Rewoked Critical hit system idea

Oddball

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So i had this idea on how to rework critical hits so the player can choose when they get a crit and with what skill. The default crit modifyer would have to be *1 for this to work. Basicly, you have skills that feed off MP and don't ever crit. Then in another skill type, you have the same skills that completley empty TP after use, but in there formulas the damage/healing is multiplyed by ((a.tp/2+1)) (if max TP is 10)

This could (potentially) add a lot of player choice to a game. "Do i want to crit for *1.5 for sevral turns in a row? or do i want to go big and crit for *4?" "Do i want to deal lots of damage to this enemy, or do i want to make sure this or that ally stays alive with an effective heal?" "Do I need to use this skill that applies a state upon criting, or do i want to use the skill that runs a common event on critting?"
 
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CraneSoft

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Not sure if I understand right what's TP value has to with crits, Is there anything stopping the player from just picking the best possible crit or the best heal to finish the fights in 1 turn instead of 24?
 
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Oddball

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...to finish the fights in 1 turn instead of 24?
If a fight goes on for 24 turns, players are going to lose interest
I guess in order for this to work, TP would have to start on empty and go up by one every turn
 

CraneSoft

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TP would have to start on empty and go up by one every turn
So instead of "stronger skills/limit breaks consuming more TP", it's "same skills that does more critical damage / does extra things the more TP you have" ? Empty TP at start + 1 every turn doesn't really sound fundamentally different from the default TP system on paper since while a player can choose the number of crit they want, most would ideally aim for the best possible crit unless you can make the "lower-tier criticals" offer something unique and being worth using, otherwise it would just needlessly drag out battles.
 

Oddball

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Why are you adressing me specificly? This was supposed to be for everyone to discuss
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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So instead of an actual crit, its just more of "spend more/different resource for the skill to do more"...

Its sounds not really that different from the usual implementation of MP and TP, especially if you implement it that way (separate skill types for the two versions)..

IMHO, it would probably have more impact or look more different if you implement it in a way that there is simply a toggle button to switch between the MP and TP versions while in the skill selection window..

But yeah, you need to balance it in a way that not waiting to get full TP before people use the TP version is highly viable..

PS: Its pretty normal to people to address you because

1) You're the original poster
2) Before I replied, only the two of you are talking here
 
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Oddball

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@Engr. Adiktuzmiko Sorry
@CraneSoft So, somthing like a state thats applied when its regular, but an upgraded version of the state when its critical? or maybe the regular has a chance of applying a state. and the critical garuntees it?
 

TheoAllen

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If the TP increase +1 constantly, it is going to be dragged. Because to acquire the maximum multiplier, you have to survive 10 turns (maximum 10 TP). You might argue "But the player may choose not to wait that long and just use 5 TP (or lesser) to boost the skill magnitude" which is also correct. There is a reason (I think) that why the TP is recharged every time you get hit (and you didn't mention that you will get TP boost while getting hit here), it's to provide "shortcut" to the maximum TP value, because in the player perspective (at least, personally), using the maximum value of something is satisfying.

My suggestion would be to provide a shortcut to get the maximum TP while balancing the whole game around it. It's a good idea honestly, even I personally use it but with a different implementation.
 

kairi_key

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This whole idea remind me of Octopath Traveler, where you accumulate 1 BP at each turn's end and can use BP up to 3 points at most to give bonus power to any/every skills (except the ultimate skill of each job that need 3 BP to activate anyway).

Let's also think of this math...
If you gain 1 TP each turn.....
You have a special skill that has 100 HP damage. You use that skill 2 times in a row. You'll deal 300 HP damage in total.
However, on turn 1 you decided to do something else that doesn't use TP. On second turn you then deal 200 HP damage.
The question now will be how will you balance the MP magic skill or normal attack to also make waiting for high multiplier attack worthwhile. If the magic does not deal more than 101-110 damage then waiting for that multiplier doesn't seems to be worthwhile. I think that is another factor to think about.

And also how TP is accumulated in a single battle is also something to think about. And also if the TP is preserved, but I'll guess that it won't be, lol.

Also, I've played one game that did something like this too. That game make it so that the amount of user's TP add bonus to every skills they can use. And the enemies also has the same mechanics. However, in that game, when you get hit, your TP get depleted instead. So in one boss fight, you will also have to either deal damage that is high enough to deplete boss' TP, or just outright use a skill that deal direct damage to TP to help your team survive better.
 

Wavelength

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@Oddball Just a friendly reminder since you've posted several "implementation"-type posts in Game Mechanics Design recently - GMD is for purely conceptual discussion; how to implement something with states/eventing/formulas in RPG Maker should never be the main idea of a message here. The "how-to's" often obfuscate good game design discussion.

As far as the topic at hand - if I understand it correctly, it's treating TP as a "token"-style resource that you earn by using standard (MP) skills, and then spend to empower your TP skills (which drain your entire gauge). I think that sounds quite cool - kind of lets you earn trump cards over the course of a long battle, and spend them as you need to if you feel yourself falling behind in pace. With that said, aside from the idea that both these TP skills and "critical hits" can both do big damage, I don't see this as a replacement for Critical Hits, but rather a replacement for a standard TP system! I think it could work alongside Critical Hits just fine.
 

Oddball

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@Wavelength neither of the games im working on right now are going to use this system. Also, this idea was inspired by your game "How badly do you want it?" Were all the skills you made have a MP or TP variant, but no other difference
 

Wavelength

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@Wavelength neither of the games im working on right now are going to use this system. Also, this idea was inspired by your game "How badly do you want it?" Were all the skills you made have a MP or TP variant, but no other difference
It's great to hear that my game inspired an idea! :D I think you connected the dots well, because the point of being able to spend either MP or TP in How Badly was - similar to your own idea - to offer the player a "trump card" they can only use a few times per in-game day to get an advantage in a tough battle (or simply finish enemies off really quickly).

I've since reworked and refined the concept even further, thanks largely to some great advice I got in this thread. The remake of How Badly has Cooldowns for (almost) all spells, and allows you to cast the spell for free anytime it's off cooldown. Cooldowns persist between battles. The big idea is that MP is still your trump card - you can pay MP to use a spell that's still on cooldown - but with AP (and the need to build it up) gone, combat will involve a lot less "waiting" and a lot more "blasting stuff in creative ways".
 

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