RPG Maker MV?

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timk1980

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I'm in the camp that definitely think and hope there'll be a new RTP. Why? It's being made to export to mobile. Mobile have high-resolution displays in small formats. A tile size of 32x32 will be too tiny on, say, an iPhone 6 with its retina resolution of 1334 x 750 @336 PPI. That's 336 points per inch, meaning in one inch there'd be room for 10 32px tiles horizontally and vertically. Imagine the squinting to make out the characters in that?

Two solutions to this conundrum: scale the 32x32 tiles up by a factor of 2x without anti-aliasing / blurring them. This will look jaggy on even the small screen of the iPhone 6, though. Or you increase the tile size to somewhere around 1.5x (48x48 or above). If you look at what most people seem to prefer, I think the latter is more likely, especially considering #5 in the picture.
For any mobile porting, some type of scaling is going to be at play pretty much no matter what.  Actual mobile app development (at a lower level than what someone using RPGM would need to care about most likely) isn't typically done in terms of raw pixel values anyway.
 

Pine

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Even if there were a completely new RTP that looked totally different, it's only a matter of time before it gets the same stigma as the existing RTP.  Nothing will change the number of people who "publish" junk.  Not directing that at any particular person or project, just a general observation with which I suspect most of us agree.
I agree completely. New RTP wouldn't change that.

Honestly, I'm not even on the new RTP versus old RTP camp for myself. If I want to make a game, I'd be more than capable of creating my own charactersets. It's not about me. It's about the community. I think it'd be sad that new adopters would be left out because of lack of resources. Or that the new RM would be adopted slower because it lacks custom stuff.

Time heals all that, of course. But it's a pain in the rear. I lived it when XP's RTP was ditched on VX and creating new stuff for it was slow and painful.
 

Galenmereth

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That's because most mobile app development is done with vector visuals or textures on flat surfaces in an engine ala Unity. But once you do make a raster based game, you need to consider what I wrote in my previous post. You can't just scale it up willy nilly either :)

The best solution for everyone? Configurable tile size. Win win. This is what most 2d engines will let you do, so that the developers can decide what visuals to use more freely.
 
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timk1980

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That's because most mobile app development is done with vector visuals or textures on flat surfaces in an engine ala Unity. But once you do make a raster based game, you need to consider what I wrote in my previous post. You can't just scale it up willy nilly either :)

The best solution for everyone? Configurable tile size. Win win. This is what most 2d engines will let you do, so that the developers can decide what visuals to use more freely.
Very true, sounds like you're familiar with app development, which is good :)

I think configurable tile size is likely not going to happen (WAY too complicated for the intended audience), but I am very interested to see how it is being handled, since it's a very real-world issue on mobile, in some form or another.

(Full disclosure: I haven't used RM for about a year or more now and instead now do stuff with Unity, though I do still own XP/VX/Ace, and take some interest in following it, since it's a nifty little program.)  Honestly, I feel that way about a lot of the features of the engine.. I'm interested to see how the various things work, and what tradeoffs and decisions have been made, etc.
 

MirageV

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You know...

If there was a new RTP, it's not like the old RTP would actually go anywhere. It wouldn't simply vanish into the ether. You can use RTP resources across makers, and with the veritable mountain of RTP resources amassed during the VXA era, people surely wouldn't leave it all behind when they move on. It would get ported over and continue to see use, no?

So why can't there be both? 

But that's just a hypothetical. Judging from the scan, the current RTP tileset style seems to be retained with some sort of improvement. But it's a thought.
 

Seriel

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But that's just a hypothetical. Judging from the scan, the current RTP tileset style seems to be retained with some sort of improvement. But it's a thought.
I'm assuming they reformatted it for Layer Mapping.
 

Wilczek

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I'm in the camp that definitely think and hope there'll be a new RTP. Why? It's being made to export to mobile. Mobile have high-resolution displays in small formats. A tile size of 32x32 will be too tiny on, say, an iPhone 6 with its retina resolution of 1334 x 750 @336 PPI. That's 336 points per inch, meaning in one inch there'd be room for 10 32px tiles horizontally and vertically. Imagine the squinting to make out the characters in that?

Two solutions to this conundrum: one is to scale the 32x32 tiles up by a factor of 2x without anti-aliasing / blurring them. This will look jaggy on even the small screen of the iPhone 6, though. The other is to increase the tile size to somewhere around 1.5x (48x48 or above). If you look at what most people seem to prefer, I think the latter is more likely, especially considering #5 in the picture.
Or you can upscale the resolution - by Zeus-like scripts, or by using vectorization or similar technique. For example, I find xBR pretty useful and giving decent results.
 

ashikai

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A vector tileset would be hella interesting....
 

timk1980

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Funny thing about layer mapping, it actually exists in both VX and Ace, just that you can't control each of the three layers individually.  But they are there internally, and the graphics are more or less setup that way already (at least, sort of)
 

Seacliff

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Funny thing about layer mapping, it actually exists in both VX and Ace, just that you can't control each of the three layers individually.  But they are there internally, and the graphics are more or less setup that way already (at least, sort of)
Except VX and Ace has two layers.

Section A is the lower layer while B-E is the second.

You can count eventing as a third layer, but then that means XP really has FOUR layers.
 
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A lot of people are talking about technical stuff, but there are worse things they could do with a new RPG Maker.

They could have criticals do 4x damage by default...
 

Pine

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You know...

If there was a new RTP, it's not like the old RTP would actually go anywhere. It wouldn't simply vanish into the ether. You can use RTP resources across makers, and with the veritable mountain of RTP resources amassed during the VXA era, people surely wouldn't leave it all behind when they move on. It would get ported over and continue to see use, no?

So why can't there be both? 

But that's just a hypothetical. Judging from the scan, the current RTP tileset style seems to be retained with some sort of improvement. But it's a thought.
Until it's eventually abandoned. Which may happen. 

I'm not sure but how many games these days use XP RTP?
 

Erika Fuzzbottom

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Okay, let's look at the graphics situation from a different perspective: people who are playing created games.

We've been using VX-style graphics since VX's original release in 2008.  We're at a point where people are going to be less and less willing to play anything that resembles a VX game, in favor of games that completely deviate from the original graphics.

If MV's default graphics were using a new art style, there'd probably be a lot more interest for games made using them.  Yeah, eventually MV's default graphics would recieve the same stigma that VX's graphics do now, but which is better:

MV looking fresh and new for a year or two, or

MV being stale right out of the box?
 

timk1980

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Except VX and Ace has two layers.

Section A is the lower layer while B-E is the second.

You can count eventing as a third layer, but then that means XP really has FOUR layers.
Clarifying, note that I said internally. It just doesn't let you edit them independently.  The way the mapping works, you're limited on what you can draw in each layer, but programmatically all three still exist.  The bottom layer is the landform, middle layer is hills/trees/etc, and the top layer is everything from pages B-E.  It's possible to programmatically shove anything you want into any of those three layers, even (potentially with some unexpected and funky results).

Many people were and still are sad, however, that you can't control each layer individually as you could in XP.  I would tend to agree they have a point :)
 

Pine

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Okay, let's look at the graphics situation from a different perspective: people who are playing created games.

We've been using VX-style graphics since VX's original release in 2008.  We're at a point where people are going to be less and less willing to play anything that resembles a VX game, in favor of games that completely deviate from the original graphics.
Falacy. Different graphics don't inherently mean more attraction or more attention from potential players.
 

Seriel

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Wrote a post but then accidently clicked off the box and pressed backspace :D

Long story short: I like XP graphics better.
 

timk1980

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Falacy. Different graphics don't inherently mean more attraction or more attention from potential players.
I think there may actually be something to it, at least if you look the other way.  Different graphics, at least for a limited time, may not mean more attraction, but may mean less detraction from potential players.  I think the lifetime of that logic is likely to be fairly short-lived, though.
 

Seacliff

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Clarifying, note that I said internally. It just doesn't let you edit them independently.  The way the mapping works, you're limited on what you can draw in each layer, but programmatically all three still exist.  The bottom layer is the landform, middle layer is hills/trees/etc, and the top layer is everything from pages B-E.  It's possible to programmatically shove anything you want into any of those three layers, even (potentially with some unexpected and funky results).

Many people were and still are sad, however, that you can't control each layer individually as you could in XP.  I would tend to agree they have a point :)
Ah, I forgot the landform layer. That makes sense.
 

Pine

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I think there may actually be something to it, at least if you look the other way.  Different graphics, at least for a limited time, may not mean more attraction, but may mean less detraction from potential players.  I think the lifetime of that logic is likely to be fairly short-lived, though.
For that to be true, logically, you'd have to assume the potential player has played RM-made games extensively. You can't assume that. Maybe my meta audience is outside the RM communnity?
 
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