RMMV: Idea for some interactivity in combat, thoughts?

[QuinncyCrow]

Hello friends from across the community, I have an idea, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.


I'm working on a RMMV project that is going to be pretty deeply story-driven, but I also want to include an interesting combat system because I expect the game to be decently long. As much as I enjoy the classic-style RPG battle system, I'd like to have something with a little more spice. I'd like to introduce a button-input system for attacks, skills, and even when defending. So for instance, when the enemy attacks you, the screen will show a series of arrows and you have to press all the correct arrows in sequence within the time limit, if you do, the attack will do less damage, if you fail the input, you take normal damage. The opposite would be true when you attack or use a skill, you have to do the right input, and if you do, you do more damage, or less if you fail. The length and complexity of the input would vary depending on how far along you are in the game, or depending on the difficulty of the specific fight.


As far as I can tell, there are two specific things I need in order to accomplish this, I need a script or some complicated eventing system that will fire a common event every time you either use a skill or are targeted by an enemy. The second thing would be the ability to have the game react to specific key inputs and have different outcomes depending on the key used. As far as I know, there is no way to do this through eventing. My question is twofold, what do you all think of this idea, and what would be the best way to implement this system?

 

[Wavelength]

Yeah, that's pretty much what you'd need to do to implement it.  As a hint, you can run common events from the code.  Here's something I added in during the damage calculations (in my case the determine_crit method) to force a common event to run without interrupting any events that were already in play via the skill:


remembered_event = $game_temp.common_event_id
$game_temp.reserve_common_event(67)
SceneManager.scene.process_event
@result.critical = $game_switches[97]
$game_temp.reserve_common_event(remembered_event)


This would run Common Event #67, which was a microgame where you input button sequences or try to stop a meter in the right place, in order to earn a Crit on your skill (set using Switch #97 in the Common Event).


As far as what I think of the idea, I personally like this kind of stuff, but I think it should be used sparingly.  It's overkill to have to do "quick times" for every single action you take.  Maybe only on Ultimate moves.  Maybe only in certain situations.  In my own game I only trigger the Common Event when a character got close to critting by the normal calculations, but failed to - the microgame is there to give them a second chance at the crit based on their reflexes.


I also know that opinions toward this kind of thing register all over the scale; some people love timed hits on every attack and think it makes the system more fun, some think it's annoying, and some will refuse to play any game where the combat system has that.

 

[QuinncyCrow]

oh, so I can run common events from the damage formula?

 

[terrorchan]

There was a script for this in RMVXA, no? MogHunter has already made something similar in MV. I'm sure if you wait a while he'll port that one over...

 

[Wavelength]

oh, so I can run common events from the damage formula?

Never tried this myself (what I was describing was in the script editor itself, and the syntax is what Ace uses not MV), but you could certainly try it!

 

[Ellie Jane]

For the actual key inputs, Touchfuzzy has made a tutorial on this:

 

[QuinncyCrow]

For the actual key inputs, Touchfuzzy has made a tutorial on this:

This will come in handy if I can figure out how to get events to run during attacks. thanks

 

[Titanhex]

I have done a small handful of tutorials in VX Ace on button input processing. I've also made minigames out of it and designed a mini-script snippet that works like FF8 or Mario RPG where you can hit a button after attacking to do additional damage.


It's also possible to make a Custom Evented Battle System, and I've taught that to rookies, but they're no small task.


Method of implementation aside, you have to consider how much of a focus this is in your game.


If this is the method of which all battle takes place, then you need to make it tie into the game and be central to the design of your game. If it is just to make battle more interactive, you need to ask yourself why. Some tools are fun, but they are only fun under certain context. 


This sounds like it's going to be a major part of the gameplay when it comes to battle. And it doesn't sound like you're putting it in because it's part of the game's central theming. I would argue go with a simple battle system if you want the emphasis to be on the story. Or better yet, make the battle story-driven, and tie the way it plays into the story and theme of the game.

Otherwise, just keep it basic and fast-paced so you can be out of battle quickly and back into the story. 

 

[Wavelength]

Method of implementation aside, you have to consider how much of a focus this is in your game.


If this is the method of which all battle takes place, then you need to make it tie into the game and be central to the design of your game. If it is just to make battle more interactive, you need to ask yourself why. Some tools are fun, but they are only fun under certain context. 


This sounds like it's going to be a major part of the gameplay when it comes to battle. And it doesn't sound like you're putting it in because it's part of the game's central theming. I would argue go with a simple battle system if you want the emphasis to be on the story. Or better yet, make the battle story-driven, and tie the way it plays into the story and theme of the game.

I think there's some wisdom in this thought - good design rarely includes things that are there for their own sake, and when function follows form (e.g. the battle ties into the game's theme and motifs), it's going to feel better for the player.  All else being equal, Titanhex is absolutely right.


On the other hand, however, I think that "making the battles more strategic/interactive/fun" is a fine goal in and of itself - the classic FF1-style combat has been so played out by this point that most people who enjoyed it at the time are now looking for something more.  Star Ocean 4 is a good example of a game whose combat didn't really tie into the story at all and seemed to be there for its own sake, but the battle system was universally hailed as the game's strongest element.  While I do wish they did a better job connecting combat to the story and its aesthetics of hope and exploration, I still radically preferred the battle system that was there to a traditional, simple battle system.


Just my two cents.

 

[QuinncyCrow]

Hmmm a lot to consider.

 

[Valryia]

So, we are talking about an possible Legend of the Dragoon "Addition System" here.

 

[QuinncyCrow]

So, we are talking about an possible Legend of the Dragoon "Addition System" here.

I haven't played that game, so possibly?

 

[Valryia]

I haven't played that game, so possibly?

For reference, cryaotic made an recent let's plays of that great, if sadly obscure, PS1 JRPG.


To explain it quickly here, you need to press a button in sequence for your attacks to connect properly.

 

[QuinncyCrow]

For reference, cryaotic made an recent let's plays of that great, if sadly obscure, PS1 JRPG.


To explain it quickly here, you need to press a button in sequence for your attacks to connect properly.

I did hear that it inspired a lot of toby fox's Undertale. But basically I'm mainly referring to a system where button inputs would increase damage dealt or decrease damage taken. So I suppose it would be similar yeah.

 

[Titanhex]

If your game is story-centric, you should make the story the main focus. A complex battle system would take away from that.


As Wavelength pointed out though, making all aspects of your game fun is important. A battle system can still be fun, simple, and not take focus from the story.


Simplifying the battle system is a great way to do this.



You may feel pressure to use all aspects of the battle system available. There's an erroneous idea in game dev that more features = more fun.


Instead, I suggest using subtractive game design and eliminate unnecessary features or features that don't support the game's theme. Being thoughtful about what you put in to the game is imperative to making a cohesive experience that's supported on all sides.


Keeping the input system simple but engaging can be done a number of ways. Finding the right way that supports the narrative is all about your exercise in creativity. But you definitely don't need a complex system to do it.


You can make battles narrative driven, creating a narrative based conflict that must be resolved in many encounters. Or you can make them short and easy, pacing them out, to give more emphasis to the story that's unfolding.


It's up to you as a designer to figure it out, and it may take a lot of practice.


The point is, adding the input system needs to function beyond a simple gimmick. If you add it as a feature on top of the already intricate RPG system, you may be overemphasizing combat in relation to story. Which is fine if your story is simply an element of the game, and not the all-encompassing focus of the game.

 

[Saboera]

It would really depend on how and why you are implementing this. This is the sort of thing that might feel novel at first but end up being tedious in long term if implemented for the wrong reasons.


A good implementation of this would be if you're playing as a spellcaster and the gameplay is about chaining incantations to defeat enemies. In this particular case, it would fit the theme and be considered a core feature. Hell, for an hilarious example, it could work if a game was about poets duking it out with verses.


A bad implementation would be something like the default RPG maker combat system with this tacked on, having the player enter a key sequence every time they attack, defend or cast something. If used sparsely or thematically with like... a bard class, it could work, but otherwise it would get old really quick.


You could also consider making things timing based instead with a single input, similar to how Super Mario RPG on SNES worked. It was pretty engaging but again, it's one of those things that most likely feel a lot better to play with a controller than a keyboard.