RPG Clichés

[Kilravok]

Of course it is not neccessarely only the writer who can try to avoid or include cliches...how about trying to let the characters actively avoid or seek cliches for one reason or another. "Yes, I know it's cliche, everybody's done that, that is what makes it so genious. We are not everybody, we are Heros. They'd never expect US to do it."......"Are you serious? That is sooooo cliche. Everybody does that and the Overlord is virtually EXPECTING us to do it. I can tell you now already how it will play out. Let's do something else instead."

 

[Mouser]

I laughed so many times at that list. Even printed a copy out to show my wife.

There are only so many plots for stories (somewhere between seven to twelve depending on whose system you use). Every story ever told boils down to one of those, so "cliche's" are inevitable. The point for game design is recognizing them and asking yourself - are they there because it's good storytelling and I just happen to be using something others have used before (probably because it was good storytelling for them), or are you using them because it's the easy way out and you don't want to think of something a bit more original (I won't say "original" because at this point it's all been done before, somewhere, by somebody).

They're still always good for a laugh though, and you can even use them for a bit of comic relief if done right (combined with the right character names, they can really break the tension in an otherwise very serious game).

 

[RPGmorpho]

http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html there, nearly every cliche you can think of

 

[Celianna]

@RPGmorpho: yes ... that link is in the OP.

 

[RockStone]

The funny thing is, you can actually use many of these rules, as long as you write them well, or use them knowingly.

 

[Solistra]

The funny thing is, you can actually use many of these rules, as long as you write them well, or use them knowingly.

Unfortunately, writing well is significantly harder to do than it appears.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Unfortunately, writing well is significantly harder to do than it appears.

Yeah, but writing well is necessary no matter whether you use cliches or not, so there is no real reason to avoid them .

 

[Solistra]

I never said there was. I just wanted to point out that writing well isn't something that many people are really focused on learning -- and even if you try to learn it and know the essentials, it can be much harder in practice to actually write something decent than it is to sit and point out what's wrong (in your opinion, of course) with everything else.

Basically, compiling these lists really doesn't help you all that much when it actually comes time to present a story and do so decently if you don't know how to write a story in the first place.

 

[GrandmaDeb]

Write your story. ***rolls eyes*** Join the great writers and use cliches all day if you want.

Heaven knows Harry Potter and Tolkien and loads of authors you know use them all of the time.

But what they also do is tell a story and tell it well. And "avoiding cliches" is not the same thing as not writing trite dribble that you barely thought about.

If you want to make a game with a bare-bones story and don't want to work on the writing, make the type of game that doesn't need much story. But if you want a game that draws people in with more than a battle system or some such thing, you just have to work on the writing until it is good, cliches or not.

The most satisfying games have a story that gives you a reason to play. That takes considerable work and considerable talent, but hey, it's worth a shot, right?

 

[RockStone]

Unfortunately, writing well is significantly harder to do than it appears.

I know what you mean, Sol, but like everything in RPG making, it's just a matter of work. Write, test, re-test, leave that section for a while, work on something else (the battle system or whatever)...come back after a little while and I bet you'll notice straight away the bits that stand out in your plot and dialogue as being unnatural\forced\corny\cliched\whatever.

As much fun as RPGM is, we have to realise that actually bringing a game to completion WILL require hard work. Will it be worth it? Yes! If you put the work in and channel yourself into the creative aspect, like any other artistic creation, it will be. RPGM is just a set of tools, like a paintbrush and pallete, a typewriter, or whatever else. The creative part has to come from within you. If it doesn't, then you're not cut out to make games, simple as. I had ideas for my own game 10 years ago, before I even heard of RPGMaker. This is just the tool that allows me to bring those ideas to fruition.

I will also say, there's a reason some people concentrate on producing scripts or resources, rather than games. Because that's the way their creative juices work (And if you look at the remarkable output of the likes of Luna, Yanfly, Victor, Hanzo and many, many more, those juices are obviously working in overdrive). So don't feel bad if you think you're 'not a good writer' or whatever. Everybody has their part to play. If you want to write your game, and you're not sure of how to go about it, ****, write an outline! Published authours do it! I tend to follow the Stephen King method of 'unearthing the story', but that's just me -- remember! This is YOUR game! You make it exactly what you've always wanted it to be - for yourself, first, and then for other people. If you don't make it for YOU, first and foremost, then it's not honest.

Sol, sorry if you feel like I went off from your post, or if I was attacking you, I honestly wasn't. I just get drunk and try to wax lyrical, hahah.

And back on topic, I didn't even read this whole list (about 60%), but there are so many cliches in general here, that if you don't use at least one, then I applaud you. I probably wouldn't play your game though, because this covers almost anything in mainstream storytelling that actually makes the story interesting. Every Game, every movie, every book, every whatever, uses cliches. The key is in how well you write them, so as to disguise them as such.

 

[Solistra]

Something tells me that you might have missed my point.

 

[Mouser]

I know what you mean, Sol, but like everything in RPG making, it's just a matter of work. Write, test, re-test, leave that section for a while, work on something else (the battle system or whatever)...come back after a little while and I bet you'll notice straight away the bits that stand out in your plot and dialogue as being unnatural\forced\corny\cliched\whatever.

No, it isn't just a matter of work. It's a matter of know-how.

If you don't know Ruby, you can't script, no matter how hard you work at it. Writing is the same way - I don't mean just knowing the words and basic rules of the language. Real writing has as many rules, guidelines, exceptions, and anything else you can think of as any other craft (a craft that has been developed over centuries, I might add).

For some reason, writing has fallen out of view as difficult, along with most other "liberal arts" majors in colleges, but in the real world, writing well is extremely important, yet few people seem to be able to do it well. If you work with software, you'll encounter it in the documentation of most "free" or even "open source" software - it sucks (Eric Raymond even wrote an essay on the topic, though he completely missed the cause). "Professional" software houses hire technical writers to produce their documentation for them, because they know it's value and importance.

Back on topic: Writing a story for a game is very similar to writing a short story (possibly a novella). You need plot, character development, dialog that makes sense and moves the plot forward, and to make it even harder, you have to give the player the illusion of choice and freedom as they read the story (even if it does has multiple endings, the player ultimately has to follow the rails you laid, or else never "finish" the game). And fiction writers are constantly learning: workshops, retreats, writing circles (even professional, published authors). Like any craft, you never truly master it - there is always something else to learn and room to grow.

If you still think cliche's are the problem, try this: Write a game without using "The Reluctant Hero", "Redemption", or "The Quest".

If you think "The Quest" isn't fair on that list, substitute "The Messiah".

Edit: Seriously, think of all the RPG's you've played. How many of them don't use one of the themes / plot elements I just named?

Moar Edit: My wife, whom I've enlisted to help with the writing and dialog just showed me the program she uses in her writing: Some commercial product, I forget the name. It keeps track of all the major characters, with room for everything about them and notes for plot, development, etc. A major plot timeline, which links to smaller plot elements so you can keep every dialog and scene separate for easy editing and changing. You can make mind maps to help see how everything ties together. A section for locations, the setting. Pretty much anything I could think of and then some.

The actual typing in the lines of dialog and narrative is probably the smallest and simplest part of the writing process.

 

[Solistra]

Now something tells me that Mouser understood my point quite well.