RPG Maker MZ, Preview #2: Graphics, Mapping, Eventing!

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Tamina

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Honestly, I think you were much more on the money with "horror games are easier to make because you don't need to understand how to do RPG balance".

You may LIKE the cliches of horror games more, but honestly, most horror storylines are just as trite as most RPG storylines.

I don't like playing horror games at all, it gives me too much stress. I'm only discussing from technical point of view when it comes to narratives. This has nothing to do with originality.

When it comes to building emotions. horror games tend to succeed much faster than other story genre. A creepy music and visual will make me scared really, really quick. Implement that to a story and Id be reading a story with emotions that creators try to accomplish.

Try to accomplish same level of emotions in other genre it's much harder. Let's say, what can we do to create an epic fantasy that feels "epic"? Tons of characters, locations, each with believable writings. That's whole lot harder and more work than just rely on visuals and sound effects.

What about a story with bittersweet feelings? Thats generally accomplished after tons of smaller events leading to the climax. That's still quite a bit of writings skill required.

A humorous/comedy story is another genre that tend to succeed much faster. That's why games like undertale draws people in after 5 min of introduction screen with flowey.

For indie games that don't have the resources to be a long epic story, it's much easier to write a successful horror or comedy story, it's so much harder to write a successful epic/realstic/political/serious story.

This has nothing to do with originality. In today's entertainment industry very few stories are completely original regardless of genre. What it matters is presentation: whether the story is successful at achieving the result that creators want. Certain story genre is just easier.
 
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Tamina

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Nothing wrong with the traditional jrpg plot of the teenager hero saving the world (If it's done well).
I can list at least 100 succesful jrpgs and anime about teenagers saving the world.
Many people claim it's cliche and they don't like it but ultimately they will play it or watch it anyway, it's still the basic setup of most stories in jrpgs and anime.
Most stuff I know follow this plot as a base, and I played quite a lot of games and watched a lot of stuff, in truth it's a matter of how you build and expand the plot from that base.

Even Undertale is give or take about saving the (monster) world from Asriel/Flowey and yet it's a rather unique and very succesful game.
Here is the thing: those successful jrpgs 1) are long enough to have enough content to build up the "epic" feels. This is very hard to accomplish if your indie game only last for 3-5hr.

2) these JRPGs hire professional writers who've been writing anime for years.

Indie games often lack resources for both, trying to accomplish what AAA jrpg does with 1 man team hobbyist writer is much harder. It's easy to underestimate the skill and resources required for a good writing.

A horror story can somehow avoid needing very good writing and rely on atmosphere/visual/music to accomplish good results. Nor they need tons of locations and character to accomplish the "horror" feel.

I mentioned undertale in the last post, its comedy genre with slight horror elements in it, comedy is another genre that easily gets good fast result than traditional shonen manga story. That's why some of the successful indie games(undertale/Lisa) are inspired by earthbound.
 

Knightmare

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I really enjoy most horror games, even the Maker ones. I liked "Camp Sunshine" which was what I would call "popcorn horror." It wasn't extravagant but it was a nice short game with a decent story, it mixed in some of the "run and hide" elements that great franchises like "Clock Tower" implemented. I recommend checking it out. There was another one I can't remember the name of that was awesome but it involved playing a little girl and you had to escape from your father and you find out he was doing wicked experiments, I wish I knew what it was called.

I was working on one called "Dark Grind" which was inspired from Koudelka (high five if you know the game) and the "Saw" movie franchise. Koudelka did survival horror RPG better than any other game claiming that genre imo. The "Saw" movies speak for themselves as far as the psychological horror mystery aspect and I tried/trying to smash the 2 together and make it work. It has a deep and dark story and a lot of character customization. It's a good mix of horror and deep sandbox RPG. I'll eventually get it done and in fact that may be the first project I start (or re-start) I would be elated if we saw more horror games get inspiration from Koudelka and the like instead of just being games where you walk around with a flashlight and hear noises.

Anyway I would totally be down with more support and materials for horror RPG's.
 

JosephSeraph

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Now try to tell a story about the protagonist trapped in a haunted house, dealing with his dark past and attempt to solve mysteries, suddenly we all want to know what's next.
there, fixed it.

yume nikki was also pretty good
Yume Nikki is a case of horror more as an aesthetic and thematic choice than as a game genre.

It's easy to be shocking or "intriguing" when you tactclessly splurge r*pe as a "deep" narrative element with a teenage girl protagonist in a spooky house. It's also just as easy to be extremely offputting or problematic.

Also yeah, most of the plugins cited aren't "horror" plugins but just useful plugins overall. Acoustic emission? Cool, great for your atmospheric, relaxing dungeon with an underwater river.
Line of sight? Very useful in a lot of games. Grab and throw? Probably more commonly used in zelda and lufia clones than in horror games, given that the latter's most complex mechanics when made in RPG Maker tend to be finding keys..................
 

nio kasgami

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It's because Horror game share from MANY aspect of many game.
Osore engine is mainly the engine I will dev for my game. I share the engine to the public use and 'tag' it as an Horror game toolset. Simply because it's what my engine was designed to do for. Horror game.

Also You misread acoustic emission it's not related to music. It's related to Data transfers by Raycasting information toward another collider at a certain distance then trigger an events.

It's similar to a line of sight based on 'sound'.

So anyway if I decide to market it as a horror game toolset engine I can do it lol
 

Htlaets

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I'm personally not all that interested in horror RPGs in general (though thematic horror can be good), but thinking about it a lot of the most famous RPG maker games are horror games.

Top of my head you have corpse party, Yume Nikki, Angels of Death. Two of those had animes. I've played none of them but there's obviously something about them.

Anyway, plug-ins related to horror games would also be useful for making puzzles and dungeon mechanics, so definitely all for that.
 

Anyone

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comming from game deving games in other software it come a lots to other options actually.

Such as Raycasting (line of sight)
Fear system , Chase system , Puzzle handling system (grab and throw etc)

Ambience systems. Behaviours reaction from entity (events , players) light system who handle raycasting by geometry)

there's a LOTS of system involved into the horror genre. If you want to do a very shallow game sure the event you how there can be enough.

but when you come to want to make stuff more dynamic it's more complicated than you think.


those are the current modules I wrote down.

Awake is the most basic whihc include the barebone of how an interactive environment should be.
Sounds like a lot of that would also be very useful to have in non-horror games?

I think your engine plugins would end up being quite popular if they don't focus primarily on horror, but also functionality beyond that.

Take the fear system. It's basically there to handle a specific custom variable (in this case fear) display it somewhere (map or menu) in some fashion (direct number, descriptor, variable image) and have plugin commands that can call an effect based on the relevant variable.
(e.g. Plugin Command:
"CustomVariableName EffectName args[0] args[1] etc."
"Fear Horrify 90"
calls from a custom struct array either a custom made effect (in js) or a linked common event via the struct array.
So in struct, you could have...
CustomVariableName[]
- Effects[]
-- Called Effect (string for js premades)
-- Call Common Event Instead yes\no
-- Common Events[] (struct array, allows you to make a list of common events)
--- Common Event
--- Linked Variable Number (the linked value for the custom variable)
--- Greater|GreaterEqual|Equal|SmallerEqual|Smaller -List- (determines what the custom variablehas to be in relation to the linked variable number to decide if this common event gets triggered)
)

If you gear your plugins to be flexible so they can be used for multiple other purposes, then you're gonna leave a lot of room for people to come up with their own ideas.

Especially a powerful lighting system that can handle maplighting, tilelighting and eventlighting would be immensly useful to cover for the lack of Terrax Lighting and Khas Lighting, etc.

As for sounds, Ocram did a pretty great sound plugin for MV that recently got the ability to do event-based SFX (meaning the audio effect is louder or muted depending on how far away you are from the event) and I think having something like that would be very helpful in a horror game. (E.g. the character only has a small light source that shows part of the screen, and the enemy's will primarily be heard - and you have to judge how far away they are based on the sound and avoid them, because seeing them causes a panic)
 

M.I.A.

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Am I the only one who doesn't mind teenage protagonists?
I don't mind. I guess. I mean, I don't really think of my protagonists as having an age.. so.. *shrugs*

-MIA
 
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Likely no. Plugins definitely not, it's been said several times that MV plugins won't be compatible with MZ (which makes sense, the only way it could be compatible would be for the API between MV and MZ to be exactly the same.. which defeats the purpose of making a new engine or even and update to an engine).
 

Dalph

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@Tamina
Ok about the writing part, but you don't necessarily need length to build epicness, it's about depth.
Look at movies, they last 2 hours at most (usually) and I can list a lot of epic ones that are about saving the world.
 

TWings

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Considering parts of MV and MZ are clearly not compatible (plugins, animations, possibly script calls ? and more we have yet to hear about ?),
if such a converter were to be made, I'm guessing it would be a partial convertion at best.
While it may be an option for small and simple projects,
I get the feeling it would mean way too much additional work for any big project.
 

nio kasgami

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Lol I see many people just write billions lines of stuff to tell me how i should handle the plugin.


I will stop there. Osore is mainly an inbuilt engine for my own game so I design mainly for my own use. And i publish it so it people wants they can use it lol. I dont really care if its popular or bot?
 

Rukiri

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Can tile size be changed? I'd prefer 32x32 over 48x48...

Also would love to use the script box to reference npc variables and change basic x/y locations without having to rewrite a whole function... especially for just checking if the hero touched the npc from a diagonal angle. Basically each side checks for diagonal left/center/right and vice versa for up/down. Math is easy, but didn't like writing entire functions for 1 npc... and yes I am aware of the vector math involved.
 

Dalph

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Lol I see many people just write billions lines of stuff to tell me how i should handle the plugin.


I will stop there. Osore is mainly an inbuilt engine for my own game so I design mainly for my own use. And i publish it so it people wants they can use it lol. I dont really care if its popular or bot?
watch-out-diva-coming-through.jpg
 

nio kasgami

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I dont think its help in the conversation dalph but ok.
 

Dalph

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I dont think its help in the conversation dalph but ok.
Oh my posts never particularly help but I have to contribute in keeping the fun and funny factor high enough in the threads where I'm in, or else we pixel-artists all fall asleep here if this devolves into coding talk only. Understand?
 
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