this site, the rpgmakervxace.net forums and the steam forums came up with quite a few people having issues with this.


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/15545-cant-find-modern-day-resource-pace-after-downloading-from-steam/?hl=import#entry154079


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/14821-importing-problems/?hl=import


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/10067-where-is-my-stuff/?hl=import


http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/20816-how-do-i-installimport-dlcs/


http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/20751-cant-find-my-dlcs/http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814843365245532/


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814843257595773/


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814843123739530/


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814843047968093/


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/864961713010163239/


Its great that you find it easy. Can you not have empathy for folks that don't?

 

[mlogan]

Its time to face facts. Installing the Resource Packs for use in your game project is a pain in the butt. It doesn't really matter what the various and sundry reasons are why it is this way, it is just acknowledging reality to admit its not as easy as it really should be.

For the sake of discussion before this gets locked again, I would love to hear some of these "various and sundry reasons" as to why installing resources is a pain in the butt. I just trialed it, and it took me 7 clicks to import a new tile sheet.  This is not a "pain in the butt" in my opinion, so I am truly curious what it is that makes you think it is.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

     The problem with this, as I can see it is that the only resource packs that actually do require any amount of real effort to install in game are resources like the holder's style battlers and the eight frame and diagonal sprites that are included in the high fantasy resources and such. That is due to them requiring third party scripts and such in order to even be workable with the engine, however and that would not be fixable in an installer (if anything it would be a hindrance as there are multiple scripts to choose from to implement them and each require different naming conventions... and by default they do not fit any of those conventions either.) As others have said it's really simple if they are base resources, you can shift-click them if they are similar, most packs that I've gotten at least put like items in folders together so that is simple.

I take much longer to install them myself, but that's because I don't like to add a resource to my project until I have a use for it, and I like to give them my own naming conventions (ex. playable characters having prefix of Actor and questgivers having Quest etc...) because it makes my resources nice and organized. I just can't see an installer truly making anything easier in the long run.

 

[AstoXx]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. OK, moving folders is a pain the butt but LITERALLY COPYING AND PASTING YOUR WHOLE FIRST POST TO ANOTHER THREAD AFTER THE FIRST ONE GOT LOCKED ISN'T?! I am sure that takes more than 2 clicks to do, so by your logic, it's too hard, right? Yet, you went and did it anyway. Good job, you proved you have the finger strength to operate that mouse correctly.

...Now do it with your dayum resource folders, it's really not hard. In fact it takes three clicks only. I counted. 1 to open the main folder, another to open another window with your project folder, then the final click to drag and drop.

It would take the same amount of clicks to do it your way. 1 click to open the program, 1 click to select your packs and the final third click to confirm. You are adding or improving on nothing.

 

[Redweaver]

For the sake of discussion before this gets locked again, I would love to hear some of these "various and sundry reasons" as to why installing resources is a pain in the butt. I just trialed it, and it took me 7 clicks to import a new tile sheet.  This is not a "pain in the butt" in my opinion, so I am truly curious what it is that makes you think it is.

Look, I just want to buy a resource pack, put it into my game project and get about making my game. Its not a pain in the butt in your opinion. Fine. You're allowed that opinion. I think it is a pain in the butt. Am I allowed that opinion?


I already provided what I feel is plenty of links to threads from other users who also think its a pain in the butt. Do I need to support my opinion further? I can link more threads. They're there.


Why am I getting this attitude and fight because I want this process to be easier? You think its easy? Great. Let's make it even easier still.


I have to know where the dlc is. Know where its got to go. Put it in its proper place. Make sure I don't miss any. These are mindless, tedious, needless tasks in my opinion. These are the tasks that a computer was designed to do for us because its faster and more accurate. I don't want to spend time importing resources, not even 7 clicks worth of time (and that's if you know what you're doing before-hand...you're not taking into account what it takes the very first time you encounter this "system").

 

[Redweaver]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. OK, moving folders is a pain the butt but LITERALLY COPYING AND PASTING YOUR WHOLE FIRST POST TO ANOTHER THREAD AFTER THE FIRST ONE GOT LOCKED ISN'T?! I am sure that takes more than 2 clicks to do, so by your logic, it's too hard, right? Yet, you went and did it anyway. Good job, you proved you have the finger strength to operate that mouse correctly.


...Now do it with your dayum resource folders, it's really not hard. In fact it takes three clicks only. I counted. 1 to open the main folder, another to open another window with your project folder, then the final click to drag and drop.


It would take the same amount of clicks to do it your way. 1 click to open the program, 1 click to select your packs and the final third click to confirm. You are adding or improving on nothing.

Its not your place to decide for me what I do and do not find tedious.


If you don't want to help, don't help. If you want this to fail, stop replying and let the thread slide into oblivion. If you wouldn't use this little program then DON'T USE THE dayum PROGRAM!


Why are you fighting with me over wanting this?

 

[Neverward]

Yeah I think that Alexander nailed it. The few things which are difficult would be pretty much impossible to automate, and the things which aren't are easy enough to figure out... I mean frankly, even if you have a point and even if you're right and even if it could be made easier, I think it's blatantly apparent at this point that very few people are going to agree with you, and as such it is extremely unlikely your going to find help in your automating process. I empathize with you that efficiency is always superior, however I just don't' see it happening in this case.

I'll add that those topics you posted, you can find the same thing for making a treasure chest, and opening doors. People just don't know things, once they learn them, they do. They figured it out sure enough, and now they know it and probably wouldn't care for the automated process.

 

[Redweaver]

Yeah I think that Alexander nailed it. The few things which are difficult would be pretty much impossible to automate, and the things which aren't are easy enough to figure out... I mean frankly, even if you have a point and even if you're right and even if it could be made easier, I think it's blatantly apparent at this point that very few people are going to agree with you, and as such it is extremely unlikely your going to find help in your automating process. I empathize with you that efficiency is always superior, however I just don't' see it happening in this case.


I'll add that those topics you posted, you can find the same thing for making a treasure chest, and opening doors. People just don't know things, once they learn them, they do. They figured it out sure enough, and now they know it and probably wouldn't care for the automated process.

Very few advanced users who are already a part of the "I know how to do this" club will agree with me.


I've already posted links to plenty of threads from people who are also having an issue with this, but apparently that's not enough. So, here's some more!


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814842849283918/


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814395764577238/


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/10209-dlc-help/


Here's my post over on the rpgmakervxace.net forums. Look at the very first reply to me:


http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/20819-resource-packs/

I would love something like this to be available. I have no idea what I'm doing with my dlcs.

Oh, and let's not forget the one that started all this:


http://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/648814395764577238/


The only reason you don't agree with me is because you've already figured out how to do this. But, yeah, you must be right...all those people in all those threads wouldn't agree with me.


Oh, by the way. I own the DS resource pack. I know how to do manually what I'm asking. I've done both the copy/paste folders method and used the in-editor manager to import them one file at a time. REPEAT: I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS And knowing how to do this makes me want to make it easier EVEN MORE!


I have first-hand experience with how mindless and tedious I find the process of importing resources to be and I want to automate it. Why are you guys hostile to that?

 

[Shaz]

Redweaver, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.

Not knowing how to find and make use of the resource packs is a common problem. Just a cursory search of this site, the rpgmakervxace.net forums and the steam forums came up with quite a few people having issues with this.


Its great that you find it easy. Can you not have empathy for folks that don't?

Then folks need to read the tutorials that are provided, both here and on steam. The steps are all there. The file locations are all there. Why would a tool make it any easier (since we'd need to provide instructions with it too) for people who can't handle reading the instructions that are already there? And what about people who haven't used the default locations for their projects? How would the tool know where to find them all? If it doesn't do it automatically, there's more clicking for the user.

 

[Neverward]

I think it's nice that those people on that forum are supporting the idea, and I agree that the amount of negativity in this topic and your former topic is rather excessive (are we not a forum made for the purpose of helping our fellow game makers?) however, I think that the points made here are as legitimate as the issue you're talking about...

I think Shaz made the crux point here. Those people who are struggling, they usually (I'm not saying all) frankly just didn't do what made it so easy for everyone else, which is to read how to do it. Do you think that an automation process, which likely they would have to install (which would be more difficult then just installing the pack by a great deal) would help the sort of people who don't' even bother to see if there IS an automated process? And I believe those people are your target market for this idea.

 

[Ksi]

Can I please point out that people - hundreds apon hundreds of newbs each year - have been using this method since... oh, around '98 and barely any have had an issue with it.

Of the thousands of people who have used RM engines, actually importing the graphics is a non-issue to the vast majority. Even in the times when all we had to rely on were shoddily translated instructions. Why? Because it's easy as balls to understand if you read the damn instructions, whether they be in English or Engrish.

How is this even an issue?

Besides, the import feature is used not only to just import items into the game, but also to sort out transparency between different images. If you have an image with a green background and one with a red, then you just import, click the colour that needs to be adjusted on each one (as well as the shadow/transparent colour) and BAM! Done.

Your idea won't work because just mass installing different packs will mess with transparencies.

It can also be used to delete resources that you don't want, allows you to see them closer up and allows you to export. It lets you pick pieces - songs and such - without importing a load of ***** that you won't use and lets you choose other graphics that aren't in a fricking set. Because not everyone (in fact, a lot of people) uses whole sets all the time.

Most of all, the current system is not fricking broken so why bother fixing when there are other things that are more worthy of a look-see?

*I am not implying that resource packs are **** but that extraneous parts that are of no use to a game are, in the eyes of the creator who doesn't need them, ****.

 

[Redweaver]

Here's a quote from one of the threads I linked. A person was having an issue with this and then was linked to a guide. After reading the guide and figuring it out, here's the response:

Thank you LoneWolfDon. A bit of a hassle but it works.

Hmmmm. Bit of a hassle but it works. You think this person would appreciate an easier way, even though he already knows how to do it? Even after reading a guide.


Here's another quote from a different thread:

Okay, I understand now. There is no way to get RPG Maker to "see" the DLC resources on every project I make automatically. Instead, they must be manually imported into each new project as needed, into the existing Resource Manager directory structure. The project will physically contain its own copy of all the files imported, so I shouldn't import things I won't need in that specific project.


Seems... clunky, but I'll have to get used to it.

Hmmmm....clunky. What an accurate descriptor.


Still certain that no one who knows how to do this wouldn't like an easier way.

 

[EvilEagles]

I want a program where I can just drag and drop an elaborated story involving dragons and romance between the main male swordsman and the female cleric, a complex Junction system like in Final Fantasy VIII, beautiful illustrated backgrounds, and all those fancy glamorous things!

Because man, creating them is such a pain in the ass. In fact making games is such a pain in the ass. Someone please make it happen for me because I can't program a basic "Hello World!" pop-up for the love of God.

 

[Redweaver]

Redweaver, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.


Then folks need to read the tutorials that are provided, both here and on steam. The steps are all there. The file locations are all there. Why would a tool make it any easier (since we'd need to provide instructions with it too) for people who can't handle reading the instructions that are already there? And what about people who haven't used the default locations for their projects? How would the tool know where to find them all? If it doesn't do it automatically, there's more clicking for the user.

Archeia locked my first thread out of hand based on an interaction on an entirely different forum. She even gave me her same answer from the thread on the other forum which she also locked


Why am I not allowed to ask for this?


If none of the staff wants to help, fine. Why can't I ask my fellow users?


I feel I was unfairly treated by having my first thread locked. I have no recourse available to me as far as I can see, so, yes, I reposted. I hope this thread can be given a fair chance.


If there is genuinely no one who wants this, then stop replying to me. The thread will die and we can all get on with our lives.

 

[Ksi]

Ah, now see. If I wanted my points ignored I'd have gone posted elsewhere. Obviously you don't read replies. Nevermind then, no use arguing with a troll.

Edit: Maybe because she's staff and the answer was an official one? Perhaps she believed that the issue had been resolved with the official statement? Yeah, I'll go with that interpretation.