Romantic subplots in games?

[PhoenixFire]

What is your opinion of romantic subplots in games?

Personally, I like them, as long as they are not annoyingly simplified. I also don't like the subplots that basically turn into the primary plot, basically obscuring the primary story.

 

[The Stranger]

I haven't seen many good romantic sub-plots in games. Most just end up with you watching an in-game sex scene.

 

[magnaangemon01]

If done correctly, it could be very interesting. But if done as stated above, ummm.....no. No thank you.

 

[byronclaude]

I agree with the above statement.  Also - in addition to keeping it seperate from the main plot...  it should be well writting.  Like any other theme, you cannot just insert a 2+2=4romance and expect any good from it.  Make it subtle...  but with some intrigue.  Maybe 2 charactors are dangerously close, yet nothing happens.  Maybe it is not so simple...  a male hero must work with a heroine who is a former love, and she is falling for the male heroes best friend, who now feels caught in the middle and doesn't know what to do.  Add some secrecy!  Add some dirt! The player can

love or hate is as much as they want...  but if it is written with enough intrigue....   the player will see it through to the end to get the answers they secretly long for.

Use romance...   but not if it is simple.  Make it complex and intriguing.  Create contradictions - the most repulsive character is also perhaps the most attractive.  What ever the case...   make it deep.  But yes, romantic side story is A+ in games if correctly executed.

 

[Indinera]

In the Millennium series, there are several of them, even if they never take the spotlight. I just find it logical that a group of 10-15 men and women living always together eventually develop bonds and romantic interests. Even if they are supposed to be busy. It's the human nature to create bonds. 

 

[Matseb2611]

The difficult thing about romantic subplots in games is making it so that the way it's paced is realistic and believable. Having two characters declaring their undying love for each other after they've just met will make many players roll their eyes. In real life people aren't open about these things, unless they're either super confident or have zero self-awareness. People will send signals towards each other, test the waters, observe one another from the side. This is the kind of stuff that really intrigues me about romantic subplots in games, when you can tell there is chemistry between two characters, but neither of them admits it to the other. I have to be honest, but the longer this emotional hide and seek goes on, the more interesting it becomes, so long as it's not too static and some sort of development happens every now and again.

And I do agree that it shouldn't take the focus away from the main story. After all, if someone wants to play a game centered on romance, they should play Sims instead or something similar rather than an RPG where you fight monsters.

 

[whitesphere]

I think a romantic subplot can, if done right, add complex loyalties, depth to the characters and make some people care more about the characters.  The problem is it's incredibly difficult to do such a subplot in a way that is really believable.  As other people have pointed out, in real life, people do NOT show such feelings openly and immediately. 

I tried adding one in my previous game, but frankly, it fell flat on its face.  To keep the focus on the actual main plot (such as it was), I made sure NOT to focus on the romance, although I did have the 2 characters find each other "cute" at first and did have loyalties questioned and such.  I attribute that to my lack of experience in game development and RL romance.

While it is true that people in the midst of a crisis can form deep, even romantic and sexual bonds very quickly, I don't think it justifies the Dulcinea Effect --- where the hero meets a girl and immediately falls so in love with her that he'll do anything to save her (see: Chrono Trigger among countless others). 

To really do one well, the characters need to SHOW their feelings changing, but in real life we show that through subtle cues like facial expressions, changes in how we talk to someone (words AND voice tone/etc).  So I think, unless there are a lot of very skillful voiceovers and cutscenes which show their feelings shifting, the romantic subplot is going to fall apart.

Then the developer has the difficult part of balancing this very-hard-to-do-well romantic subplot so it doesn't consume the entire game.  This makes it even more difficult, since it requires a great deal of effort and cutscenes to do the subplot well.

In the RPGs I've played, I only felt FFIV really did a good job showing romantic involvement, and that was an established relationship (Cecil and Rosa).  Well, it did a good job showing Edge's crush on Rydia as well, but there were no feelings developing beyond that, as far as I could tell.

Chrono Trigger, if it had a romantic subplot, it was news to me --- the Chrono/Marle relationship was almost entirely offstage, except for a few offhand comments and Marle's grief when Chrono dies --- but ALL other party members show grief there.  Chrono being the Mute Male Protagonist doesn't help matters.  I was quite surprised to see them marry in the end scenes.

 

[Harmill]

I'm not much of a romantic but I really liked Tidus and Yuna's relationship. And Steiner and Beatrix was kinda interesting...Steiner was one of those goofy characters that you kinda felt sorry for because of how earnest he was but could never get things to go his way, and so I felt myself rooting for him near the end of the game when you see him and Beatrix drawing closer.

What do I hate about "romantic" subplots? The whole, "Who's this - is this your girlfriend?" question when the two aren't together yet, and they both squeal going, "N-NO! It's not like that!". That is SO overdone and annoying that I just want to reach into the TV and smack them across the face.

Or the EXTREMELY OBLIVIOUS character who no matter how much a character flirts with them, they STILL DO NOT GET THE PICTURE. Shion's obliviousness with Allen in Xenosaga was annoying as hell, and so was Asbel's obliviousness with Cheria in Tales of Graces. But I hated Cheria to the bone so in that case, I was glad that Cheria's constant advances were brushed off. As annoying and over-the-top Asbel's obliviousness was, I hated Cheria more, and so it turned it into a more enjoyable interaction for me. Then the Future Arc happens and screws that all up. But the point is, I imagine that most people were pissed off with Asbel because if they actually liked Cheria, the over-the-top oblivious trait is just painfully annoying.

 

[Sharm]

I would like romantic plots and subplots that are done well, I just can't think of any where it's been done.  As much as I enjoyed FFX the romance felt a little forced.  The only game I can think of at the moment that had a pretty good one was Star Ocean: Second Story.  I think it pulled it off better because there was so much character interaction.  I don't know why this is the case though, it's not like there isn't enough time in these epics to put a proper romance in.

 

[Sailerius]

I like them when they're done well but I can think of maybe two games ever made, ever, that do it well, and there is nothing as bad as a badly-done romance subplot. Poorly-written romance is really embarrassing to witness and tends to seriously ruin the characters involved. Worse still, they're often written by someone who has clearly never actually been in a relationship before and has no idea how human beings interact romantically.

If you're thinking of adding a romantic subplot, I would strongly urge you to reconsider because the odds are so heavily stacked against you and the consequences of failure are catastrophic.

I know I'm sounding negative here but in truth I really do love a good romance story. Unfortunately, they're excruciatingly rare and a botched romance is really, really awful.

 

[whitesphere]

I would like romantic plots and subplots that are done well, I just can't think of any where it's been done.  As much as I enjoyed FFX the romance felt a little forced.  The only game I can think of at the moment that had a pretty good one was Star Ocean: Second Story.  I think it pulled it off better because there was so much character interaction.  I don't know why this is the case though, it's not like there isn't enough time in these epics to put a proper romance in.

The book series Codex Alera definitely had fun with this.  At one point, Octavian, acting as the de facto First Lord, is trying to rally a gigantic multi-race army, composed of races which had never dealt with each other except as enemies.  He is trying to coordinate fighting against a highly intelligent, overwhelming foe.

And, right at this time, his mate, Kitai suddenly demands he court her as properly as he would a high born noble (she is one but not of that particular society).  She has several reasons we find later. 

Then he complains to his friend "Well, on top of saving the world, somehow I'll work an epic romance into the schedule.  Somehow, I don't think Kitai would accept the end of the world as an excuse."

Not that's RPG related, but I find the comparison very amusing.

Of course, it is a lot easier to show romance building between characters when you're writing a novel...

 

[captainproton]

One of the best romantic subplots I've ever come across (and I'm assuming there's no spoilers here) was in Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. The main character's first quest is rescuing his friend, Tia, who crushes hard for him. As the "save the world" plot settles in, she comes with him. He either doesn't know of her feelings, or ignores them later, he meets Selan, a fierce warrior woman and falls for her. Tia decides she can't stand by him as a warrior, so she leaves the party. You and Selan marry and have a child, and Tia really isn't seen for the rest of the game.

It never detracted from the plot, but added to it, giving it all a layer of realism.

 

[Sinathor]

Romantic subplots are great....... In Final Fantasies.

Those are probably the only games from the top of my head, that handle the subject well (Mind you, I've only played FFI - FFX and FFXIV, the MMO, so I don't know anything about the FFXIII and its billion sequels). The writing and translation are excellent, and it never steals the spotlight, and it always comes at a time when it makes sense. The subject isn't that common in games, because quite frankly, it is really difficult to do well. Especially in a game environment. Games like Mass Effect, that tries to be all serious about it, ends up being absolutely ridiculous and just plain sad.

I've been wanting to make an RPG with dating mechanics for a long time now, but I always back off because of how hard it is. Not only because of the mechanics, but eventhough I'm a decent writer, I don't think I could convincingly pull off a romance in a game. Especially when I lean towards gameplay when it comes to gameplay/story ratio.

 

[Eurgh]

Depends on how it's done. Making it blatantly obvious with the Childhood friend becomes romantic interest. Is majorly cliche. However, if it leads into that, for it to end with them deciding there's no real romance and it turns out there's someone else the player didnt realise was the romantic interest then yeah...

 

[Chaos17]

Persona 3 and 4 do them right same for friendship.

 

[Doobles]

It really depends on how well your writing and story skills are.  Like your main story, you really need to make it something realistic, otherwise it'll be completely cringeworthy.  Personally, 9/10 I can't stand them and I find them super cliche because almost every RPG has one somewhere!  Last game I liked with a romantic plot?  FFX.

 

[Celianna]

Personally, 9/10 I can't stand them and I find them super cliche because almost every RPG has one somewhere!

Well, it's realistic. Place people together, have them experience things together, and you're bound to create connections, whether that be friendship or romantic.

 

[whitesphere]

Well, it's realistic. Place people together, have them experience things together, and you're bound to create connections, whether that be friendship or romantic.

I agree it's realistic.  In fact, people in crisis situations form bonds extremely quickly, if anything.  The biggest problem is it's extremely difficult to convey well in the limited confines of an RPG.     Novels can slowly show two characters change how they interact, can describe subtle face expressions, even show the character's innermost thoughts.  Movies can rely on facial expressions and voice tone to convey the richness of emotion there isn't time to narrate. 

Within an RPG, it's much trickier.  Face expressions are non-existent (unless you create special animated or 3D cutscenes), and dialogue needs to be more limited than, say, in a novel.  Voice overs can help immensely, to convey the emotion not expressed in other ways, but these can easily be overly dramatic, and that comes across as silly if the two people haven't known each other long at all.  Chemistry can certainly be there right away, but not undying love.

Add in the tricky balancing act so the romantic sub-plot doesn't dominate the entire RPG (unless it's a dating sim).  So I think it's very hard to get right, even for professional game developers.  

 

[Sharm]

I don't think the format would really get in the way all that much if you had some skill telling romances. I've played VN's with less character art and dialogue than your typical RPG and they were good romances, so it's not like there isn't room or enough art to do it justice. I think it's just that the style gaming you find in RPGs lends itself better to a less intimate story so the people who want to do a straight up romance are more likely to do a different sort of game. If a game creator found a way for the game play to support the romantic plot I think it could be done. That's been the major failing of all the RPGs I played where romance was supposed to be part of the plot, the gameplay wasn't changed at all to support the completely different style of story but just kept the same as if the romance wasn't important after all.


FFX has a good example of this. A major element of the plot is that the main character and the character everything revolves around fall in love despite every sign that it's going to end badly. But in the actual gameplay there are VN style dialogue choice sequences that would change which of the girls liked you best and so which one would throw you your blitzball during a special move. There was only one romance possibility in the plot so adding a false set of choices scattered through the game not only invalidated those choices because they didn't change anything but weakened the main story because it felt a bit more like the game and the plot weren't connected at all. In my opinion, those sorts of choices could be kept but only if they actually changed something that wouldn't weaken the plot. A possible example: change the style of the relationship the MC had with the LI. Instead of changing if the girl likes you or not, it'd be if you have a playful flirty relationship or a somber introspective one or something like that.

 

[Doobles]

Well, it's realistic. Place people together, have them experience things together, and you're bound to create connections, whether that be friendship or romantic.

In many circumstances, yes it is realistic for people in crisis situations to form bonds, but I will admit when I was typing my previous post I worded my response incorrectly.  Not only with games, but in movies too, there always has to be some sort of romance just for the sake of appealing to a different audience a little more maybe... or something.  The reason I find them so cliche and dislike them so much is because the romantic subplots that are well implemented are few and far in between, where as so many feel... for lack of a better word "forced" and awkward.  It's not the idea I find dumb, but more the writers that feel these subplots are needed when they can't implement them properly.  I'd rather no romantic subplot than one that makes me want to cringe and skip dialogue because it is cheesy, forced and fake.