Romantic subplots in games?

[paralistalon]

I sometimes like romantic subplots.  I liked how they were handled in Dragon Age, where your reputation with each character increased or decreased through decisions you made, and ultimately you got to choose which person your main character ended up with.  My biggest frustration with romantic subplots is when you don't really know if the game is gearing you up for a romance option or not... or even worse, you don't know which characters you could potentially build a relationship with, so you end up trying to court someone the whole game but find out later that some other people were your only options. 

I guess it depends on the game, really.  Romance options are best in large, epic, open-ended RPGs where you build a life for yourself.  I liked having it in Skyrim, even though the quality of the romance was left entirely to your imagination as there was no depth or romantic text at all really (do a quest for an NPC, come back later, ask for marriage, the end!). 

 

[GammaVector]

I think it really depends on what kind of story you're trying to tell. I think the real key is whether your game is character driven or plot driven.  Character driven games are usually going to fare better in the romance department.

FFIX had a couple of fantastic, low-key romances. A big part of why they worked was because of how character-focused that game was. The main plot was sometimes driven by an external force, but most of it was driven by your party members.  You were always, always thinking about who the characters were.  Every quest had you learning something more about your companions.  It's very natural for a game that's character driven to have a focus on the character's relationships with each other; and as other people have pointed out, romance happens when you save the world together.  FFIX had no problem showing us the chemistry between characters, and the way they "acted differently" around each other, because half of the damn game was watching your party talk to each other.  It was easy to tell that Zidane treated Garnet pretty differently than he treated Freya.

FFIV is another example of character-driven romance.  Here, the plot is more external, but the game compensates by having the main romance (actually love-triangle) be already established at the start of the game (so it doesn't need to develop from scratch).  It also uses the romance as fuel for conflict (see: Everything Kain does in the entire plot), without turning it into Romeo and Juliet.  (It's easy to kidnap the hero's girlfriend and use that as motivation to kill the villain. It's a lot more interesting to have the Kain angle added in.)

Then we get FFVII.  Ah, Cloud and Aerith.  To be honest, I never gave a single frick about them.  I felt it was a really forced romance.  Why?  Because, honestly, Cloud and Aerith didn't fall in love for character reasons.  They fell in love for plot reasons.  The plot demanded a dead girlfriend to fuel Cloud's wrath. Then they threw in some stuff about absorbing Zack's memories of being in love with Aerith to try to cover up the wires, but...Honestly, it just didn't work. The plot of FFVII is very external.  Things don't happen because of your party members as people.  Things just happen and these people just happen, for one reason or another, to get sucked into the mess.  Really, Sephiroth and Cloud are the only people who drive the plot in any meaningful way.  You could have replaced Aerith with Tifa no problem and the game would have continued on exactly the same.  Dead girlfriend, much wrath.  (Though granted, you would have to change the exact circumstances of the girlfriend death, but it wouldn't be hard to do. Have Tifa die protecting Aerith as she finishes summoning Holy and boom. Same plot.) (Not so, you'll notice, if you tried to switch out characters in their respective subplots in FFIX) 

And then they came in and gave you romance options with Tifa and Yuffie and even frikken Barret and...*shakes head* It didn't kill the game, but it very well could have if there wasn't so much else going on that you could ignore the terribly-implemented romance.

Teal Deer version: I like romance when it's done well.  It's a lot easier to do well in a character driven game rather than a plot driven one.  That is, when the characters are the ones driving the story, rather than the story driving the characters.  Also, the more we see the party interacting with each other, the easier it is to slip in a romance.

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

Romantic subplots struggle to get my attention, I always find them cliche or too cheesy to make me smile and give a hand of applause, FF10 not only made me roll my eyes and said: "We get it! Moving on!" but it also made me just go to my kitchen and make a sandwich or something while Tidus and Yuna have their love moment which was obviously forced upon. The only good romantic subplots which made me smile was FF9 after Zidane returned to Alexandria, the bond between him and Garnet were good, it wasn't like they were both starry eyed or when they kissed they flew through the cosmos (FF10) etc.

It may be just me but romantic subplots are getting worse and worse because I just get sicker and more sicker every time I see a cliche or a cheesy love scene, if a romantic subplot is done very well that could at least make me crack a smile then I salute to that person, making a romantic subplot seems easy to everyone these days. MC meets girl -> they travel together -> Girl sees how much of a good guy MC is -> MC rescues girl -> Girl falls in love -> happy ending. The majority is always this even if it doesn't look like it but in most games if you fit all the piece you will see they are all like that.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

I guess for me, poor writing would be poor writing. If it's well written, I'll like it. If it's not written well; I'll hate it. I guess my one point on the subject would be, if it has absolutely no bearing on the main plot, I prefer it to be something developed out of sidequest/sidestory. 

 

[arekpowalan]

I think that romantic subplot, or any subplot between characters in general can open up a lot of potential with character creation. Look at Fire Emblem, the characters are very rich in personalities and relationships just because they happen to be able to talk to each other in a game where the main plot forces everybody into deposable war personels (i.e. a very plot driven game where extra characters don't matter). In that game, characters' subplots are what makes player attached to the cast, since you care to keep them alive not only because they are good battle units, but they are realistic characters with love and friendship values,

On the other hand, like every other literary tools, romantic subplot can either create or ruin characters. Plan your subplots between characters from the beginning to the end. What are the couple's personalities? What are their conflicts? What are the reactions bwteen them? How do they deal with it? What make the conflicts and solutions make them great and memorable couple? Carefully planned couple can easily attract player and make them root for the couples, and as the side effect, make player stick with the main plot. Bad couples, on the other hand, create either nothing or annoyance, which may damage the main plot if they have major involvement in it.

If you plan to make a romantic subplot, just go for it, at least for characterization's sake if your primary story has yet to have any. if you are being careful with the developments of the couples, I don't think there'll be a problem.

 

[Oddball]

if i ever put a romatic sub-plot in my game, I'm going to be using an affinity system of sorts. make it so the player's actions end up deciding whether these to charecters love or hate each other. then go, ok X affinity between these two charecters yeilds this in this conversation. where Y yeilds this in this situation. It will be more complex then that, of course, but thats just the skeleton of the idea. If it was by the players actions this happened, then they will be more engrossed in whats going on. FF7 kind of did this, but not to the extent i'm talking about

they, of course, Imply that Tifa and Cloud did something towards the end of the game "oh you saw us?! I'm so embarressed..." Yea... I'm sure this is probably what many of you are talking about what not to do. of course it didn't take away from the main plot, because that game is still very expensive when you try to find it today

 

[Sharm]

If you're going to do an affinity system then you might want to look into visual novels. Most of them work this way, so the ones that are really good could teach you a thing or two about how to correctly do it for your game.

 

[Oddball]

If you're going to do an affinity system then you might want to look into visual novels. Most of them work this way, so the ones that are really good could teach you a thing or two about how to correctly do it for your game.

... what? I don't really see how this could help. giving ideas for relationship development maybe? I don't know, I already know how relationships between my charecters are going to develop. still not sure whether I'm going into the whole romatic relationship thing, because thats not my cup of tea really. But yea, I have no idea what your talking about to be perfectly honest

and honestly, visual novels don't do branching trees of relationships and how that's going to affect the storyline, It's just one path instead of many, many possibilities

 

[Sharm]

I don't know what you're talking about either. Maybe we've just played/read completely different VNs? Every VN I've ever played/read with romantic options had diverging story lines based on relationships.

 

[Oddball]

I don't know what you're talking about either. Maybe we've just played/read completely different VNs? Every VN I've ever played/read with romantic options had diverging story lines based on relationships.

how did they work that? was it like those old pick your own adventure books?

 

[Sharm]

Yeah, only sometimes more complex. I think you must have only read Kinetic Novels, they're a subgenre of Visual Novels, and they don't have any gameplay. Anyway, this is starting to get off topic. You can PM me if you want to talk more about VN's.

 

[Oddball]

how can you build an authentic, organic romance in a game?

 

[captainproton]

how can you build an authentic, organic romance in a game?

It should grow from the characters themselves: their traits an personalities. There are tons of examples of games, books and movies where two people are a Couple because there needs to be a Love Interest. Yes the intense situation of saving the world from the apocalypse can push people together who wouldn't normally get together in peacefulhappytime. But when the dust clears and the adrenaline fades, would these two stay a couple?

Opposites attract, but only if they oppose each other in *certain* aspects. Two people who have absolutely nothing in common might have drunken bouncy fun time, but that's it. There has to be a common ground, something to bridge those differences.

Likewise, two people who are identical in all but physical self would grate on each other, as each would be a reflection of the other's flaws and frailties, without the complementary strengths to buoy them up.

 

[Oddball]

but how do you show genuine chemistry, and raport development. without the whole A. they travel together B. she sees he's a good guy, he enjoys her company C. they pull through a dire situation together D. they fall in love. You don't have to tell me step by step, just point me in the right direction.

Edit: I'm good with bond developmet, just not this

 

[captainproton]

Haha, what you just described is the structure of just about every romantic subplot ever, no matter how well written.

Subtlety is what's important. Hint at things bit by bit through cutscene dialogue. Maybe there are moments when a character mentions how pretty the princess looks in her gown. "I couldn't wear a fancy dress like that," Ulrika says. "Maybe not," Ralph replies, "but then, you don't really need a fancy dress." This hints at physical attraction.

The princess goes missing, and Ralph works out that the baron is the culprit. "Great job, Ralph," Ulrika says. "Good to know there's more to you than muscles." Playful dialogue with notes of attraction and respect of abilities.

The princess is allowed to marry her knight sweetheart. "I'm glad they could be together," Ulrika says. "Me, too," Ralph replies. "It would be awful not to be with the one you love." Ulrika turns to Ralph. "Yeah. Just about the worst." This is more vulnerable dialogue, hinting at real feelings going unspoken.

The Big Reveal can happen either by a Tense Moment jarring their love confession out into the open, or even by their guard being lowered in a moment of peace and respite.

Just a couple notions.

 

[Sharm]

Romance plots are like other plots, they're strengthened by the same thing that makes a normal plot good.  Try/fail cycles, character growth, foreshadowing, pacing, and so on.  You use all the same tools, you just apply them to the romance.

 

[TheTourist]

I like romance subplots in games. Unfortunately, it is highly scrutinized by players when it involves the controlled character.

Romance, no matter what level, needs to be properly written because it is passion driven. When the passion behind it's writing is shallow, the player will barely experience it. 

Romance plots are like other plots, they're strengthened by the same thing that makes a normal plot good.  Try/fail cycles, character growth, foreshadowing, pacing, and so on.  You use all the same tools, you just apply them to the romance.

This is something that can be used a base guideline to understanding how you can make the plot flow. 

but how do you show genuine chemistry, and raport development. without the whole A. they travel together B. she sees he's a good guy, he enjoys her company C. they pull through a dire situation together D. they fall in love. You don't have to tell me step by step, just point me in the right direction.

Edit: I'm good with bond developmet, just not this

Read captainproton's post (#35)

For things to feel "organic", it needs to start from the character's background story. Subtle notions in a given situation that affect the character mentally and emotionally through proper development will enrich that character's story. The plot can be sophisticated or simple; stupid or romantic. As long as it is properly developed with the situations they experience, and the background the character's come from.

You say you're good with bond development? Well, the first thing most people do when they want to romance someone is develop a bond, then create the desire to be together. 

 

[LuckyLeafGames]

I also agree that Final Fantasy IX handled the romantic subplots very well.  It was handled so well I actually named Garnet after my girlfriend of the time, and Zidane me.  A great game to play if you need inspiration.