RPG Maker MZ, Preview #2: Graphics, Mapping, Eventing!

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Kaliya

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We actually DID attempt to add multiple tile sizes to one of the MV updates just to see how hard it is to implement even though we have a vague idea of it. And the very first thing we encountered is the Event Placement and Autotiling issues. More issues kept cropping up and we decided it was not worth it for an MV update.
Don't remind me, it was bad. :rtear:
 

Parallax Panda

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I wonder...

Is there a possibility the RPG Maker MV Tools - Database ConVerter MV will get updated to allow us to export MV database files into MZ maybe?

Not really looking or an official answer or anything, just speculating out loud. :kaopride:
 

nio kasgami

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Don't remind me, it was bad. :rtear:
I am not that WELL versed when it come to software development but I assume the fact of updating the rendering for multi tile resolution was one of the biggest issue as well?

I feel that offering multiple tile size support on the fly would cause stress to the engine ?
I just imagine the engine crashing because you tried to change the tilesets size and it just go : BONK nope I am out.

I am very curious what was all the 'hickup' who was meet while trying to implement this feature ( not for arguiing or anything I am just genuily curious to hear all the nightmare you guys went through)
 

JosephSeraph

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To think that we got so close to multi tilesize MV is insane. But it also is entirely unsurprising that it was a nightmare. Only proves that any new features RM/MZ gets are because of how loudly our side's devteam are yellying and trying to make things happen. And also only proves how unfeasible certain things are XD
 
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chalkdust

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I'm glad to hear you tried. Details would be super intriguing. I didn't see the earlier posts on buried pages, but having made similar changes myself to another engine I just don't see any real reason this should be excessively difficult. Totally different software and I don't have access to the RMMV source, but in my experience it was mostly just magic numbers hiding throughout the code (in movement, collision detection, Action button tile targeting, etc) that needed to be replaced with proper variables. Not just "48 -> tilesize", but there may be places where they need to change something along the lines of "24 -> tilesize/2" or whatever. Every magic number is a bug until replaced. Once that's done, it's unlikely any serious bugs would remain. That was my experience in different software though, so idk. From a curious cat perspective I'd like to hear more if anybody wants to spill the beans.
 

JosephSeraph

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And the very first thing we encountered is the Event Placement and Autotiling issues. More issues kept cropping up and we decided it was not worth it for an MV update.
I think the event placement and autotiling issues suggest that the engine was written with a lot of stuff hardcoded in that if you break the 48 pixel value will just break everything up and need a complete rewrite of pretty much everything map related

but i wouldn't know

anyway that doesn't mean this logic couldn't been rethought for MZ but i think MZ did a lot more steps forward than the previous makers since XP did, maybe the next rpg maker will be able to do that, maybe i'll not, who knows.
 

Skurge

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There are ways to combat map limits, it's tedious but you can make different tilesets share same pathways, priorities etc and simply use a change map command when entering several rooms sharing the same map, that is one good thing I like about RPG maker is how much you can get away with given some of the limitations.

I do like some of the things this MZ is providing but it almost seems as if these could of been implemented in the engine update for MV? I'm no programmer but it looks to me like these neat functions could of been added to MV instead of a new purchase. MV still seems to young to be discontinued and I guess it's just me being conflicted with still using it on my game.
 

Failivrin

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First, THANK YOU whoever made the decision not to change the 48x48 tiles so I can finish my half-finished MV project in MZ. But do I want to...?

It may be too early to get information about this, but have they made any improvements regarding the ease or functionality of mobile deployment? Are we still bound by the old restrictions such as not being able to use light/shadow/parallax or complex eventing/plugins in a mobile release?
 

BCj

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I do hope MZ won't have the same problem as MV. Read: the updates are so massive/different older plugins break/stop working.
One of the big plusses is that for VX Ace I can find this very old plugins pre-english version and they still work. For MV I'd first have to check what version they were made for :/ so many plugins are completely messed up now.
 

JosephSeraph

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I lowkey hope the update cycle is very short if at all and they jump into the next RPG Maker sooner than in 5 years because if anything it's one of the few things that give me a sense of being alive and existing in a sea of drab

or perhaps i should see a therapist BUT A NEW RPG MAKER is a TIME for Celebration. Can You Celebrate? Can you kiss meeeeee.... tonightttt..... weeeeee will loooooove.... looooongggggggg ...... looong tiiimeee.......................... eeeeeeeeeien te iuuuuuuuuu kotoba nanteeee...... shiranakat..taaaa yo neeeee...............................


a
 

nio kasgami

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I do hope MZ won't have the same problem as MV. Read: the updates are so massive/different older plugins break/stop working.
One of the big plusses is that for VX Ace I can find this very old plugins pre-english version and they still work. For MV I'd first have to check what version they were made for :/ so many plugins are completely messed up now.
sadly this isn't something you can hope to happen every line of code that is changed to the corescript will break any plugin that depends on those said function who got changed.

this is just something you can't just hope that it does. Vx ace didn't got updated much at all even for various bug that would break our game. MV they get fixed WAY more actively since all the corescript is accessible.

tbh they did said an option who say : Update corescript. So they improved the game engine updater so you not forced to jump to the latest corescript version.

but yeah sadly I prefer having Update who fix many problem than having no update and a engine who is buggy and will crash on me. Reading version is the most basic thing to do in Game dev.
 

Shaz

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MV still seems to young to be discontinued and I guess it's just me being conflicted with still using it on my game
The MV -> MZ timeline is actually the longest we've had, so MV has had longer than any previous engine before being "discontinued". And because the resources are compatible, if you don't want to get MZ, it's likely that any new graphics packs released for MZ will be usable in MV as well. So even though MV itself might not get more updates, you'd still be getting new assets if you prefer to stay with it.

I do hope MZ won't have the same problem as MV. Read: the updates are so massive/different older plugins break/stop working.
It probably will. It's like any software release - they can only test so much and for so long before they believe they've got most of the bugs out. But it's only after release, when there's a much more massive user base, who are trying all sorts of weird and wonderful things, that some issues will come out. Just like a game you make - the more people who play it, the more obscure and hidden bugs will surface. I expect there will be issues, and there will need to be several revisions, which unfortunately will require some plugins to have multiple updates as well. Hopefully they're quick ones though.
 

BCj

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sadly this isn't something you can hope to happen every line of code that is changed to the corescript will break any plugin that depends on those said function who got changed.

this is just something you can't just hope that it does. Vx ace didn't got updated much at all even for various bug that would break our game. MV they get fixed WAY more actively since all the corescript is accessible.

tbh they did said an option who say : Update corescript. So they improved the game engine updater so you not forced to jump to the latest corescript version.

but yeah sadly I prefer having Update who fix many problem than having no update and a engine who is buggy and will crash on me. Reading version is the most basic thing to do in Game dev.
Out of curiosity, what bugs are you talking about for VX ACe? I haven't found any from the core engine.
 

Aerosys

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I wonder...

Is there a possibility the RPG Maker MV Tools - Database ConVerter MV will get updated to allow us to export MV database files into MZ maybe?

Not really looking or an official answer or anything, just speculating out loud. :kaopride:
You want to convert from MV to MZ? As both consists of JSON files, I expect it to be very easy to achieve. So if the team of the original tool won't do it, then the community will. I won't upgrade my game to MZ by hand, I will automate everything I can ;)
 

Shaz

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You want to convert from MV to MZ?
I don't think the database converter tool is an actual converter between RPG Maker versions. I think it allows you to do move your database between the engine and Excel, or something like that.

However, I've already said, if there isn't a converter provided when MZ is released, I will attempt to make one, like I did with MV. At least this time nobody will have to worry about updating images :)
 

Dalph

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Hoping for such massive and constant backwards compatibility with plugins is just a dream, Ace might even have it but it's much more limited than MV in many ways (imagine compared to MZ) and was updated less times too.
If I'm not mistaken a lot of fixes for Ace were added through external scripts.
 

Jitsu

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I hope so for a good working Android export with a Android test function.. this would solved the problem with the plugin compatibility.. Plugin coder would see when a plugin dont work in the Android version.
Would like too see small RPG-Maker games on Android. But with MV its terrible to Export and test the games..

Hope really this Funktion is not the same like in MV.. this would be a shame :/ so much potential.
 

Kes

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Out of curiosity, what bugs are you talking about for VX ACe? I haven't found any from the core engine.
Here are a few which needed external scripts to fix them because the core engine was not updated.
Star passability bug
Turn count for skills (things happening one turn late)
selection by enemies for actions on their own allies
No core script way of removing debuffs, only buffs.
F12 bug

There were others, but I don't recall them atm.
 
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