Rogue Class Skills

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Grunwave, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Could use suggestions from our community.

    Trying to piece together 25 unique skills for my Rogue archetype. So far I have:

    -Stealth
    -Vanish(better form of stealth with different mechanic)
    -Hamstring(Lowers targets evasion)
    -Blind(lower enemy's hit rate)
    -Bleed(physical DOT)
    -Backstab
    -Detect Stealth(reveals stealthed enemies)
    -Penetrate Barriers(state that allows rogue to ignore magic shields)
    -Cheapshot(free attack that ignores target's armor)
    -Disorient(force target to wait longer for their turn)
    -"Fan of Knives" type attack(physical AOE)
    -Additional attacks
    -Ability to crit(other classes cannot)


    Thank you in advance for your insight,

    GEA
     
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  2. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    I don't design based on class stereotypes. But I do have some characters that invested their skill in finesse.
    So far, I have ...

    > Flashbang = One stun duration all enemies. This comes with an expensive cost. Either cooldown or high MP/AP requirement will be good.
    > Smokescreen = More like flashbang but party side. In my game, it will evade all incoming attack for one time. An actor will evade all attack to one enemy, may not evade the next attack from a different enemy.
    > Agile Hunter (Perk/Passive) = Increase evasion rate by a certain percentage per turn whenever gets hit. Rate resets after successfully evade.
    > Hitmark = Mark an enemy. Increase damage to the marked enemy.
    > Blind shot (Perk/passive) = At the end of the turn, chance to randomly shot an enemy.
    > Steady Aim = Sharp boost to damage for the next attack.
    > Scattershot = AoE, Damage increased based on how few enemies.
     
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  3. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    > Agile Hunter (Perk/Passive) = Increase evasion rate by a certain percentage per turn whenever gets hit. Rate resets after successfully evade.

    -That is a fun idea =)
     
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  4. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I like to give my rogue-type characters combo-based abilities, as well as abilities that interact with one another. Here's a couple rough designs from a divine assassin character:

    - Radiant Spike: Light hybrid damage (2x or 8x vs Undead or if target's HP is 100%) to one enemy (an ambush ability, basically)
    - Feint: Reduce chance of being targeted (100%) for 5 turns and enable a single use of Dispatch to caster
    - Dispatch: Physical damage (8x or 12x vs incapacitated targets) and remove Feint to self (requires Feint)

    Note: In my game, "hybrid" damage refers to attacks that are based on both atk and mat, and are checked against both def and mdf.
     
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  5. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Combos might be a good way to go.
     
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  6. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    -sleight-of-hand/steal (increases loot)
    -detect weakness (reveals vulnerability to whole party)
    -dash (speeds up turn in exchange for accuracy)

    highly depends on the battle system tho.
     
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  7. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Could use detect weakness like a FF Libra.

    Makes sense for a rogue to scout-out the enemies. FF corrupted me with thoughts of white mages.
     
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  8. Redeye

    Redeye Chronicles Creator Veteran

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    When I think of Rogues I tend to think of "counterplay". A good rogue/assassin learns their enemy's greatest strengths/weaknesses and uses them against their victim. Some cool little ideas:

    Heartseeker
    - An attack that deals extra damage to foes above ~90% HP
    Coup de Grace - An attack that deals extra damage to foes below ~20% HP
    Shield Splitter - An attack that uses your foe's Defense parameter AGAINST them, dealing more damage the more Defense they have
    Knife Throw - Same as Shield Splitter, but uses the foe's Agility as the bonus damage

    They could also have an ambush attack that sacrifices their stealth for extra damage.

    Ambush - An attack that deals double/triple damage if you are stealthed, but removed your stealth upon usage

    A good rogue/assassin would also have a few tools at hand that would allow them to cripple / immobilize their foes for an easy kill, or perhaps the rogue can just have some basic debuffs at hand.

    Throw Bola - Stuns one foe (may want to give this skill a cooldown or a drawback of some sort to discourage spamming) (if stuns are not your thing, then this can also serve as an AGI debuff)
    Nihil Strike - Inflicts a DEF and MDF debuff, or something like that

    If you're willing to also make your rogue akin to a thief, then giving them some stealing skills would be cool.

    Pickpocket - Steal an item from a foe and deals some damage as a bonus
    Replace Item - Steal an item from a foe and plant a vial of poison, dealing damage over time
    Rob Blind - Steal an item from a foe and inflicts blindness
    Raid - Steal an item from all foes, but your greed leaves you unable to act for the next turn
    Steal Buffs - Removes all buffs from one foe, and you gain a copy of those buffs for yourself
     
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  9. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Redeye,

    A good half of these are viable for my current project.

    And even though I probably wont implement thieving, Stealing Buffs could be interesting.
     
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  10. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    If you use the ability to steal buffs (which IS cool) make sure you regulate it somehow. For example, buffs that make a boss invincible for X turns, allow the use of a super ability next turn (chargin' ma laz0r, then firin' ma laz0r!) and such probably aren't things you want players to gain. I suggest using Yanfly's State Categories plugin (which also requires buffs & states core) to easily regulate which buffs players can and cannot steal.
     
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  11. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    Dunno if my Thief will give you any ideas... Maybe my other "Rogue" type classes will give you some ideas? Hope that helps you.

    Thief
    Stealth
    Self. Target Rate 0% for 3 turns. Agility Down. Luck Up.

    Venom
    Single Enemy. Requires Dagger to Use. Damage Formula uses Agility + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Poison.

    Sting
    Single Enemy. Requires Katar to Use. Damage Formula uses Luck + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Stun or Paralyze.

    Silver Tongue
    Single Enemy. 50% reduction to Defense, Magic Defense, and Luck. Percentage Chance to inflict Confuse or Charm.

    Cheap Shot
    Single Enemy. Invoke Speed 9999 (to ensure Thief always goes first when using this). Damage Formula uses Agility + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Blind.

    Backstab
    1-4 Random Enemies. "Limit Break" that uses TP. Damage Formula uses Luck + MASSIVE Bonus Damage Number.

    Pirate
    Threaten
    Self. Target Rate 100% for 3 turns. Defense Up. Critical Hit Rate Up.

    Rally
    Whole Party. Agility Up. Luck Up.

    Grenade
    All Enemies. Damage Formula uses Luck + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Silence or Sleep.

    Swashbuckling
    4 Random Enemies. Requires Saber to Use. Damage Formula uses Agility + MINOR Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Bleed.

    Return Magic
    Self. Requires Long Sword to Use. Percentage Chance to Reflect Magic for 3 to 6 turns.

    Cleave
    Single Enemy. Requires Great Axe to Use. "Limit Break" that uses TP. Damage Formula uses Attack + MAJOR Bonus Damage Number. Very small Percentage Chance to inflict Instant Death.

    Ranger
    Pincushion
    Single Chosen Enemy or up to 4 Random Enemies. Requires Arrow to Use. Piercing Elemental Damage. Hits targets 1 to 4 times. Damage Formula uses Agility + MINOR Bonus Damage Number.

    Pierce
    Single Enemy. Requires Arrow to Use. Piercing Elemental Damage. Damage Formula uses Attack + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Bleed.

    Spore Tipped
    Target Self, Single Ally, or Full Party. Enchants weapons/attacks with "Nature" Element. Percentage increase to TP Charge Rate. Percentage reduction to MP Cost.

    Inspire
    Single Ally or Full Party. Consumes MP to restore MP to target or targets. 10-35 PP Restored for 10-150 MP Cost.

    Sever
    Single Enemy. Requires Long Sword or Hand Axe to Use. Guaranteed percentage damage to HP or MP (ignores defenses).

    Full Bloom
    All Enemies. "Limit Break" that uses TP. Nature Elemental Damage. Damage Formula uses Magic + Current MP + Bonus Damage Number. Percentage Chance to inflict Tangled.
     
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  12. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Appreciate it Tai. You had some great suggestions for Warrior abilities last year =)
     
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  13. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    If I was going to design a Rogue, it would be around Evasion, Target Rate, Items, and Critical Hits.

    The Rogue's skills cost items rather than MP. He'll use Smoke Bombs to raise his EVA or decrease his TGR. He wants to avoid getting hit. Perhaps he can set traps which sabotage/debuff his enemy.

    The Rogue of course can Steal items, perhaps even items which fuel his abilities. A Flee skill which offers perfect escape from battle would compliment that skill perfectly; the thieving Rogue swipes an item and runs away.

    Perhaps a skill to lower an enemy's Counter Rate is in order? It would go along with the Rogue's goal of avoiding getting hit.

    A sneaky Rogue can have an easier time getting his knife between his enemy's ribs. To this end, I'd give him higher Critical Hit rate.

    Outside of combat, however, is where a Rogue ought to truly shine. They are the class which would have Party Ability traits such as Encounter Half, Gold Double, or Drop Item Double.

    They could also be evented to be more useful outside of battle. Perhaps a Rogue at the head of a party finds different items in chests events, or a Rogue can open locked doors without a key (like in Final Fantasy III). Perhaps a charming, streetwise Rogue can have NPC events react to him differently.
     
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  14. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    No problem. If nothing else, take away from my skills that you can really do a lot with most of the engines.

    I did have another couple ideas. What if your Thief could steal HP or MP and give it to allies? Or even TP? What if he had access to special throwables?
     
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  15. Lady-J

    Lady-J Badlander Veteran

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    When i think rouge i think stealth (target rate 0 or something similar) and backstab (an attack that deals more damage while hidden) i also think itd be a good idea to have them increase the drop rate of items in addition to having a steal skill.
     
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  16. You_Got_Karma

    You_Got_Karma Warper Member

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    I think some sort of thief skill would be cool?
     
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  17. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    So 25 different skills tends to be way too much for a single kit in most games, (see this post and this post in the "Avoiding Ability Bloat" thread), although if you are designing the game in a way that the player will only get to learn/choose a smaller number of skills, then having 25 or so in the "pool" of possible skills is very reasonable.

    When designing Rogue-type classes in the past, I've generally focused on extreme Burst DPS that requires patience - kind of selling the dream of having your Rogue lurk in the shadows, find the perfect opportunity, and assassinate enemies. This kind of kit generally uses these aspects:
    • A common "Stealth" state that is shared by several skills, which reduces the Rogue's Target Rate to 0 so that her allies will be targeted by hostile single-target attacks instead of her. Some abilities might be a weak attack that also adds a Stealth State to her, while others might be self-buffs that give her increased stats (or defense against AoE abilities) in addition to Stealth. The Stealth wears off as soon as the Rogue uses an attack or offensive skill (which can be accomplished by basic scripting or use of Yanfly's Buffs & States Core plugin).
    • A variety of skills that buff her next attack dramatically. The timing can be accomplished in the same way as the Stealth state above. Essentially, the idea is that the Rogue can spend a few turns improving the next Skill (or Sttack) that she uses - for example, she has +80% ATK until her next (offensive) skill usage, or her next skill usage applies a Stun and a Poison if it Crits, or her next skill will automatically Crit.
    • A variety of high-damage skills, preferably Conditional skills. These are the skills the Rogue will generally want to use after they've stealthed and spent a few turns in stealth building up for her next attack. For example, a high-damage skill that deals extra damage against badly-injured targets, or a high-damage skill that extends the duration of existing states on the target by 1 turn, or a high-damage skill that also deals a small portion of its final damage to all other enemies.
    • Stats that encourage stealthy, patient gameplay for the Rogue. The Rogue should probably have relatively high Attack, but very low Defense and HP (compared to most other party members). This encourages the Rogue to spend as few turns out of Stealth as possible, and let her teammates take the blows for her while she builds up for single hits that deal extreme damage and provide some utility. Contrast this against a Warrior-type, who would deal lower total damage but do so more consistently, and who has the DEF and HP to withstand trading blows against enemies. The Rogue's version of "defense" is not taking hits in the first place (and while that can be accomplished with something like a high EVA rate, that kind of implementation essentially makes the Rogue an "RNG Tank" in practice, which doesn't sell the dream nearly as well as the use of stuff like Stealth states to avoid being attacked).
     
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  18. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Video games are pieces of art. Trying to assign an arbitrary statement like this to artwork is irrational.

    25 skills is the perfect amount for this particular piece of art.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  19. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    Really? Statements about design can't ever be applied to works of art, but arbitrary exact numbers can? :|

    Don't act like an overrated director that creates a complete bomb and then talks about how audiences "didn't get it".

    There are valid reasons classes with 25+ skills might mesh well with certain systems, but "it's a work of art therefore I'm immune to all critique" is not one of them.
     
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  20. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    Are video games not art?
     
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