[RMVXAce] What are the correct rates of experience and money drops to give to enemies?

[GreenBanana]

What are the correct rates of experience and money to set each monster to drop?

The default rate for total experience to reach a level in RMVXAce is the following:

f(x)=ROUND(30*(x-1)^(0.9+30/250)*x*(x+1)/(6+x^2/50/30)+(x-1)*20,0)where x is equal to current levelTo determine the experience required for the next level, we use the following:

e(x)=f(x)-f(x-1)By default, there are six levels of weapons and five levels of four sets of non-accessory armor.
Assuming spacing these evenly across 99 levels, you can expect to upgrade weapons every 16.5 levels and armor every 19.8 levels.

The rise over run for weapons is as follows:

400/16.5 for levels 1-16.

2500/16.5 for levels 16-33.

3000/16.5 for levels 33-49.

9000/16.5 for levels 49-66.

15000/16.5 for levels 66-82.

The rise over run for armor is as follows:

800/19.8 for levels 1-19.

6800/19.8 for levels 19-39.

12000/19.8 for levels 39-59.

12000/19.8 for levels 59-79.

This combines into:

600/18.15 for levels 1-18.

4650/18.15 for levels 18-36.

7500/18.15 for levels 36-54.

10500/18.15 for levels 54-72.

If you plan out what level you expect to fight each monster at, how would you then determine how much experience and money each monster should give out?

 

[whitesphere]

There is no one right answer.  Why?   You can easily modify or create new armor, weapons, skills, items and spells, as well as control the attributes of each character class, at each level.  You can also control how rapidly each class goes up in level.  There are 4 factors you can control.

So, how long do you want the game to be?  And how much grinding do you want the player to have to do to afford the next type of armor?  These are the real key factors.  For minimal grinding, you want the monsters to drop a lot of XP and gold.  For a long grind, they need to drop much less XP and gold, relative to the cost of the next level and/or equipment upgrade.

 

And, will there be different party members?  If so, that factors in as well.  Perhaps the Mage doesn't need much armor but does need books purchased to learn Spells...

 

And, perhaps armor isn't always a linear upgrade?  Maybe there is Ice Armor which helps protect against ice attacks and Fire Armor which protects against fire attacks...

 

That is why there is no simple, mathematical answer, due to the huge number of variables.  

The only way I've found to get the right answer is extensive playtesting.  Start the game and play through it.  Does it seem to take too long to get to the next level or enough gold for equipment?  Then bump up the monster drops in the area or give one-shot rewards for completing quests.

If the levels race by too quickly, then lower XP and/or gold drops. Or, perhaps, make the random encounter monsters stronger, so the lucrative XP drops are riskier player encounters.

Playtesting is really the only golden answer here.

 

[kiedisticelixer]

Thats the least of your concerns until the game is ready to be shipped. You need a few playtests to see whats the best balance to YOUR game. What should be the lvl the players should be around the final boss? 30? 50? Choose and adapt your values accordingly.

 

[GreenBanana]

You can easily modify or create new armor, weapons, skills, items and spells, as well as control the attributes of each character class, at each level.  You can also control how rapidly each class goes up in level.  There are 4 factors you can control.

Very good, I see that you've opened the program before.

So, how long do you want the game to be?  And how much grinding do you want the player to have to do to afford the next type of armor?  These are the real key factors.  For minimal grinding, you want the monsters to drop a lot of XP and gold.  For a long grind, they need to drop much less XP and gold, relative to the cost of the next level and/or equipment upgrade.

Hence you see where the notion of a "question" comes in in the topic post of this thread.

And, will there be different party members?

Boy, you really earned those 140 posts, didn't you?

And, perhaps armor isn't always a linear upgrade? 

Where did you read that? The topic post of this thread?

That is why there is no simple, mathematical answer, due to the huge number of variables. 

Yeah, I hear there's a lot of math involved in programming. What a bummer!

The only way I've found to get the right answer is extensive playtesting. 

So you don't know the right answer, because you haven't test played every game.

Does it seem to take too long to get to the next level or enough gold for equipment?  Then bump up the monster drops in the area or give one-shot rewards for completing quests.

Don't know. Haven't finished the game yet. Still working on statting the monsters and how much experience or money they drop.

If the levels race by too quickly, then lower XP and/or gold drops. Or, perhaps, make the random encounter monsters stronger, so the lucrative XP drops are riskier player encounters.

Hence the need for questions and math.

Playtesting is really the only golden answer here.

That's all well and good for golden answers. Now how about some scientific ones?

Thats the least of your concerns until the game is ready to be shipped.

Just use e-mail.

 

[CrazyCrab]

Very good, I see that you've opened the program before.

Hence you see where the notion of a "question" comes in in the topic post of this thread.

Boy, you really earned those 140 posts, didn't you?

Where did you read that? The topic post of this thread?

Yeah, I hear there's a lot of math involved in programming. What a bummer!

So you don't know the right answer, because you haven't test played every game.

Don't know. Haven't finished the game yet. Still working on statting the monsters and how much experience or money they drop.

Hence the need for questions and math.

That's all well and good for golden answers. Now how about some scientific ones?

Just use e-mail.

If you're going to be this cynical, don't expect anyone to help you.

Besides, like others said, there is no magical 'formula'. If there was one, everyone would be using it.

You just have to keep replaying and see when you're encountering trouble when fighting basic enemies.

 

[whitesphere]

If you're going to be this cynical, don't expect anyone to help you.

Besides, like others said, there is no magical 'formula'. If there was one, everyone would be using it.

You just have to keep replaying and see when you're encountering trouble when fighting basic enemies.

If there were such a magic formula, I think RPG Maker would incorporate it directly.  

Personally, I think the flexibility RPG maker has is why it's still around after 25 years.  It's easy to make a simple system to build RPGs.  I did it many years ago on my Atari 800XL.  But, the simpler the system, the more rigid the games which come out of it.  My tiny RPG system played as an RPG with a single goal.  It was basically a map editor with one hard-wired event.

 

[amerk]

What the hell does somebody's post count even matter? Whitesphere's responses are about the best you're going to get. There is no secret society of wizards that are going to pull a bunch of numbers out of their asses and spread some sort of magical charm that's going to make balancing a game an instantaneous event. Every game is different, and it's going to depend on how long the game is, how much of a grind you want, what types of equipment you are using, where your focus on stats will be.

 

[Andar]

What are the correct rates of experience and money to set each monster to drop?


If you plan out what level you expect to fight each monster at, how would you then determine how much experience and money each monster should give out?

Those questions can't be answered, because there is too much required info that has been left out. And that info changes depending on the specific game.
For example concerning Gold - as a general guide, a monster should drop more gold than is needed for healing the damage done by the monster, or the player might get stuck with no way to continue to heal. So how much are your healing potions and inns worth in the game?


If they're cheap, then you can give less gold than if they are expensive - and if your maps don't have shops or inns, then the question of gold return is simply useless.


Or the next missing info: where and how many times will the player encounter the enemies? With levels, the actors gain new skills and better values, and a beginner enemy becomes harmless, changing the entire encounter dynamic.


And another info for you: The default classes and skills were made as examples, and a lot of users have already discovered that they are NOT balanced to be used in every game - you need to modify them to get them balanced, and that also includes modifying the XP-curves...


So no, there is no true answer to how many XP and Gold an enemy shoudl give - that always depends on the specific game and needs to be determined by playtesting.

 

[Tsukihime]

Hence the need for questions and math.

Questions were presented, none of which you felt were relevant because they weren't presented in numbers and symbols.


How does one even begin to create a mathematical model for a problem they don't really know how to quantify, or what they have to consider?

 

[Uzuki]

What the hell does somebody's post count even matter? Whitesphere's responses are about the best you're going to get. There is no secret society of wizards that are going to pull a bunch of numbers out of their asses and spread some sort of magical charm that's going to make balancing a game an instantaneous event. Every game is different, and it's going to depend on how long the game is, how much of a grind you want, what types of equipment you are using, where your focus on stats will be.

Wait, hold on. We're not a secret [SIZE=12.222222328186035px]society of wizards that pull a bunch of numbers out of our asses and use magical charms to balance games? Well this has been a waste of time.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12.222222328186035px]*Throws away numbers-from-ass-grabbarator and cursed bewitching eye*[/SIZE]

 

[Mouser]

Ok, you want numbers? Here you go:

1) Look at your first 'boss' mob.

2) Decide what level you want the party to be at when they fight it. You can either work backwards from the 'endgame' boss, after you decide what level you want the party to be at when they reach the end, or you can start at the beginning. If you don't have an ass handy to pull that number out of, ask your cats. Mine are always helping by 'typing' on my keyboard with me when I'm working.

3) Decide how many encounters you want the party to have to fight to get there. You get this by figuring out how much total time you think that 'chapter' of the game should take, subtract the time the player spends walking around, talking to NPC's, and generally figuring out what to do. Divide that time by the average time per battle. If you don't know the average time per battle, time to pull another number out from somewhere.

4) Now decide whether you like big numbers or small ones. 100 HP > 1000 HP if the first character fights mobs that hit for 10 HP and the second fights mobs that hit for 200. The same goes for XP (and levels, and stats, and pretty much every other number in the game).

5) Put all that into your spreadsheet and read the numbers from the bottom.

*hopes he doesn't get kicked out of the Secret Society of Wizards for revealing the secret recipe*

Edit: for number three you could also start with the average time per battle, and do the division to get the average number of battles you need. It works either way.

I also forgot the last step: Playtest your game, where you find out that none of the numbers you came up with are right, so you have to start adjusting everything. Adjust, play, test, lather, rinse, repeat until done. Then let other people playtest your game, where you find that other people don't like any of the numbers you painstakingly created, so it's back to adjust (again), let other people playtest, lather, rinse, repeat (again), until done (for now).

 

[AlliedG]

The default rpg maker system is just placeholders. Many users use fixed exp curves to make levelling a lot easier to manage.

We are not here to design your game or determine how much exp or gold your characters need to level up.

Also sort out your attitude - you ask for help and act like a douche - great first impression