RM PSX Resources allowed in Ace?

[felsenstern]

I found a RIP of RM PSX Resources and wondered if the ownership of RM PSX allows the use of it's resource in Ace (like the PC-Based Versions). Or is an official release of that material in a resource pack thinkable?

Spoiler

 

[Celianna]

Moved to product discussion.

My guess would be no, you cannot use it. We officially support RPG Maker XP, VX and VX Ace (with IG), and if you own any of those engines, you could use the RTP in another RM engine. But outside of those engines? Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Sharm]

I asked about this a while back and got a "no". It's probably because you'd have to break the terms of use to get the art off the console and onto a computer in the first place. It'd be difficult to use anyway, the tiles are 28x28.

 

[Mako]

My 2 cents 

What I think: It should be allowed, you once (or somebody did) purchased a game from Enterbrain.

What you could do: You could use them and just go for it. These text pad agreements aside, Enterbrain would have to sell a hard case that you can use it only in an enterbrain product but not that one, or outside that one, but other stuff you can, just not that stuff. Pretty tough case that will probably get thrown out the second EB files.

What you should do: Just wait for Degica to re-release it, pay for it (again) and they will give you the magical fairy dust notepad that says now you can use it in [insert engine here] for now.

Ether way that grumpy sister up there works for Degica and by proxy is a representative for them so you have your answer. 

 

[Nathanial]

My 2 cents 

What I think: It should be allowed, you once (or somebody did) purchased a game from Enterbrain.

What you could do: You could use them and just go for it. These text pad agreements aside, Enterbrain would have to sell a hard case that you can use it only in an enterbrain product but not that one, or outside that one, but other stuff you can, just not that stuff. Pretty tough case that will probably get thrown out the second EB files.

What you should do: Just wait for Degica to re-release it, pay for it (again) and they will give you the magical fairy dust notepad that says now you can use it in [insert engine here] for now.

Ether way that grumpy sister up there works for Degica and by proxy is a representative for them so you have your answer. 

You can't get the resources without ripping them from the game. A big no-no.

We don't have plans on re-releasing a 15+ year old video game console exclusive. 

The PSX RPG Maker isn't really an 'engine' it's more along the lines of a sandboxed game/toy. There's absolutely no water to be held to justify doing it at this time. The user would have to sell a hard case for ripping resources out of a video game and using them without permission from the company... Not Enterbrain having a hard time...

With all due respect, it's very bad advice suggesting EB wouldn't have a case. Quite the contrary.

 

[Mako]

We don't have plans on re-releasing a 15+ year old video game console exclusive. 

Age is nothing but a number! Never say never that's what I always say.... except I just did. 

Tons of backgrounds, sound effects, music, and a number of other stuff. Be an near instant conversion (except sprites) just a thought if you want to get a extra few bucks around here. 

 

[Nathanial]

Age is nothing but a number! Never say never that's what I always say.... except I just did. 

Tons of backgrounds, sound effects, music, and a number of other stuff. Be an near instant conversion (except sprites) just a thought if you want to get a extra few bucks around here. 

I didn't say it's impossible for us to one day release the resources, but don't hold your breath on us converting a Playstation game to be used on PC or anything like that.

Ripping the resources and using them in your game right now... you're not allowed to do that. And suggesting EB's "case would be thrown out" is complete nonsense.

 

[Mako]

I didn't say it's impossible for us to one day release the resources, but don't hold your breath on us converting a Playstation game to be used on PC or anything like that.

Not the game itself obviously. And honestly your talking to one of the people who bought a "toy box" console exclusive resource from you guys already the PS2 version music pack. Or the console exclusive DS stuff all over the place, don't really see that big of a difference. Save from the sprites being off.

If I'm not mistaken probably am, the manual says you can distribute and use your game freely

You would deny the power of the world-wide royalty free licence!? Blasphemer! Like I said reading that be a very hard sell to a judge with all due respect. Your call if it was me I wouldn't. Nathaniel can sound pretty legit on the phone, he might be the next Johnny Cochran.

 

[Nathanial]

Not the game itself obviously. And honestly your talking to one of the people who bought a "toy box" console exclusive resource from you guys already the PS2 version music pack. Or the console exclusive DS stuff all over the place, don't really see that big of a difference. Save from the sprites being off.

If I'm not mistaken probably am, the manual says you can distribute and use your game freely

You would deny the power of the world-wide royalty free licence!? Blasphemer! Like I said reading that be a very hard sell to a judge with all due respect. Your call if it was me I wouldn't. Nathaniel can sound pretty legit on the phone, he might be the next Johnny Cochran.

Interesting, do you have any legal background yourself, Mako?

Ripping the resources out of the game and using them in a different engine.. Not very sure that would fly... Clearly the intention was for the PSX title. The answer is we don't allow it right now. 

If you want to challenge it, that's your choice. I wouldn't though. Maybe one day we'll have a legit format for the sprites. As it sits.. you'd have to be ripping resources out of a protected format intended to be used with the RPG Maker PSX disc only.

Even if you considered that (oddly contradicting itself, legally speaking) insert a EULA, it's been overwritten by now.

With that said... a side note.. but how were you even supposed to SELL an RPG Maker game for that format? Didn't it require the RPG Maker PSX game? Seems so odd to me.

 

[Mako]

Interesting, do you have any legal background yourself, Mako?

Ripping the resources out of the game and using them in a different engine.. Not very sure that would fly... Clearly the intention was for the PSX title. The answer is we don't allow it right now. 

If you want to challenge it, that's your choice. I wouldn't though. Maybe one day we'll have a legit format for the sprites. As it sits.. you'd have to be ripping resources out of a protected format intended to be used with the RPG Maker PSX disc only.

With that said... a side note.. but how were you even supposed to SELL an RPG Maker game for that format? Didn't it require the RPG Maker PSX game? Seems so odd to me.

it was a 10 hour course online... Not only that but it clearly says you can even sell the components as long as it's clearly marked.  Sell! ROFL

 

[Nathanial]

it was a 10 hour course online... Not only that but it clearly already says you can even sell the components as long as it's cleanly marked.  Sell! ROFL

It also says you can't. That's what I mean by it contradicting itself.

 

[Mako]

Translation error. The original Japanese manual read "in any other commercial product"

As it stands you can already legally sell components from RPG maker psx. Weather it's supported here or not is entirely up to you guys for sure. But legally I dont see how they have any option it's pretty clear.

 

[Oddball]

you could always make/commission someone to make the resources that look close to those. That would be my suggestion. Otherwise, You'll probably get sued 

 

[Lunarea]

Or is an official release of that material in a resource pack thinkable?

Whether this is possible or not depends on the kind of contracts there are with the artists who created the resources. Some contracts are specific to the one format (ex. only for use with Playstation version), while others give a little more freedom and make conversion possible. As always, we'll pass on that there's interest for this, but the request might not result in any packs.

Either way, though, you can't legally use ripped material.

 

[Mako]

Whether this is possible or not depends on the kind of contracts there are with the artists who created the resources. Some contracts are specific to the one format (ex. only for use with

Playstation version), while others give a little more freedom and make conversion possible. As always, we'll pass on that there's interest for this, but the request might not result in any packs.

Either way, though, you can't legally use ripped material.

What about the part where it specifically says you can? Even goes as far as to say you can sell parts of it... I think this is one rare case where you guys have been saying something for awhile and kinda stuck on it.

Lets be clear the license says you can sell, distribute, and use parts or all of the engine how you see fit. You only have to write a letter. Yes this even means ripping.

funny case in point somebody made a Colombine shooter with RPG maker PSX the authors freely distributed it, but Enterbrian issued a take down. They did not comply, and that was the end of the story really. Site went down but there was a pretty big piece in game informer.

Just get the hint you guys are not really up to speed on the old licenses. But it's not really your job or area to be.

Just for pure curiosity I'll have my attouney (a real one) give this a once over going to trademark my game's name and register my company I might as well show him this to can't hurt Friday.

 

[Nathanial]

What about the part where it specifically says you can? Even goes as far as to say you can sell parts of it... I think this is one rare case where you guys have been saying something for awhile and kinda stuck on it.

It's simple, it no longer applies... But, most importantly, as I'm sure your lawyer will point out, it was never legally binding in the first place and we have EULA's that well establish otherwise now days. It's also quite clear the manual of the PSX version was referring to games made with the PSX version of RPG Maker.  It was a different time and the company in charge of that isn't in charge of the Maker Series anymore. You should know that after your 10 hour legal course, no? 

A game manual of all things, without using any proper legal definitions, especially mistranslated by all means won't hold any water in the court of law.

One other thing, Enterbrain's property... Enterbrain also happens to be in Japan. Guess which court of law you'd most likely have to play ball in? I'll give you a hint, it would most likely not be in the jurisdiction of the United States of America.

Make sure you mention the reverse engineering and/or ripping processes to your attorney as well and let me know what he/she thinks of that. Ask them how Sony might feel about it as well, while you're at it. 

PS: Why are you talking to a lawyer about filing a trademark and registering your company? That's rather basic stuff. I hope you're not paying too much for that... (if anything at all) especially with your experience in law. Rather basic forms by comparison, no? If you need help, I've done company registrations in America before and would be happy to assist you if need be.

 

[Mako]

$30 bucks I'm in NYS stuff is wierd here.

Your right! I don't know that much but I do know that even in Japan you cannot advertise and say something and do the compete opposite cause it's 'old'.

Reverse engineering is not needed I hit play and my microphone picks it up not circumventing Sony at all not that it applies to you guys.

IF it doesn't mean what it says aren't they liable for deceptive business practices and advertising? Quite clearly says you can sell the contents of this game. Parts or all don't really need to be a legal expert to figure that out.

not to mention you can actually hear the sounds through a standard CD player not needing a playstation at all.

Be like the samurai pack stating it was for commercial use and you guys saying it's not.

I'm thinking they will have to write this off as a loss. I do know in order to make any basic copywrite claim you have to prove the other party knowingly stole and infringed on your propery without consent. And if a document created by Enterbrian (or its proxies) doesn't count then 99% of the content on this site won't hold up in court. It's only a text pad as well. (Less then a pack in manual)

 

[Nathanial]

The problem is you keep missing the part where it's clearly talking about the PSX version of RPG Maker titled "RPG Maker" and it never makes any mention about being able to use the content in any of the RPG Maker engines. The way it's written also makes it not legally valid as any form of a contract.

It's not advertising if it's in a manual, either.

Not really sure where you're getting the idea that because the manual says that... that you're suddenly entitled to rip resources from it and use it in any of the current engines. 

Of course we wouldn't be liable for anything, we're not the same company. 

It's also pretty clear the original post is referring to the graphic material in specific... Don't try to turn this into an audio thing. To retrieve the graphics it would require processes your lawyer would probably not agree with.

I encourage you to speak with your attorney about everything. Link him to this thread. Have him get back to me about all of this and have him send me his/her cover matter. My email address is marketing@rpgmakerweb.com I'd love to get their thoughts on all of this, as I really think you're misinterpreting some very important information.

I also believe that your lawyer would agree with me on this when I say this... but you shouldn't give what amounts to legal advice if you don't actually practice the law yourself in any way shape or form. A 10 hour course amounts to nearly nothing in the said field (no offense) and it could get you into trouble. 

 

[Mako]

Says nowhere in that document only on PSX I cntr+f it and put my super glasses on.

Try to open your mind Nathanial! What you see is a mirage created by years of no! How else is one to sell parts of the engine without in fact getting said parts? It also says on the last page of you do not agree to these terms contact for a refund. I don't see where I said Degica Is responsible at all, in fact I've said you guys aren't. neither are you the enforcers of a really poorly worded agreement that basically says the opposite of your stance on the issue good sir.

(Class was a joke you obviously missed)

 

[Nathanial]

Says nowhere in that document only on PSX I cntr+f it and put my super glasses on.

Try to open your mind Nathanial! What you see is a mirage created by years of no! How else is one to sell parts of the engine without in fact getting said parts? It also says on the last page of you do not agree to these terms contact for a refund. I don't see where I said Degica Is responsible at all, in fact I've said you guys aren't. neither are you the enforcers of a really poorly worded agreement that basically says the opposite of your stance on the issue good sir.

(Class was a joke you obviously missed)

It also says nowhere in the manual that it's for use in the entire series either, does it? It says "RPG Maker". The manual is referring to the video game of the name "RPG Maker". The same game the manual is ... well, the manual for. It's very simple.

Any judge would look at that manual insert and laugh at it as being legally binding to allow the materials to be used in the rest of the Maker series... of which are completely separate products with separate product names and marks.

We don't condone it, and we ask for basic respect of our wishes. If we choose to release these materials (graphics and audio, free or paid) in the future, that will be a whole different matter.

I'm going to close this as it's being derailed. The official response is no, we don't recognize using unofficially released on rpgmakerweb.com materials from the Playstation video game RPG Maker nor do we support the said title for obvious reasons (which I'm sure you're aware of). 

I hope your discussion with your attorney goes well and that your business registration goes smoothly. Please keep me updated via PM or my email address I previously listed if you have any further input on the matter.