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Archeia

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Okay since obviously you're too engrossed on wanting things automated and saying **** IS EASY. I'm going to explain to you once again that the fact you can't program and asking the community means you have no right to say that things are easy. Because you don't know how the internal code works and don't even BOTHER TO PRETEND YOU DO SINCE YOU JUST ADMITTED IT IN THIS TOPIC.

You don't know how steam dev works and how painful it is to work with and thinking of ways to make your "importing issues" easier. Just because we said in our official statement that we're not doing anything by this time doesn't mean that we have not considered it or thinking of solutions to pamper to both sides that ARE HAPPY WITH IT AS IT IS and those newbies like yourself who can't even be bothered to import things via basic windows knowledge.

STEAM DLC HANDLES THINGS DIFFERENTLY WHICH MAKES IT HARD FOR US TO WORK WITH. Right now our priorities is making things easier to distribute to the workshop since that's the most requested thing for now. My installer for RPG Maker DS+ pack for example wasn't applied in steam DLC because it doesn't allow batch files for example. Why else would they remove the installer that I added there?

Once again, we already mentioned this 123213123123x over. This is not a downloadable add-on content that is part of the program. It's just an image/sound pack since you seem to think resource packs and dlc packs are the same. They're not add-ons to the program, they are made by the VERY SAME COMMUNITY you are asking right now, who prefers this method of installment/importing and see no issues with it.

Think about it for a second.

Seriously.
 
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Alexander Amnell

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I'm gonna try this one more time...

1. I think it's funny how you just gloss over the posts that actually give legitimate criticism to your proposal such as my last post and Neverward, while flaming the people who are tired of your arguments and are flaming you in turn...which makes me understand exactly why your last thread was shut down so fast...

2. To flip your own question on you, if no one 'here' wants something like this, is it really worth discussing 'here' any longer and re-posting whenever your post gets locked for turning into a flamefest?

3. Just saw what you just added, ignoring the posts with the most concise, reasonable explanations for why your idea wouldn't be feasible because you have no retort other than "this is useful to me and a lot of other people who aren't here' is not the way to win an argument... if you were ignoring posts like EvilEagles that was just sarcasm and scorn you could argue that... but those aren't the posts that you are ignoring.

either Ignore this or debuff my original points and Neverwards at least when you do flame back.
 
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Neverward

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I personally take the time to respond with at least a sentence to each person who responds to a discussion thread which I personally began. It's called starting and moderating a discussion, a skill which you develop being on forums after a while.

And you found them unreasonable? How?.... I'm usually a nice girl, and I try not to flame, but your just damn wrong.

So yeah, tons of people have posted that they need help (because of their lack of competence at reading instructions, usually) but you won't read the MANY posts that have accumulated here, relevant to the topic, from people who disagree? You can close your ears and eyes to what you don't want to hear if you like, it just makes you look silly.
 

AstoXx

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I disagree that they are reasonable. That's why they've been ignored. Or, rather, that's why I've carefully replied to each one to point out why I disagree.

But, yeah, that's totally me just ignoring you.

You guys are ganging up on me, and I'm replying the best I can. Perhaps if the wolf pack could calm down a little bit.

Actually, the quickest way to stop me double posting is to stop replying to me

If you genuinely have an issue with this thread, then let it die!
Great, now I have to weigh in again. Generally this only happens when I find myself accosted by sheer and utter stupidity. So, here we go... let's knock out the quote first and get it out of the way. No, you only think they're unreasonable, everyone else thinks otherwise. But then again, that's unimportant anyway... in an actual debate, you address ALL your opponent's points, even the ones you think are unreasonable. You can't just pick and choose what you argue against, especially when that resultant quotemining is you actively ignoring responses to your points, which leads to you reiterating those same points that were just addressed.

SO YES, IT IS JUST YOU IGNORING THEM. GOOD OF YOU TO ADMIT THAT.

We're not ganging up on you. We're showing you the true majority, not the vocal minority you think is. We're showing that for the past 10 or so years, we have not had a problem with this system. We read the manual. Guess what? If people want to use your dream software, they'll have to read a manual for that too. Not only does what you want do the same amount of clicks as the current method as I said earlier, but it now also requires basic reading as well. If you're going to be a proponent of change, at least make a change, not dress up the same system in a fancy jacket (with less functionality to boot, I might add, making the system you propose actually INFERIOR so far).

And now, the double-posting. The quickest way for them to get you to stop double-posting is to tell you to stop double-posting.​ Because that is their job. Are you really berating the staff right now for attempting to run the forums with efficiency and make sure people know the rules? Are you that dense?! If they get you to stop double-posting here without telling you, you'll do it in another thread. If they do tell you here, you'll never double-post again. Many birds, one stone.

Finally, this is not a imageboard. We aren't 2chan or 4chan or 9gag. Threads don't die when they aren't bumped. Haven't you heard of necroposting? That's because an old thread that isn't locked can be drudged up from underneath the slag heap and rekindled. Necroposting is notorious for inciting new dramas and reigniting old ones. By locking the thread, they are making it die more effectively than what you are proposing they do. They're also doing their job again. If you want this thread to die as much as the staff do, then stop posting for a while and let them lock it. Maybe after thinking on it a while, you can propose a system that does more than simply make it obvious how to use resource packs, even though it doesn't actually make it better.

There, I think that's it. No doubt you'll reply to me with some flimsy arguments, frothing at the mouth, but I'm content in the knowledge I tried my best. I've bolded the important bits, since your reading comprehension is a bit under scrutiny in my eyes right now given your tendency to ignore what people are saying to you. I hope it helps.
 
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Redweaver

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Okay since obviously you're too engrossed on wanting things automated and saying **** IS EASY. I'm going to explain to you once again that the fact you can't program and asking the community means you have no right to say that things are easy. Because you don't know how the internal code works and don't even BOTHER TO PRETEND YOU DO SINCE YOU JUST ADMITTED IT IN THIS TOPIC.


You don't know how steam dev works and how painful it is to work with and thinking of ways to make your "importing issues" easier. Just because we said in our official statement that we're not doing anything by this time doesn't mean that we have not considered it or thinking of solutions to pamper to both sides that ARE HAPPY WITH IT AS IT IS and those newbies like yourself who can't even be bothered to import things via basic windows knowledge.


STEAM DLC HANDLES THINGS DIFFERENTLY WHICH MAKES IT HARD FOR US TO WORK WITH. Right now our priorities is making things easier to distribute to the workshop since that's the most requested thing for now. My installer for RPG Maker DS+ pack for example wasn't applied in steam DLC because it doesn't allow batch files for example. Why else would they remove the installer that I added there?


Once again, we already mentioned this 123213123123x over. This is not a downloadable add-on content that is part of the program. It's just an image/sound pack since you seem to think resource packs and dlc packs are the same. They're not add-ons to the program, they are made by the VERY SAME COMMUNITY you are asking right now, who prefers this method of installment/importing and see no issues with it.


Think about it for a second.


Seriously.
I have thought about it, for more than a second. Steam dev is hard, fine. But that doesn't affect an outside program that is independant of steam that could automate this process. You can't change the editor, you can't change the way the resource packs are made. I fully understand that. I've thought about it. I've considered it very carefully.


And my response is that nothing you said should actually be an obstacle to the creation of such a program.


The staff doesn't want to make said program.


I've also read this. And thought about it for more than a second.


And my response is, let's ask the rest of the community.


If you've already given me the official line and there's nothing more that you're willing to do, then why not just bow out? Why fight with me?

I'm gonna try this one more time...


1. I think it's funny how you just gloss over the posts that actually give legitimate criticism to your proposal such as my last post and Neverward, while flaming the people who are tired of your arguments and are flaming you in turn...which makes me understand exactly why your last thread was shut down so fast...
My thread here was shut down before it was even given a chance. Based on some posts made in an entirely different forum. I copy and pasted my post from the locked thread so you can read it for yourself. I think that I was straightforward and polite and that I asked a very reasonable request.


And I feel the response to me was way, WAY out of line and over the top compared to what my request was.

2. To flip your own question on you, if no one 'here' wants something like this, is it really worth discussing 'here' any longer and re-posting whenever your post gets locked for turning into a flamefest?
Because I tend to reply to folks that reply to me? Its a failing of mine I guess, but I tend to like to respond when I'm spoken to.

3. Just saw what you just added, ignoring the posts with the most concise, reasonable explanations for why your idea wouldn't be feasible because you have no retort other than "this is useful to me and a lot of other people who aren't here' is not the way to win an argument... if you were ignoring posts like EvilEagles that was just sarcasm and scorn you could argue that... but those aren't the posts that you are ignoring.


either Ignore this or debuff my original points and Neverwards at least when you do flame back.
 
I fundamentally disagree that I ignored anyone. But I can't alter your perception of that.

I personally take the time to respond with at least a sentence to each person who responds to a discussion thread which I personally began. It's called starting and moderating a discussion, a skill which you develop being on forums after a while.


And you found them unreasonable? How?.... I'm usually a nice girl, and I try not to flame, but your just damn wrong.
Since I did the exact same thing to you (replied when you responded), then I obviously don't find it unreasonable. I'm really not sure what you're even reading anymore.

So yeah, tons of people have posted that they need help (because of their lack of competence at reading instructions, usually) but you won't read the MANY posts that have accumulated here, relevant to the topic, from people who disagree? You can close your ears and eyes to what you don't want to hear if you like, it just makes you look silly.
So, great. They disagree. They made their points. I listened. Now, I'd like to continue with my initial idea of making this file manager.

We're not ganging up on you. We're showing you the true majority, not the vocal minority you think is. We're showing that for the past 10 or so years, we have not had a problem with this system. We read the manual. Guess what? If people want to use your dream software, they'll have to read a manual for that too. Not only does what you want do the same amount of clicks as the current method as I said earlier, but it now also requires basic reading as well. If you're going to be a proponent of change, at least make a change, not dress up the same system in a fancy jacket (with less functionality to boot, I might add, making the system you propose actually INFERIOR so far).
I disagree that you're not ganging up on me. There's a clear "circle the wagons" mentality going on here. I've dared to question the status quo and pointed out a massive failing in the product you love. So you all get hyper defensive and attack the person who doesn't like the way things currently work. Me thinking importing resources is tedious is not an insult to you guys...but you sure as hell reacted like it is.


Yes, this will have less functionality, which is why we shouldn't remove or alter what's currently there. Yes, people will have to learn to use this, but if its made well, learning that will be even easier than learning how its currently handled. People have to start somewhere. Start with learning this quick and dirty installation, then move to learning the "real way" that you guys approve of so you can stop looking down on them, and then maybe move onto scripting or something. Baby steps. What's wrong with that?

Finally, this is not a imageboard. We aren't 2chan or 4chan or 9gag. Threads don't die when they aren't bumped. Haven't you heard of necroposting? That's because an old thread that isn't locked can be drudged up from underneath the slag heap and rekindled. Necroposting is notorious for inciting new dramas and rekindling old ones. By locking the thread, they are making it die more effectively than what you are proposing they do. They're also doing their job again. If you want this thread to die as much as the staff do, then stop posting for a while and let them lock it. Maybe after thinking on it a while, you can propose a system that does more than simply make it obvious how to use resource packs, even though it doesn't actually make it better.
Yes, but if no one replies to the thread, then it gets no attention. With all of you bombing it, it becomes a hot topic. Which draws attention. Which draws even more replies. Which becomes a cycle.


So, yes. If you stop replying to me trying to defend this system of installing resource packs, then this thread will effectively "die", won't it?

There, I think that's it. No doubt you'll reply to me with some flimsy arguments, frothing at the mouth, but I'm content in the knowledge I tried my best. I've bolded the important bits, since your reading comprehension is a bit under scrutiny in my eyes right now given your tendency to ignore what people are saying to you. I hope it helps.
Yes, because baiting me with an insult is a sure-fire way to not get insulted in return.


Ever hear of the golden rule?
 
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Neverward

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Since I did the exact same thing to you (replied when you responded), then I obviously don't find it unreasonable. I'm really not sure what you're even reading anymore.
Yeah way to dodge answering what's unreasonable about what I said. I don't even think you COULD give me a reasonable argument to my original points, which is why you didn't respond. And even now, you don't reply to them.

Just gonna throw it out there, you asked the community. I'm no mod, and many people that replied here aren't....

We are the communmity. Sorry if you want to lump us into the 'unhelpful mods' category, but the majority of the 'community' your trying to rally to your point, are telling you they don't care.....

MOST THE PEOPLE YOU WANT TO HELP DO NOT CARE. the ones who do are not the type of people who can help you with it. If someone out there, some maven of both scripting and who LOVES NOOBS with a burning passion (because I don't see them helping othersie) makes this, then it will probably not even get used. But power to you man, you KNOW HOW TO MAINTAIN YOUR VIEWPOINT.

Why am I even responding? Maybe it's because your overwhelming belligerence is so mind-blowing I can't even comprehend it. So I'm just going to save myself the brainpower of understanding you and say, bye.
 

Alexander Amnell

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Why am I even responding? Maybe it's because your overwhelming belligerence is so mind-blowing I can't even comprehend it. So I'm just going to save myself the brainpower of understanding you and say, bye.
Ditto

P.S. This post here, while pointless adds as much to this topic as the op's last 10 at least...
 

AstoXx

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The sad part is he is not even wrong.
 

Redweaver

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Yeah way to dodge answering what's unreasonable about what I said. I don't even think you COULD give me a reasonable argument to my original points, which is why you didn't respond. And even now, you don't reply to them.


Just gonna throw it out there, you asked the community. I'm no mod, and many people that replied here aren't....


We are the communmity. Sorry if you want to lump us into the 'unhelpful mods' category, but the majority of the 'community' your trying to rally to your point, are telling you they don't care.....


MOST THE PEOPLE YOU WANT TO HELP DO NOT CARE. the ones who do are not the type of people who can help you with it. If someone out there, some maven of both scripting and who LOVES NOOBS with a burning passion (because I don't see them helping othersie) makes this, then it will probably not even get used. But power to you man, you KNOW HOW TO MAINTAIN YOUR VIEWPOINT.


Why am I even responding? Maybe it's because your overwhelming belligerence is so mind-blowing I can't even comprehend it. So I'm just going to save myself the brainpower of understanding you and say, bye.
Here's your initial post, containing, I assume, your initial questions:

Yeah I think that Alexander nailed it. The few things which are difficult would be pretty much impossible to automate, and the things which aren't are easy enough to figure out... I mean frankly, even if you have a point and even if you're right and even if it could be made easier, I think it's blatantly apparent at this point that very few people are going to agree with you, and as such it is extremely unlikely your going to find help in your automating process. I empathize with you that efficiency is always superior, however I just don't' see it happening in this case.


I'll add that those topics you posted, you can find the same thing for making a treasure chest, and opening doors. People just don't know things, once they learn them, they do. They figured it out sure enough, and now they know it and probably wouldn't care for the automated process.
Here's my direct reply to that post, where I answer your question:

Very few advanced users who are already a part of the "I know how to do this" club will agree with me.


I've already posted links to plenty of threads from people who are also having an issue with this, but apparently that's not enough. So, here's some more!


http://steamcommunit...14842849283918/


http://steamcommunit...14395764577238/


http://forums.rpgmak...10209-dlc-help/


Here's my post over on the rpgmakervxace.net forums. Look at the very first reply to me:


http://www.rpgmakerv...resource-packs/


Quote


I would love something like this to be available. I have no idea what I'm doing with my dlcs.


Oh, and let's not forget the one that started all this:


http://steamcommunit...14395764577238/


The only reason you don't agree with me is because you've already figured out how to do this. But, yeah, you must be right...all those people in all those threads wouldn't agree with me.


Oh, by the way. I own the DS resource pack. I know how to do manually what I'm asking. I've done both the copy/paste folders method and used the in-editor manager to import them one file at a time. REPEAT: I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS And knowing how to do this makes me want to make it easier EVEN MORE!


I have first-hand experience with how mindless and tedious I find the process of importing resources to be and I want to automate it. Why are you guys hostile to that?
Your initial point: I think it's blatantly apparent at this point that very few people are going to agree with you, and as such it is extremely unlikely your going to find help in your automating process."


My reply was to post links to threads from people who would like this to be easier.


Please explain how I'm not reading what you say and how I'm not responding to what you wrote?


You're accusing me of ignoring what you post, while doing the exact same thing to me.

Why am I even responding? Maybe it's because your overwhelming belligerence is so mind-blowing I can't even comprehend it. So I'm just going to save myself the brainpower of understanding you and say, bye.
Ditto

P.S. This post here, while pointless adds as much to this topic as the op's last 10 at least...
I'm being belligerent? If that isn't a CLASSIC example of the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is.
 
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Shaz

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Time to take a step back and cool down a bit, folks. If you have something to add that's not already been said, AND you can do it without insulting or attacking other members, go for it. If this keeps going the way it is, it'll be locked very soon too (and allowed to let die). And there WON'T be a new one started.
 
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Galv

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As people have said - there are tutorials how to already do this.


Personally I think it would far more beneficial for new people to learn how rather than automating the process. It's not hard, it won't take long and this knowledge of how it works can open more doors to users and make it easier for them in the long run. I see that as a good thing for them.


If I don't know how to do something in software I am using, I want to learn how. I don't want something to do it for me.
 

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From what I can tell it's not some attack on the status quo that the people here are getting upset about, but the "I deserve this because I want it" entitled attitude that you've displayed from your very first post on the subject.  Despite that there have been some replies here that have ignored the attitude and taken the time to give your suggestion some serious thought and attention and then tried to explain how it really isn't as good as an idea as you think it is.  In the interest of clarity I'm going to try to rephrase the arguments.

The amount of effort it would require to do this is a great deal more than the benefit anyone would receive from it.  As a non-programmer you'll just have to take the word of all the programmers who say that it's so.  It's just not an effective use of time and energy.

Even if such a system were made the same people who have problems now would have problems with the new system.  There would be no reduction in complaints or difficulty of use.  The people who have made this point aren't just guessing, they have real experience dealing with these things in similar situations.  You can say that "if it's designed well it will be easier" but you have no experience designing these systems.  How do you know that it will be easier?  How do you even know that what your asking for is even possible?  In this sort of situation where you don't have the knowledge of how to do this yourself you have to rely on the knowledge and experience of the people who do.  These people are telling you that it won't be any easier.

Importing packs as a whole is usually not the best way to do things.  When people say "mass importing" they mean one pack at a time.

If someone can't be bothered to put the effort in to find the correct way to import graphics, making a game is going to be too hard for them.  On the other hand taking the time to import graphics is an easy way to familiarize a new person to the way RPG Maker functions and can be helpful in learning the program as a whole.  I believe I have tested out every RPG Making software on the internet, even really obscure ones in developer limbo.  RPG Maker has by far the easiest importing system and is the only one that I was able to use without looking anything up.

Something that you seem to be ignoring is that to get something like this done the programmers have to want it, not the random newbs who never seem to stay on beyond 10 posts or read any of the answers given to them.  That is the point that Neverward is making, not that none of the newbs might think it's cool, but that none of the people that you want help from think it's worthwhile.  Pointing out the posts of people who you think will like it isn't really a good way of convincing anyone that it is.  If you want to convince a programmer you'll want to try a different tack entirely.  Plan out what this program might look like, what it would look for, what it would ignore, how it would interface with the Maker without breaking the UELA.  Figure out something that the programmer would get out of it besides a vague promise of popularity.  I think the whole tone of the thread would change if there was some obvious effort put in on your side and not just a list of demands.
 

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Let me clear up a few things ...

1. It was not Archeia who locked your previous thread. I locked it after my official reply, as this is common practice we have when it comes to suggestions and threads asking for extra RPG Maker functions. If you ever have an issue with a moderator action, you can follow the chain of command and contact another moderator or administrator. Calling out a mod in public - especially when you're not even right about it as you were with Archeia - is not how we deal with issues.

2. I would have locked this thread immediately, because it's actually against our rules to create multiple threads - especially when a thread is already locked and considered solved - but I wanted to let the community give you feedback. I wanted to give you a chance to reach out and maybe find someone who can help you. I don't think that's going so well, however.

3. We interact with a lot of RM users, and have been for quite a few years. We have a pretty good handle on what the users want and need, as well as how much time and money can be devoted to new developments. At the moment, we are not dedicating time and energy to creating an auto-install for resources/DLC. We are not completely closed to the idea, and we will certainly consider it if the trends and needs of our users change.

But the importing system is simple enough to require very little getting used to. WAAAAAY less than anything else involved in game development (which can take years of time and effort).

I'm sorry that this is inconvenient to you, but everyone has something they find inconvenient. If it's not a software-breaking bug and you're not a majority in wanting something changed, you just have to work your way around it. If you can't or won't, then you have to decide whether the program is really worth it. This is true for every piece of software out there.

4. I'm going to lock this thread now, and I will ask you not to make another one. This thread has turned into a bunch of arguments that moderators have to come in and manage, and it's really unnecessary.
 
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