RPG Maker 2003, EULA, patches, modifications, etc in a legal point of view

[Zog]

Greetings everybody,

I hope I'm posting in the right forum, please excuse me if I'm making a mistake. Plus, English is not my former language so there can be some strange sentences in this post!

I know that Enterbrain doesn't cares any more about RPG Maker 2003 (which has not been sold for many, many years, contrary to RPG Maker 2000), and you guys here probably don't care either. But I have some questions about it, and I think the official forum is the only place where I can get some answers, because Enterbrain never answered me (I mean, Japanese e-mail contacts found on the Enterbrain.co.jp website).

Well, here is the topic: I have been able to get a japanese version of RPG Maker 2003. I don't understand anything in Japanese, but as I have been using the unofficial translated versions of RPG Maker 2003 for several years, I can remember where the buttons are, how everything works and, by memory, I can use this software.

So, I suppose everything in that situation is legally OK.

Many of you probably think something like "You are bothered by something that is not important. Enterbrain doesn't care about RM2003, do what you want". You are probably right. But I feel better when I can release my game (even if it's free) and say "Everything is legal! No problem!".

So here is the real question: what does the EULA specifically says about modifications, patches, etc, that can be found on the internet, like Cherry patches ?

As everything is in Japanese, I don't understand anything. And I haven't been able to find any translation of the EULA on the internet.


This question is interesting because it is often said that these patches are illegal, because they alter the original program (RPG Maker). But there are some kind of patches that don't affect RPG Maker itself, but only the RPG_RT executable (actually, most of them). Plus, some patches work without modifying any files, like the funny called "RPG Maker 2009 Ultimate" which actually is some kind of an embedding software that can be linked to RPG Maker old versions to add new features. According to its author, it would be fully legal, because no file of the original software or of the game is affected.

I also noticed that there's some kind of a debate about whether it's legal or not to change the icon of the exe file of RPG Maker VX games: this proves that reading the EULA with precision is sometimes necessary and reveals surprising informations. And the RM2003's EULA can also be very different than RMVX's EULA (in which it's clearly specified that the game.exe cannot be edited).

Of course, the easiest way to answer is to say "it's unofficial, so it's illegal". I read answers like this countless times. But I think we can go further in the question, because it's interesting for many RPG Maker 2003 users (and for me: I would like to be able to use patches), and I think most people who give the answers haven't carefully read the EULA themselves. So, is somebody able to tell, precisely, if the EULA forbids:

- any modification applied to the RPG_RT.exe file, and not to RPG Maker 2003 itself?

- softwares that make use of RPG Maker / RPG Maker games, like "RPG Maker 2009 Ultimate" without modifying any file?

If patches that edit RPG_RT.exe files are forbidden, in which way is editing RPG_RT.exe files forbidden? Is it ok to change the icon? Is it ok to change the name? Is it ok to correct some bugs which are inherent to the engine?

We can also wonder about things like "Open RPG Maker" which is an open source software developped in the purpose to read and edit RM2003 games. This brings a new question: are games connected to their editors? Is a game made with or saved with this editor still an RM2003 game that has to respect the EULA rules?

I hope some of you will accept to spend some time with my questions, even if they only concern a very old RM version.

Sorry if my questions sound odd.

Best regards.

 

[Celianna]

Hi there!


This is a forum for RPG Maker XP, RPG Maker VX, RPG Make VX Ace and IG Maker. RPG Maker 2003 is not in that list there, so neither is it supported here on the forum, so we are also under no obligation (not to mention, some of us just don't know) to answer your question.


It is safe to say any modifications is against the EULA, no matter what RPG Maker it is.

 

[Zog]

so we are also under no obligation (not to mention, some of us just don't know) to answer your question.

Nobody said you were under any obligation.

I started and finished my message by words like "I hope". I am only counting on your kindness and your curiosity. Should I guess it is impossible to think and act this way?

Besides, a simple search with the word "RPG Maker 2003" gives many results.

In April 2012 there was a poll here about the eventual release of an officiel English version of RM2003 (and I guess there will never be one), so I suppose talking about this version of RM is not forbidden here. However, if I am in the wrong section, please excuse me and tell me where this thread should be posted.

 

[Fomar0153]

There was a petition if I recall and it failed to get enough signatures.

 

[Celianna]

Nobody said you were under any obligation.


I started and finished my message by words like "I hope". I am only counting on your kindness and your curiosity. Should I guess it is impossible to think and act this way?


Besides, a simple search with the word "RPG Maker 2003" gives many results.


In April 2012 there was a poll here about the eventual release of an officiel English version of RM2003 (and I guess there will never be one), so I suppose talking about this version of RM is not forbidden here. However, if I am in the wrong section, please excuse me and tell me where this thread should be posted.

I was pointing out that Degica, the company that publishes RPG Maker in English and hosts this forum, doesn't support RPG Maker 2003, thus getting an official answer on it ... may not ever come. We did, as Fomar said, have a poll to see if people would purchase the Maker if they'd release it in English, but that never went anywhere.
Maybe in the future.

 

[Zog]

Thank you but I think I have been misunderstanded: I'm not interested in any English translation of RM 2003. I only mentionned the poll to indicate why I thought it was authorized to talk about RM2003 here.

My questions are about the EULA of RPG Maker 2003. They are focused only on the EULA of RPG Maker 2003, because I can't understand it since all is in Japanese. My questions about the EULA are in the end of my first message.
So, I was hoping someone would be able to understand this japanese EULA and to answer to my questions; or, even better, to provide a translated version of this EULA. I would be very grateful to this person and I think here is the place where I have the best chances to meet this person.

Best regards.

 

[Fomar0153]

Most of us on the staff have never seen the EULA and don't speak Japanese. Being as there is no English version of RPG Maker 2k3 and we are the official english community we don't talk about 2k3 issues because we're not in general able to deal with them.

What we're saying is we can't give you an official answer or an official translation.

I can answer the bit about changing the icon, we had the ok that users are allowed the change the icon of the Game.exe.

 

[Lunarea]

We do not have a translated copy of RM2K3 EULA that we can officially offer. As Celianna said, we also do not offer support for RM2K3, and so we cannot answer questions about whether patches, etc are allowed, or whether you can use open-source software to edit games.

You may be able to find a Japanese-speaking person who is kind enough to translate for you, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. For one, the person translating could be wrong and you may find yourself unknowingly violating the terms of service (and possibly getting into legal trouble over it). Secondly, the company might decide that the simple fact that you cannot understand their TOS is in violation of their terms.

 

[Zog]

Thank you for these more comprehensive and precise answers.

Do you know where or to who I can ask these questions to get an official answer? I thought the official forum/website was the right place (no problem, not your fault).

Since the Enterbrain site is in Japanese, and I already tried to contact them (in English, using an email hardly found on contact page of the site) but got no answer, it becomes a bit discouraging.

This is a strange situation, having bought a software and being unable to contact in any way the company that released it, whereas this company is still working, selling products and communicating.

 

[Andar]

Since the Enterbrain site is in Japanese, and I already tried to contact them (in English, using an email hardly found on contact page of the site) but got no answer, it becomes a bit discouraging.

This is a strange situation, having bought a software and being unable to contact in any way the company that released it, whereas this company is still working, selling products and communicating.

No, I can't answer your question - but I've a good guess why you won't get an answer from EB this way...

Basically, english and legalese ;-) are two different languages - and the same goes around in any country or language.

In my experience it's a rare occasion that someone (besides lawyers) is willing to write a binding contract or declaration even in their own native language, especially if there is licensing and copyrights on a company level concerned. Writing this in a foreign language (where you don't even know the legal terms used) is almost impossible if you're not a specialist of that field.

It could very well be that the employees of Enterbrain are forbidden to answer those questions but have to route them by their companies lawyers - and those usually don't work on private requests because they're not paid for that.

I don't think that EB will even try to translate the old EULA unless a company is requesting that to license the program - and that is very unlikely to happen in my opinion...

 

[Archeia]

As far as I know, EB has already stopped the production of RM2k3. But Rm2k Value! is the only older maker they actually are supporting right now.

I can try asking them but I wouldn't put too much hopes on it.

 

[Zog]

Great answers, thank you for the help.

I didn't see the thing in that way, Andar, but I think you're probably right. Ah, this is so sad...

It may be a good idea to check the RM 2000 Value!. It's certainly quite close to RM2003's.

Is there an official English translation of RM 2000 Value! ? If so, there is problably a way to get easily an English version of its EULA. Otherwise, this would still be great to be able to ask Enterbrain about it, based on the Japanese version.

By the way, Archeia, I remember that in the poll about the eventual release of an official English translation of RM2003, you said:

Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker. Not sure about the RPG_RT.exe though since I know it's not illegal to change the icon.

(link source)

So, I thought you were quite aware of what was into the RM2003's EULA. But actually, did you have this EULA in your hands and were able to read it, or was it a supposition based upon the XP/VX/VX Ace 's EULA (which, actually, is also not very clear about what is authorized and what is not, because the definition of the "RTP Software" is not given, and it is impossible to know whether it concerns the Game.exe file or not) ?

 

[Sailerius]

The only way you're ever going to get a straight answer is if you hire a lawyer to look into it for you. It's an out of date product that's not available anymore and there's no official word in English about what the EULA says. Unless you want to front the hundreds or thousands of dollars it's going to take to find a lawyer who can clear this up for you, just drop 2k3 and upgrade to one of the legal makers. No one uses 2k3 anymore for a reason.

Any patch is almost certainly going to be illegal because the EULAs for XP+ specifically forbid reverse engineering, which is necessary in order to patch them. This is a standard feature of software EULAs, so it's almost certain that the 2k3 EULA includes it, too.