Rogue Essentials

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kovak, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    What makes a rogue, thief or whatever you call your physical heavy hitter with low HP as...what makes them be who they are and do what they do?

    In combat i aways thinks about how they could poison, debuff defense or even be specialized on dealing with tank type enemies or even go to the opposite direction and focuses on dealing with mages or magic beast type enemies by reducing their Magic Attack, reflect magic damage, add elemental damage to attacks.

    So how do you approach this kind of concept?
     
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  2. Low

    Low Veteran Veteran

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    I like to simply provide a more dangerous and contrasting approach the design compared to your other character or classes. Usually it means a paper thin heavy physical hitter. Can be a good start but I think it's cool when they can require a higher level of strategy to utilize. In order to contrast the more direct heavy hitting mage or the easily defensive tank. There's many creative ways to go about that but I definitely feel rogues by nature should be designed in a more indirect way thats a bit more out the box in comparison to other characters in the same game.

    Edited: An example may be if there's a big roster of characters, I'd make the rogue prove most useful in longer harder battles as they can provide openings to enemies allowing party to damage more. While the common encounters the rogue would be less efficient for short quick easier battles as they won't require much debuff or set up for big rewards.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  3. trouble time

    trouble time Bearer of the Word Veteran

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    Id reccomend the rogue wears rouge so no matter which way you spell it your right. With that put of the way I'd also say i tend to think poison when i think rogues, and bombs.
     
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  4. Tiamat-86

    Tiamat-86 old jrpg gamer Veteran

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    i tend to see rouge and thief as 2 different but similar things for starters.
    both usually have high AGI/LUK light armors and light/medium weapons
    thief's and ninja's are usually more for utility with skills like stealing, higher success fleeing, blind/slow/poison
    while rogue's and assassin's are more offensive with skills like multi attacks, higher crit rates, def debuffs, stun/paralyze
    sometimes thief's and rouge's might also wield some minor white magic while ninja's and assassin's use basic black magic.
     
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  5. Warpmind

    Warpmind Twisted Genius Veteran

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    Poisoned weapons and stealing items seem pretty much the deal for rogues, though daggers with damage bonuses are pretty much par for the course as well.

    Hum, now I want to try to set up a Rogue Sneak Attack bonus based on how many of the Rogue's allies has more aggro than the Rogue... Ignore the Rogue at your peril.
     
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  6. GuanyuMaker

    GuanyuMaker Veteran Veteran

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    Depends. In your game/world do we have heavy melee hitters that are not tanks such as barbarians, swordsmans, duelists? Or every melee but the rogue are some sort of tank? It can change its role completely. I usually like to give rogues the ability to armor penetrate, more in the style of assassins. Their sneak atacks are in the weak spot of a armor to deal more damage so its natural to give armor penetration or ignore armor to rogues. If I'm in a steampunk or modern world I would rather see a rogue using bombs, poisons and tricks. How I will come with a rogue depends on the world I'm putting it .
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  7. Redeye

    Redeye Chronicles Creator Veteran

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    For Rogues and Assassins I tend to think about a high emphasis with Critical Hits, poisons, damage skills that take Agility into consideration, and damage skills that deal more damage to tanky enemies. I save all of the "Anti-Mage" stuff for its own unique class, the Saboteur/Disabler/Trickster.
     
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  8. Failivrin

    Failivrin Final Frontiersman Veteran

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    Good question, rogues are hard to pin down! I think of then as generalized specialists, with a smattering of basic skills from otherwise advanced classes; a bit of hunter, a bit of ninja, that sort of thing. High agility, evasion and crit with some low-cost spammable abilities. Stealthy but practical.
     
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  9. Chaos Avian

    Chaos Avian Abyssal Wing Restaff

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    Rogues are one of those classes that can be a variety of things. I tend to make them very unassuming at first, but potentially the most dangerous of the group if/ when they get their set up going (an assassin path). For example, having them take advantage of status ailments. Like poison: drain HP, blind: attack again, Paralysis: x3 damage, etc. Or if you go for a thief path, you can have them steal more then items, weapon, etc. Have them "steal states", like a buff or have them pass on negative states/ debuffs the enemy.

    Rogues are a really fun class that have loads of options to design~
     
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  10. XIIIthHarbinger

    XIIIthHarbinger Part Time Super Villain Veteran

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    The problem with a question like "What are essentials for Rogues?", is that the answer can vary dramatically depending upon a plethora of criteria that goes into setting up your game.

    What is integral to a Rogue build in one game, can be wholly irrelevant to another, depending upon the game. For example some people here have mentioned armor penetration, usually with daggers; but what if you follow the example of many games that use other weapons that also use armor penetration like Battle Axes or War Hammers? Suddenly your two handed heavy off tanks are using armor penetration attacks as well. So is armor penetration still a "Rogue Essential"?

    Another question is how "on rails" is your character's development? Are their stats, skills, & equipment specializations already plotted out? Or is you player able to exercise some level of control over their development? Because if the answer is the later, that changes what are "Rogue Essentials" for your game rather dramatically.

    For example, in my own game each I have a total of forty four different classes, each with their own initial setups, stats, starting skills, etcetera, just like any other RPG. Which the player chooses from when building their team, in a limited character creation suite. Three of the characters chose from the classes within one of the trinity archetypes; the "Fighter Character" chooses from amongst classes like Knight, Paladin, & Warrior; the "Rogue Character" chooses from amongst classes like Ranger, Assassin, & Duelist; & the "Spellcaster Character" chooses from amongst classes like Mage, Druid, & Cleric. While the main character can choose from any of the classes, so potentially your party can run two "Rogues".

    However, all of my characters regardless of class can use any weapon type & any armor type. Their stat growth is a combination of their initial class, plus a variable defined character playstyle based stat bonus system. & all characters can potentially learn any skill, of which there are more than a thousand, though they can only learn a total of ninety nine if they hit level cap.

    So what are the "Rogue Essentials" for my own game?

    My player could chose to spec out their rogue with various crippling strikes that cause injury debuffs & bleeding damage, along with various poisons on their weapons. On the other hand they could choose to use debuff skills that reduce their resistance to certain magical damage types, & then use skills that infuse an elemental bonus damage into their own weapons strikes, to allow them to hit well above their weight class.

    However, none of those are exclusive to a "Rogue" type character. My player could run a tanky Death Knight who uses standard sword & board loadout, but coats his blades in poisons to boost the attrition factor for the enemies when he is tanking. Or my Cleric could rebuke an undead enemy to boost their weakness to Holy magic even higher, then give that same enemy a Holy element infused Warhammer strike to put up some real DPS.

    Simply put, the more you increase the player's freedom to develop their character, & the more options you provide them with, the more potential builds can manifest, & the more wildly those "Rogue Essentials" can vary. Depending upon the desired level of freedom of player, the better solution might not be to ask what is "Essential" for a Rogue to have, but rather what could the player find interesting to have?
     
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