RPG Maker MZ, Preview #2: Graphics, Mapping, Eventing!

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Knightmare

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Skurge

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Is it just me or are the tile set graphics just recycled MV ones?
I'm all for new mugshot faces styles etc, but couldn't the tile sets be changed too?
 

Sharm

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@Skurge They're new, they're just very similar. I would like a more dramatic shakeup in the tileset style as well, but I guess I can understand the reasoning for keeping it close to the same.
 

K2loid

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@K2loid it's literally eyedropped from his color palette and there was a bright light across everyone's faces so that's probably why it looks like that? The coloring for everyone in that video is actually bright in general compared to my usual style so eh.
Yeah, I can see the spotlight effect on Reid there. I too have run into the dreaded "tried some filters, something went horribly wrong" issue with lighting. I'm actually on the verge of redrawing a piece right now because of it. A delectable bait that leads to our downfall.

I think it's obvious enough it's not a human skintone, but for wider audience's sake,

So jarring it had to be a lighting snafu.
 
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WesdrasLink

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Why not?
This is the main feature that i wanted for years!
This is a very sad news for me, i don't want to stick with 48x48 or use external programas to maker 16x16 or 32x32, i don't want to upscale my assets or use a plugin that renders only inside the game, i wanted to have all these features in the editor.
Sigh*
 

Prescott

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The RTP low-key reminds me of RM2K3 but in higher resolution. I like it.
 

Archeia

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Yeah, I can see the spotlight effect on Reid there. I too have run into the dreaded "tried some filters, something went horribly wrong" issue with lighting. I'm actually on the verge of redrawing a piece right now because of it. A delectable bait that leads to our downfall.

I think it's obvious enough it's not a human skintone, but for wider audience's sake,

So jarring it had to be a lighting snafu.
I don't know what your point is here, but the person who also helped me color is part color blind and she probably didn't notice the lighting was a bit too strong. The point I was making is telling me this now on such strict time constraints isn't helpful. It just adds stress to an already stressed out staff. If you actually want to see how much I respect Eric on my usual work this should speak for itself:

I'm tired and this is the last time I'll comment about it.
 

JosephSeraph

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@JosephSeraph I was the first one! Take my money first! TAKE IT, I SAY!
Kyehehehe thanks SM for the support! <3

I made a thread for them >:-3 so i don't derail the topic


As for the "MZ's tiles are the same" I think it's great that RPG Maker has firmly planted its feet in the current aesthetic. While it's not my favourite (that goes to XP) it's certainly easy to use, and for any RTP artist moving from MV to MZ, it'll be incredibly easy to make new tiles with the same techniques. It's cool. All the while bringing us the largest collection of assets in RM history! It's so awesome.


edit: i was gonna let the topic die but since Archeia mentioned it; I think coming for RMWeb staff isn't gonna be helpful in any way because this is a JP-side issue, and in fact an issue with Japanese media overall. As she's shown in the latest post Archeia's very respectful with Erik, and actually makes a point to feature him more often than normal. She and TouchFuzzy also are working very hard at keeping RMWeb a home for equality where everyone can feel safe and have voices. So yeah, pointing fingers at them isn't very productive.

I do hope we get a more diverse cast in the future though!
 

Candacis

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Yeah, what we have seen so far suggests that the faces and sprites are not very diverse. Again. MV had the same issue. Most of the time the few darker skintones were reserved for the more sinister looking characters.

But I'm curious to see the rest of the sprites/faces and be proven wrong.
 

Dalph

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I'm actually pleased too by the RTP cliffs looking slightly more roundish, if there's something I hated was the Minecraft cubic look that was introduced in VX

@K2loid
AKA how to nitpick about the sand in the ocean. I don't understand the point of your post nor I see much wrong with the lighting, and I'm an artist too (pixel-art only).
Considering the art was even rushed af I think it's still a superb job overall.
 

Touchfuzzy

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I'm a huge fan of Eric as well, he's probably my second favorite default hero, and the only reason I like Harold more is because the personality I always write Harold with is much much funnier and less of a serious character, which I feel Eric is mostly (Like I picture Eric as actually one of the most together of the default MCs, very easy going among friends and takes things kind of in stride (mostly because of our headcanon background for him, which I've always pictured as having made him have to grow up fast...)).
 

Dalph

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@Touchfuzzy
I prefer Harold over Eric as well, he is actually my second favourite and I write him stupid too, a bit like Goku from DB.
It's mostly because he look funny overall and I got sort of attached to that silly look, I simply cannot take seriously that armor he wears.

The top favourite has always been Ralph though.

#TeamRalph
:rtear:
 

JosephSeraph

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Aluxes was my favorite cutie just because he's so damn adorable. But Raidshadowlegends is challenging that.
 

Touchfuzzy

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My whole concept of Harold is just, incredibly earnest, not that bright. Always wants to be the hero, looks up to Ralph who IS the a famous hero, but is naive and gets taken in by sob stories all the time.

When he fails to be the hero, it is almost always because he didn't think things through very well. And if it isn't it is something completely outside of his control. The universe does not like it when things go his way.

And if he does manage to be the hero... somehow someone else gets credit for it.
 

Shaz

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Why not?
This is the main feature that i wanted for years!
This is a very sad news for me, i don't want to stick with 48x48 or use external programas to maker 16x16 or 32x32, i don't want to upscale my assets or use a plugin that renders only inside the game, i wanted to have all these features in the editor.
Sigh*
There are a lot of things that a lot of people have wanted for years.

To provide official support for multiple tile sizes within the editor, they would also have to provide a version of every tileset in every size, which would be a mammoth task - they're not just resized - they're drawn from scratch. And an appropriate version of every character sprite for every size as well. And as soon as they do that, someone will complain, "well you didn't provide it in this size and this is the size I want!"

There is nothing wrong with using a plugin for this.
 

Lihinel

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They would also have to provide a version of every tileset in every size...
...
There is nothing wrong with using a plugin for this.
I disagree, they wouldn't need to provide assets for every size, you can make your own, purchase older RPGmakers, or buy it from their or other stores.
And no, its not that simple with a plugin, with plugins, you need at least two versions of your tiles, one for in editor mapping and one for ingame display. I used to have a plugin in MV to change the size to 32x32 and it was a pain.
 

SJWebster

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@aston00 - That sounds a lot like scope creep. A single map open world RPG is a massive undertaking for a solo indie developer.

Even AAA open world games don't display the entire map at once. They either have loading zones like the bridge in the middle of Batman Arkham Origins or only load the area immediately around the player via culling. Even then, they use level of detail to swap out far away objects with versions that use less resources.

There are some really good behind the scenes videos where developers actually show you the cone of areas loading in and out in real-time. Horizon Zero Dawn has one but I can't find it on YouTube atm. Even linear stage based 2D games like Streets of Rage 4 make use of it. Considering RPG Maker is JavaScript based, maps are already tile based to optimise performance and loading times (referencing a tile from a sheet is cheaper than treating every tile as if it was a unique asset every time), and it primarily deploys to web browsers and mobile, that kind of dynamic context-sensitive loading is out of the engine's scope.

And when we do have open world games, lots of missions take place indoors in unique, segregated maps. I've been playing Saints Row 4 (it was £3.99 in a PSN sale and is scratching a Crackdown itch) and most of the missions take me to a new setting. In an RPG, you're going to be going inside towns, castles, and dungeons, it makes sense for those to be new maps.

That 250x250 limit's there to stop people pushing the engine beyond its limits and complaining about it. Unfortunately, some people instead complain about having a limit at all.

@JosephSeraph - Those are some damn fine sprites! Somewhere inbetween Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. Really liking the height and level of detail while still embodying that nostalgic retro pixel JRPG aesthetic!

Really happy to see an entire thread for them! I'm going to be following that pretty closely.

@K2loid - It really shows that RPG Maker is developed in Japan, where diversity and inclusion still has a very long way to go. Figures say around 97.8% of legal residents are native Japanese with only 2.2% of legal residents being foreign citizens. Something like 0.04% of the population are American and 0.02% are British.

Representation is a major issue. In Japan, they tend to prioritise their local audiences, they don't consider global audiences when deciding if an anime gets a second season for example. That primary audience is generally ignorant and people of colour are a minority within a minority, which results in the cringey approach to black characters we so often see in their media.

This board is for the English language release. You might reach people who are responsible for translation and localisation, there might even be a cultural consultant, and someone might be reporting back as to what audiences outside of Japan want, but the developers are in Japan, they're making it for the Japanese RPG Maker community, and English users of the engine will always feel like second-class citizens because, frankly, we are.

None of that excuses the cringey representation in the RPG Maker series, but hopefully it provides some context. What I would say is that RPG Maker is a base, you build on it from there. The RTP is supposed to be a placeholder in my view, you replace the graphics with your own. It's entirely possible to make a game with an all black cast covering any subject matter you'd like to discuss or raise awareness for.
 
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