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@starlight dream Nobody is blaming anybody, I'd say.
Anyway, to answer you a bit better than I did previously:
And again, it's not true that if you can't submit a lesson, you can't contribute to the project. Suggesting ideas is always an option. Making requests is an option. These requests could also convince some of the observers that "Hmm, I can make this lesson!". In fact I think that many people who don't think they can make a lesson can make a lesson. They just need an incentive and an idea.
And of course there's feedback to what's already been done... Or even just spamming a message to keep the project alive. During the first round people often said "It's a great thought!" And when people reply to it, it means it's alive.
On the other hand once round 2 was announced, no such life was present in it. Only now when things escalated there's finally something going on.
As for deadlines, it's completely irrelevant in many cases as to how long they are. 14 days... That's too short to participate! 3 months... Nah, plenty of time. And boom, suddenly 14 days remaining and I haven't even begun.
Of course people have various obstacles in their life. I had mine too. In fact all my schedules I have set for myself have at least weeks of delay. But I was able to find 8 hours in total to construct a lesson. 2 hours here, 2 hours there,... Then I was able to construct another one, even if it meant I had to temporarily put plugin development on hold for that, even though plugin making is my pretty much only stable income. Commissioners were understanding about it, so no damage done, but still...
And I have to agree, the good of the community is pretty much a common goal... But again, while there are members committed to it, it's individuals. I've seen communities where people did everything they could to achieve a common goal, not a small portion of them. That's what makes the difference between closed community and open community. The easiest example are ant communities. Everybody is different. There are workers, soldiers and the Queen. Everybody works as one mind though, even though they have different skills.
Open communities have an easier set of rules. You are free to enter or leave and pursue your own interests. However, it's pursuing of your own interests that puts members committed to the community a minority. Which is completely fine for community as a whole. However...
PIXI, the 2D graphics rendering engine MV uses, is a group project. Not even a community project, just a group project. Let's say 15 people work on it directly. 50 of them talk about it or do minor works. And then there's a giant segment of people that just gives feedback and suggests new ideas. Some of it are random users that come and go and are replaced by others that come and go, some of it are frequent users. But they give feedback, which is just as important as the developer squad. How would they fare if they had no active community of feedback givers or even user base?
And of course another giant segment of banned.url supporters. But that's not important now.
Here you can pretty much see a committed community. They have a number of devs (of course the number is exaggerated to illustrate the point), number of small workers and a huge base of regulars and random users. It's sheer numbers that have given growth to a community dedicated to PIXI, even though the members of the feedback group come and go, because they're "just" one-time users.
I agree that this community has enough people dedicated to it as a whole.
But MV school has no community dedicated to it. The people committed to it are in units. Not even 10 people. Some submitted characters, but that was all work they did. I built two lessons, but it was mostly insiders who provided feedback.
So while we cannot blame anyone for not participating, it's the fact that almost nobody did that this project was doomed.
Hope I clarified my points.
Anyway, to answer you a bit better than I did previously:
The numbers say everything. I'm not sure how many people are here, but we can't have a successful community project if less than 1% of the active community makes contributions (there is one exception to it: If the sheer number of committed members had been large). A community project needs to have at least the attention of a community project. So the fact that the MV school round 2 couldn't reach even 10% of MV 1.6.0 update's views and from these 10% views only few were of committed members simply says there was no way it was going to work. That's what I was trying to say, I should have explained myself better.
And again, it's not true that if you can't submit a lesson, you can't contribute to the project. Suggesting ideas is always an option. Making requests is an option. These requests could also convince some of the observers that "Hmm, I can make this lesson!". In fact I think that many people who don't think they can make a lesson can make a lesson. They just need an incentive and an idea.
And of course there's feedback to what's already been done... Or even just spamming a message to keep the project alive. During the first round people often said "It's a great thought!" And when people reply to it, it means it's alive.
On the other hand once round 2 was announced, no such life was present in it. Only now when things escalated there's finally something going on.
If I don't know something, I'll just ask. That's how it always worked.
As for deadlines, it's completely irrelevant in many cases as to how long they are. 14 days... That's too short to participate! 3 months... Nah, plenty of time. And boom, suddenly 14 days remaining and I haven't even begun.
Of course people have various obstacles in their life. I had mine too. In fact all my schedules I have set for myself have at least weeks of delay. But I was able to find 8 hours in total to construct a lesson. 2 hours here, 2 hours there,... Then I was able to construct another one, even if it meant I had to temporarily put plugin development on hold for that, even though plugin making is my pretty much only stable income. Commissioners were understanding about it, so no damage done, but still...
It was never on halt. Touch worked on it and gave procedural reports about it. It took long, because he was alone on it for a long time and he himself is very busy... Which is why he asked for a second. After some time, Rhino was introduced as the second and the speed picked up.
And I have to agree, the good of the community is pretty much a common goal... But again, while there are members committed to it, it's individuals. I've seen communities where people did everything they could to achieve a common goal, not a small portion of them. That's what makes the difference between closed community and open community. The easiest example are ant communities. Everybody is different. There are workers, soldiers and the Queen. Everybody works as one mind though, even though they have different skills.
Open communities have an easier set of rules. You are free to enter or leave and pursue your own interests. However, it's pursuing of your own interests that puts members committed to the community a minority. Which is completely fine for community as a whole. However...
PIXI, the 2D graphics rendering engine MV uses, is a group project. Not even a community project, just a group project. Let's say 15 people work on it directly. 50 of them talk about it or do minor works. And then there's a giant segment of people that just gives feedback and suggests new ideas. Some of it are random users that come and go and are replaced by others that come and go, some of it are frequent users. But they give feedback, which is just as important as the developer squad. How would they fare if they had no active community of feedback givers or even user base?
And of course another giant segment of banned.url supporters. But that's not important now.
Here you can pretty much see a committed community. They have a number of devs (of course the number is exaggerated to illustrate the point), number of small workers and a huge base of regulars and random users. It's sheer numbers that have given growth to a community dedicated to PIXI, even though the members of the feedback group come and go, because they're "just" one-time users.
I agree that this community has enough people dedicated to it as a whole.
But MV school has no community dedicated to it. The people committed to it are in units. Not even 10 people. Some submitted characters, but that was all work they did. I built two lessons, but it was mostly insiders who provided feedback.
So while we cannot blame anyone for not participating, it's the fact that almost nobody did that this project was doomed.
Hope I clarified my points.
Last edited:
XD
