Announcement RPG Maker MV School in Trouble! Please Help.

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV School' started by Touchfuzzy, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    Hi Everyone.

    I'm aware that the RMMV school has been underwhelming so far. The initial run was scrapped in favor of a new start, and progress has been slow.

    In the last run for the orientation, we received very very few submissions.

    The truth is, we can't do this project without the help of the fans. Both Rhino and I really enjoy the concept, but the truth is, neither of us have the time to do this on our own, or even together, without the community enjoyment. And to be honest, I'm not even sure that this project is worth it without the community aspect. There are plenty of tutorials out there.

    As such, orientation submission deadlines are switched to two weeks from now.

    On April 17th, the doors close.

    If we don't get enough support, this project will have to be closed. Thank you.

    Information on what we need: https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/inde...l-round-1-winners-round-2-announcement.92027/
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    #1
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  2. Dreadshadow

    Dreadshadow Lv 38 Tech Magician Moderator

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    Where can we get a glimpse of what we can do?
    I mean are there subjects we can choose, or can we focus on whatever we want?
     
    #2
  3. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    #3
  4. Infinite Angel

    Infinite Angel Villager Member

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    Please don't give up.

    I think it is worthwhile to continue this project. Though there are many tutorials out there - learning can be made easier and more enjoyable (and faster) when there is some form of organization. And the RPG Maker MV school is one good example of getting things organized.

    And it's not only about organization. The RPG Maker MV school also highlights the importance of Learning RPG Maker's technology. I think Learning Materials should also grow in number ---- just like the Official Resource Packs. They are both important.

    Any act towards a better understanding and clearer view of things is a legitimate one. It gives a person more certainty and confidence.

    Maybe this could be helped by applying some marketing principles to make it more attractive to the community. For example, a community event such a contest with a prize could be tied to it - at least, to help boost its initial creation.

    The contest could, for example, be divided between Story Makers and Tutorial Makers ... and the winning story could become the main story while the other entries could become other quests or even almost equally important alternate stories.

    And to help create the necessary knowledge for the MV School, the Tutorial Maker Contest could be divided into two parts :

    1. Basic Knowledge Instruction
    2. Advanced Knowledge Instruction.

    Then the best materials would then be selected according to the clarity of instruction and ease of practical application etc ..

    The winning tutorials could be reviewed - and then organized into a series of orderly knowledge progressions.

    And, ultimately, the winning stories and winning tutorials could be combined into the first complete version of the RPG Maker MV School.

    But, in any case, the main point I'm trying to make is that this project is worthwhile.

    And if it seems that there is no hope .. maybe hope could be created too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  5. Dreadshadow

    Dreadshadow Lv 38 Tech Magician Moderator

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    I don't wanna let this project die, even if I have to make every part of it myself. But if we could find people to collaborate, that would be great.
     
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  6. mauvebutterfly

    mauvebutterfly Veteran Veteran

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    I have a half finished event (puzzle) lesson and most of an intro. I had a health scare and have been into the hospital every few days since the last week of March so I didn't get it done on time, but I'll try to get some progress on it this weekend and will post what I have then.

    Health scare wasn't serious (probably) but they keep running different tests just to make sure. Hopefully today will be the last one and I'll have my life back again.

    I wasn't entirely sure how to structure my lesson, which is part of the reason I didn't finish it earlier. That's why I'm committing to posting it this weekend so I can get some feedback and direction on whether or not what I'm doing is going to fit the proposed structure of this project.
     
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  7. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    I really don't want to see this project die, but like, I just have no time to work on another of my completely useless tutorials. T_T
     
    #7
  8. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom, Ham of a Hamster Veteran

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    @Infinite Angel MV school round 1 was announced when it started. In fact, to current day it holds 9000 views and 110+ posts. Round 2 was not announced, but even still, if I'm interested in a project, I check it on my own from time to time.

    MV school round 2 has been launched on Feb 27. This time, unlike the first time, there was no competition like IGMC. The thread has only less than 1000 views as of now!
    MV 1.6.0 open beta had ALSO been announced when it was launched. People had months to help test it... Only 7 people reported any sorts of problems. But once MV 1.6.0 got launched...
    Currently there are 12,000+ views and 172 replies. Launch date only 6 days before MV school round 2.
    Interestingly enough, MV school round 1 and 2 combined still have over 1000+ less views and less posts than MV 1.6.0 update. And this update, btw., contains quite a lot of backlash comments.

    I just didn't say it, because I didn't want to be that guy who ruins peoples' efforts. But exactly due to the fact that I have seen it all along, I've predicted that this project was doomed to fail.
    Because it's not announcements what this community is lacking. It's commitment what this community is lacking. People are much more happy when Yanfly, Khas or other popular plugin makers release a new plugin than when something happens they can be a part of (unless of course it's about actual game making).
    I don't want to talk about WHY it is. I know some people don't have time, some people aren't involved, some people are just lurkers, some feel they aren't fit to create a lesson, some are there just for getting help without giving anything in return, but it doesn't matter. The result is what it is, a community with lack of commitment.

    And if somebody or anybody feels the situation is different... I dare you, prove me wrong.
     
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  9. VideoWizard

    VideoWizard Dragon Kingdoms Series producer Veteran

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    @Poryg Maybe it's the language barrier, but the above sounds rude. "Actual game making?"

    I think part of the problem is there aren't enough students in the school. So far, there are only seven characters? That doesn't really give much of a base to make lessons for. Unless all the students were intended to be NPCs.

    It would have been great to meet and be involved with characters from the more popular RPG Maker games, but sadly that didn't happen. A tutorial on defending and changing how that works in the editor with Turtly, adding anime cutscenes from Echo607's Akira, setting up a turn order window and such with NeoSoulGamer's Oswyn, all things that won't happen.

    Hopefully this doesn't die, but it's not looking good right now.
     
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  10. fimamati

    fimamati Veteran Veteran

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    Why not ask to feature the best tutorials? They are already made. Scan the forums for FAQ's and give them to the npcs. What I saw so far was interesting; However not enough for me to enroll as a student. Though i'll probably keep my eyes on it. Poryg has a point about announcements and commitment. Make it and the students will come.
     
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  11. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom, Ham of a Hamster Veteran

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    @VideoWizard I was sleep depraved and had very little time, so I couldn't formulate it properly. I meant by that the fact that some are here just for game making and nothing else. For example some people are here as freelancers and not really to make a game.

    As I said though, it's completely irrelevant what the reasons are, because the result is community projects will die if the community is not dedicated to work as one, if I say it like that. This is a very loose community, in other words everyone is here on their own instead of people having common goal. Loose community is not a bad thing, it's just unsuitable for community projects.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  12. Tea's Jams

    Tea's Jams I'm human Veteran

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    I have to agree with this statement, this isn't a community project kind of thing. For something like this to succeed, imo, someone would have to be paid to dedicate a lot of time on it.

    As a youtuber who makes tutorials I can say they are already a lot of work in that format, making them into mini games increases that work by a lot. It's cute and a really fun idea, but ultimately impractical.
     
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  13. mlogan

    mlogan Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Wouldn’t this actually be an argument FOR making it a community project?
     
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  14. Tea's Jams

    Tea's Jams I'm human Veteran

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    @mlogan

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea. I seriously considered doing a project for it, but decided I don't have the extra time. I would love to see this succeed.
     
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  15. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

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    I hope the MV School Project will be successful.

    It's a fun concept to have forum members show up as characters. And it responds to the fact that many users come to these forums in order to learn.

    Big thanks to everyone who has contributed their time and effort so far, and their ideas how to keep the project going. @Infinite Angel those were some good ideas that can have results.

    Since I can't make a lesson, I'll post my opinions as an observer. The emphasis is on things that could be changed or that I think are confusing.


    Contributions:
    The reason I haven't contributed a lesson is that: although I own MV (for a couple of months now) I am not familiar with it at all.
    I still use Ace for my game, so I can't create a tutorial.
    If non-MV users can contribute to the school in some way, that'd be great, but I don't know how to help.

    When the School started people were asked to submit their character.
    That step was pretty successful imo. If i remember correctly most submitted NPC students and few wanted to be Teachers
    - Did those who say they wanted to contribute a lesson did so? If not, why? Aren't they aware of the submissions? Were the lessons they wanted to make too advanced for the current levels?

    The large submission of characters shows that people were interested in the project.


    Announcements:
    I agree that it's hard to follow where the school project is at (and to be reminded of it).
    There used to be a banner on the main forum page but that stayed up a lot while the school was inactive. It'd be nice if the banner had a different text on it from time to time, to tell us what's currently the goal: New Round of submissions & current deadline for example.

    I think adding prizes for the teachers is a good idea. It is worth rewarding those who give their time. And they deserve a compensation, like a shop discount or something.
    Perhaps a special badge too for making a lesson? :)


    Organization:
    The project is a bit confusing at the moment. It's hard to understand what must be submitted, in what format. Perhaps some screenshots can help people visualize what a lesson looks like? Who the student is, etc...
    A video playthrough of one lesson as an example for content & length?

    I hope April 17th is a reasonable deadline but it might be a short notice. For someone to read this, get familiar with the project and submit something. It's also unclear how many submissions will be considered "enough" for the project to continue.
    It's hard to invest time on something that is being talked about as a failed endeavor.

    This project will need long-term input to be successful. Something that people can keep adding to.
    Or if the deadline remains open or if it lasts much longer.
    I find it difficult for a person to make a tutorial on short notice, because rl may be complicated at that specific time. And a tutorial requires a lot of focus.
    Is there are reason why members can't submit a lesson (outside of the listed ones), and if it's too advanced for it to be kept on the side?

    :LZScat:

    @Poryg In a community people bring different talents even if their goals are similar (to help the community) but I disagree that the members here aren't committed.

    About your earlier post, I think you're overlooking certain things.
    The 1st topic has been around for 6 months while Round 2 is about 2 months? That alone will affect the numbers.
    The 1st time people submitted characters (mostly students). In Round 2 making specific lessons is the goal. The round isn't open to everyone, like the character submission was. Only to those who can & want to create the specific lesson. Of course input will be smaller. This doesn't prove lack of interest.

    There was a competition: Release Something Event for the birthday (until mid March). A lot happened on the forum in the last couple of months, Re-staff release, MV upgrades, new packs, (new RM Coalition release although not official site stuff). It's hard to concentrate on many things, it's easy to forget if not reminded & creative people had put their effort on these different projects recently, perhaps they were tired.

    Comparing MV upgrade views with MV school views is irrelevant.

    About commitment, there's a lot of it. If we take into account the hard work the moderators do voluntarily, all the artistic and musical contributions, everyone who answers queries and those who join on others' games dev freely. A great chunk of the members here contribute for the good of the group. Unless I have my rose-colored glasses on and can't see things clearly? (Wouldn't be too surprising in my case).

    :LZScat:

    @Dreadshadow I hope you'll get lots of help and not take on too much of the weight. The game tutorial you did for Ace was great and I think mv deserves a solid project too, which hopefully, a united effort can make happen.

    ps I hope these observations can be helpful in some way. Cheers to all and best of luck with this and all projects!

    :)
     
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  16. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom, Ham of a Hamster Veteran

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    @starlight dream Unfortunately I'm not overlooking anything.
    Let's see.
    There's discussion of ideas. MV school could definitely use people asking for what needs to be covered and perhaps a teacher could take that as an inspiration. A flowing discussion is better than nothing. And yes, I have to agree that it was not a good move to close the round 1 thread, but again, if people had been committed to it, they would have checked. I had been eyeing MV school for round 2, because I was interested in direct participation beyond posting an NPC character. Was I the only one though?

    Feedback. The most important thing. The fact that I hated the most in my DIY series was that I received zero feedback on it, so had no direction as to where it should lead. And if I take MV School lessons... They have some views... But usually the only feedback comes from other lesson makers and not even from observers.
    On the other hand, take a look at the mentioned MV update. It received a huge backlash. But it did receive feedback. Simply because it directly influenced thousands of people.

    Then there's moral support, praying to Cookie god and I'm sure many other indirect ways an observer can participate in such a project.

    Round 1 had a total of 6 submissions despite the deadline getting extended. One of these lessons even popped up after the deadline, yet was still accepted. There were around 10 people who announced making a lesson during round 1 and some didn't make it... They didn't submit it for round 2 though. There are 2 visible submissions from round 2, both are mine (presumably there's also a submission waiting for approval of mods though, so perhaps I'm not the only one to submit this round). I had begun my first lesson before the round 2 was even announced and after I finished it, I had to convert it to the new MV school version. There were people that had their lessons from round 1, but didn't finish them.



    Not for nothing, that's already supposed to be happening. Just none of the lesson submitors gave any feedback in what prize they'd like :D (Although I don't really do it for a prize, so I don't really mind :p)

    Not to be rude, but there are already 7 lesson submissions and one orientation available. Then there is also Touch's lesson.
    As for length, it has been said in Round 1 it was up to the teacher.

    When our apartment was going to get internet connection via wifi modem and the condition for that was that we clean our room, I did as much as I could... But one day was just not enough. So I said I needed more time.
    Father answered: "More time? You've had years!"
    And he was right.
    This is the same case. MV school has been out since November. Therefore it's pointless to give months long deadlines any further.

    My console course is a prime example. It is a fairly advanced course. But no matter, it will be kept at bay until the time comes to deploy advanced projects.

    I will not deny the values members provide to the community. But there's a difference between a loose community with community members dedicated to various things and a closed community where everybody supports the common goal with their skills.
    It is exactly as you said, certain people arec committed to graphics, some to scripts, some need a collab for their projects,... But a common commitment of the community, we are missing that.
    And again, no wonder. Everybody has different interests.
     
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  17. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

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    @Poryg Thanks for bringing up some points how people can support the project. It is helpful to see things like that listed.

    Only a minority of character submissions were for Teachers. Those who submitted an NPC student, might've checked later but they weren't planning to create anything beyond the character, so the lesson threads weren't for them necessarily. Commitment is something one promises to follow-through on, those who submitted NPC characters made no promise to contribute to the lessons.

    Exactly. We can't expect the school, or any other side project to receive the same attention as an mv upgrade. So why make the comparison with the upgrade?

    That's good^^ It seems like participation is higher in events, when there are prizes to be won. Everyone doesn't think like you. Many people need motivation in a shiny gift form.
    It doesn't really motivate me to get a reward either.

    I didn't say this information isn't posted anywhere. But I imagine if someone clicks MV School Forum for the first time, it'll be confusing how to find the right info.
    The project started 6 months ago. Odds are a lot of active members today weren't back then. I try to think as a newcomer.

    I was talking about Round 2's deadline specifically. Originally it was 1 month long (with other events going on, with holidays coming up, there's another holiday at the moment). Can a 2 week extension make a big difference? Someone who can't contribute right now (or last month) because they're swamped by work, exams, health issues, babies, will not find more time within a week.
    If the teachers were in the dozens or more, then it'd be possible to get a few within a time limit, even if others couldn't. But when only few members can create a lesson, being pressed by time isn't helping. The odds are some of those people won't be available.
    If MV School started in November, that's irrelevant. Because for a long period it was on halt, so why would have someone worked on it back then?
    And member participation on a forum changes within 6 months.
    Your room was entirely under your control though :p We all have different schedules and these fluctuate too. For some people 1 year to work on something may be a long deadline. For me a year is a short deadline. :LZSbleh:

    Yes people have different skills but they use them for the same Goal: to help the community. The commitment to the community is there imo.
    The MV school requires contributors of specific skills. It doesn't mean if ppl don't have those skills, that they lack interest for the good of the group. In fact this is the only community I've seen with members that are selflessly dedicated to it and to each other.
     
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  18. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    I'm honestly not blaming anyone. Just telling the truth: Neither me nor Rhino can do it on our own, and this project is honestly just turned into a big bit of extra stress for me.

    If anyone, I blame myself. I haven't been able to work on it as much as I had hoped from the start. Rhino saved me a lot on just keeping things straight. I agree that it hasn't been handled perfectly, in fact, the big reset could have been avoided had I been more conscious of what we wanted to do from the start. I've probably not been 100% clear on what was needed. I haven't always replied to people quick enough. I think at the moment I have a PM that I need to respond to right now (which I'm going to do as soon as I finish this post.)

    To be clear: We need orientations made, this is discussed in the thread I have linked in the OP. If someone wants to ask for better specifics, sure, but let's not argue over whose fault things are.

    I don't blame anyone for not having time. I don't blame anyone if the project fails. It just wasn't meant to happen. The community has not been as attentive to the project as I'd like, but I'll admit I also didn't have the strong leadership on it that would have been necessary to drive it.

    I just have to give a deadline to say "you know what, its done" because otherwise this will hang over me forever, and it feels like crap.
     
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  19. ShinGamix

    ShinGamix DS Style 4Ever! Veteran

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    Question? Is this an actual learning event or a project?? I want to learn plugin scripting.
     
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  20. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

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    @Touchfuzzy I understand entirely. You're human, and some things are just too big to handle alone, or during certain times. And without enough support there's nothing you or @Rhino can do.

    I apologize if what I wrote before sounded like blame unintentionally.

    Hopefully the project will receive submissions. But if not, we'll move on. It's all good! :)
     
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