Tamina

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But it's not a limitation because RPG Maker does allow you to script. It was designed that way from the outset. In fact, you'll encounter scripting no matter what engine you decide to use, whether a "child's tool" like RPG Maker or "big boy toys" like Unity. People don't say that Unity, Godot, or Game Maker are limiting because you have to script to implement feature x, y, or z, do they? Cmon, that's just silly.

Edit: You see, you have to consider the scripting aspect of RM as part of the "default system".


Maybe I didn't word it correctly, in the post that you quoted, what I really meant was "RPG Maker without scripting has limitations", not the other way around. :p

I think the script avoidance is just higher with RPG Maker users. When I tried Game Maker I started using code from the beginning, but now with two years of progress in my game with RM MV I still haven’t touched scripting and I see alot of help requests ”without scripting”.
There is something unintuitive in it, but I can’t put my finger on it. Once you learn it’s probably pretty easy. I think scripting has a stigma too.

From my observation, RPG Maker community does feel more "anti scripting" than other engine communities, but maybe I'm biased, I don't know.

This thread has like, heated debate TWICE when I said something about scripting for unique game mechanics because the default system isn't good enough (to me at least). Then someone will post and argue about default system being perfectly fine "if you try hard enough".

I don't think in Unity or Goddot community people would attack your opinion if you said something similar =.=

Scripting with RPG Maker is indeed less intuitive than Unity/Goddot because there are no built in IDE. You need to put it in the plugin manager first then run the game. But I don't think that's the main reason why many RPG Maker dev subconsciously avoid scripting and prefer alternative solution more.
 
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TheoAllen

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Unlike other engines where you made everything from scratch from a coding standpoint, you learned how to show graphics, make it move, assign property, and play with variables. In RPG Maker the barrier to entry is hard, everything is already built-in with no clear where to start learning. So it is understandable that people had a hard time learning especially for those who didn't have the basics.

Imagine trying to make a simple bicycle versus modifying an already made airplane (and you have no idea how the airplane works) while hoping it doesn't crash.
 

ericv00

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@Tamina

The post of yours I originally responded to was responding to "Out of curiosity what do you consider to be the ”basic battle system” people dislike?"

Then you have a string of paragraphs that detail why the system is not great. Amongst these is:

"Each character always move once per turn so the best choice every turn is almost always whatever move that deals the most damage, or heal HP if HP gets low."

This isn't a problem of the engine, because multiple actions per turn are possible in the engine and more dynamic actions are possible. I don't care about your other paragraph on this point. The one you mentioned I had a very specific response to, and quite frankly, I've grown tired of the manner of the replies, so I'm not interested in continuing forward, rewording, re-contextualizing, repeating.

There also seems to be a fundemental disconnect between what I post and what you interpret, so there is nothing fruitful in continuing. Best of luck to you.
 

wilpuri

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Then you The post of yours I originally responded to was responding to "Out of curiosity what do you consider to be the ”basic battle system” people dislike?"

I believe that was my post and it was genuine interest and I’ve had helpful responses from you and others.
 

Tamina

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@Tamina

Then you have a string of paragraphs that detail why the system is not great. Amongst these is:

"Each character always move once per turn so the best choice every turn is almost always whatever move that deals the most damage, or heal HP if HP gets low."

I don't care about your other paragraph on this point.

Well yeah, if you cherry pick ONE sentence in a string of paragraph describing an entire system of gameplay, but purposely choose to ignore everything else written in the same post, you will miss the main point.

The main point of that post wasn't to discuss if action time+ is doable with default or not, but fun mechanics from other successful games (like the AP system) and implementing them. But I guess you missed the more important 2nd part.

Admittedly now that I read it again it does kind of sound like I was saying action time + isn't available in default system, which certainly wasn't my intention.

Whatever.
 
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IvanForever

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I don't really think or care about the "stigma," if there is even one to begin with.

If you make a game that somehow draws your audience in, and have them wanting more and loving the experience, that's basically what matters. It doesn't really matter if it's made in RPG Maker or not.

While it might not be likely that would easily happen with a game made with mostly RTP, the possibility is still there.

While some people might say that they don't or won't play any RPG Maker games, I believe there are always exceptions and that it's still possible to break their rules. If your game can still capture even those people somehow (not saying this is something to aim for), you could be the leading example of something.

Plus, if your audience loves the style of the RTP or the general RPG Maker game style and "format," then that's your audience that matters to you.
 

Tamina

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Unlike other engines where you made everything from scratch from a coding standpoint, you learned how to show graphics, make it move, assign property, and play with variables. In RPG Maker the barrier to entry is hard, everything is already built-in with no clear where to start learning. So it is understandable that people had a hard time learning especially for those who didn't have the basics.

Imagine trying to make a simple bicycle versus modifying an already made airplane (and you have no idea how the airplane works) while hoping it doesn't crash.

This entire exchange really gave me food for thought, I wonder if it's really skill or knowledge that's affecting our thought process, or just the mindset.

I'm not a very knowledgeable nor skilled game dev by any means. For example, I don't have the ability to code an entire game system from scratch. When it comes to creating games from scratch I don't think I'm any better than other RPG Maker dev here.

But I always tell myself that I am a "game designer", not just a "RPG Maker user". My job as a game designer is to "create the best possible game mechanics for the players", not "push the potential of RPG Maker system to the fullest".

If I see a great game like Divinity Original Sin 2, my reaction would be "This combat system is so good, how can I implement it in my game and improve it to make it even better", not "This system is tough to do in RPG Maker, so I'm going to be creative and brainstorm a different solution instead."

To me, RPG Maker is just one out of many tools for a game designer to accomplish design goals, nothing less and nothing more. It's not my responsibility to make the best use of it. I can choose how to use it depending on my goal, or if I even want to use it at all.

I suppose that's why scripting and RTP discussion often turns into heated debate. Because fundamentally, it's about who we are as a game dev. The one who identify themselves as an artist will fight against RTP because they are the artist. Artist's job is create art, not using something made by someone else.

And the one who identify as a "game designer" will probably approach a design problem very differently from someone who see themselves as a "RPG Maker dev". Not saying one is better than another, just different that's all.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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TheoAllen

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@Tamina My post has nothing to do with designing games. It is purely for technical skill rather than designing a design. There is a difference between operating Photoshop and having an artistic sense.

So, I have no idea why you even had to wonder about that.
 

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