RPG Maker MZ, Preview #2: Graphics, Mapping, Eventing!

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Tamina

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I'll agree that in this context, the scene's dimensions don't matter, I just wanted to show it as an example of what people are capable of doing as indie, and how it can be applicable/expanded.
I am aware that 3D can be used in indie game. There plenty made in different engines such as unity. I don't think its the only reason why some scene looks good unless the genre greatly benefits from 3D presentation.

The reason why that LoTR scene looks so good is more than just 3D and CG. It's a scene that cost millions to create. Every model, every animation, took an entire team of artists to make sure it comes out as realistic and believable. It's not the 3D creating visual impacts, it's time and money.

Skill is a huge blanket term, which is why I said it. Skill can be animation, drawing, coding, level design, sound design/engineering, making intelligent use of plugins that exist, etc. Skill doesn't just mean "just use RTP and RPG Maker as minimally as you can", I think the aim is not to create things with just the RTP though if you're truly intending to go for a "feeling", especially if you want it to stand out amongst the crowd commercially. Unfortunately, cookiecutter RTP games(of any genre) do happen a lot and that does tarnish those with the skill to make RTP look good.
Yes, that's what I meant by "skills" to begin with. Good presentation needs more than skills, but time/money.

It's possible to create custom art with skills, but they take time. If you spend 20 hr creating a professional illustration, even if you have the skill to do so they cost $0, the real value of such illustration is actually $400 if your hourly rate is $20.

If a game has 20 pieces of illustration then then actual cost to create them would be $8000, even if the creator created them all by themselves.

I'm a professional illustrator with studio experience, even then I don't spend 1000 hours of my time creating tons of commercial quality art for my project even with the skills to do so, unless I feel the project will have enough commercial success to make 1000 hr of investment worthwhile. Now if I have an investor to sponsor me for the cost Id be happy to spend 1000 hr of my time creating art, or hire someone else to do it. As an indie dev there are some things that we can't do, due to the lack of time/money.

Maybe for you. An individual scene is not enough for me. If the story is crap, I'm not gonna enjoy it as much.
If a horror story has poor structure but good atmosphere, I'd at least look at it for a few more seconds, or even give it a chance. If a traditional shonen jrpg has poor structure and lacks quality presentation, I'd just skip it without ever giving it a chance.

I'll be honest, I don't get the whole "RM can create horror atmosphere easier" cause I cannot for the life of me take 2D horror games seriously as "scary" at all.

Horror games only got good as actual HORROR games when graphics starting getting good enough for strong immersion.

Usually horror games from before then were horror THEMED games, but not actually horror games.
Maybe my threshold for "horror" is lower since I got scared easily. For example I actually find Undertale scary because of the overall atmosphere and graphic presentation. but not all the player find Undertale scary.

I don't believe RM can do the horror atmosphere easier either, but I do believe they can give one a chilling experience. It all comes down to the writing.

For example, though it isn't anywhere near an RM game, 999 writes certain scenes with such gory and detailed descriptions that, even without an accompanying image, the player can't help but squirm due to being forced to visualize it themselves. This makes it worse than seeing it, and 999 isn't even a horror title!

It's not that RM "do easier" with horror since RM engine itself doesn't notice bonus points to horror, but more like RM game or indie game with limited resources can accomplish more using this formula with less resources. So they don't have to deal with showing their weakness to the players.
 
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The Stranger

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@Touchfuzzy I 100% agree. An RM horror game can use as many black overlays as it wants, obscure as much as it can, and contain enough story to fill the void between the earth and the sun, but I've yet to find anything truly horrifying or even remotely unnerving about them.

Horror novels can be scary because our minds conjure up the sights, the sounds, and the scents. Games take some of that creativity away from us. I'll use the chosen art style to fill in any blanks in imagery the dev may have left out, so all of those gore filled, disturbing, and violent scenes the dev has tried so hard to describe lost a lot of their impact on me because all I see are desaturated anime characters doing these things, and I just don't find that horrifying in the slightest.

You can tell dark stories in RPG Maker, but dark and twisted isn't really the same thing as horror. To be honest, I only find certain types of horror actually scary though. Most horror games don't unnerve or horrify me, though some of the first person perspective horror games do evoke more unsettling thoughts and feelings. A lot of this is down to the individual, though. Someone absolutely terrified of spiders might find the battle with Shelob unwatchable, and see that old horror-comedy, Arachnohobia, as nightmare fuel.

I still wouldn't mind playing an RPG Maker version of Hellraiser though. Hellraiser the RPG has so much potential. :p
 

Sharm

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This horror argument is so bizarre. What does it matter if it's easier to be moody than epic or not? We're all here to make something that we love, not because we think it's going to be the easiest or most popular thing to make. What would proving one is better than the other mean for anyone, even if you could prove something like that? Is the argument trying to get Nio to change his focus based on which one would be more useful to others? I really don't understand the point of it all.
 

Touchfuzzy

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This horror argument is so bizarre. What does it matter if it's easier to be moody than epic or not? We're all here to make something that we love, not because we think it's going to be the easiest or most popular thing to make. What would proving one is better than the other mean for anyone, even if you could prove something like that? Is the argument trying to get Nio to change his focus based on which one would be more useful to others? I really don't understand the point of it all.
I don't think there is a point to be honest. I was mostly just responding because I said I don't personally get the trend of RM horror games.

More power to people who like them and want to make them, I just have never understood it at all.
 

Sharm

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I think it's an age thing. Horror tends to be more interesting to the age range that RM best caters to, the late teen-early adult age where exploring the things you were shielded from as a kid is extra fun. To older people like us, the true horrors of the world make the fake horrors found in games seem trite. But then again, I've always hated every genre of horror except for the old fashioned psychological horror, so I'm biased against it.
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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This horror argument is so bizarre. What does it matter if it's easier to be moody than epic or not? We're all here to make something that we love, not because we think it's going to be the easiest or most popular thing to make. What would proving one is better than the other mean for anyone, even if you could prove something like that? Is the argument trying to get Nio to change his focus based on which one would be more useful to others? I really don't understand the point of it all.
It's just a conversation topic. It has nothing to do with Nio's plans.
 

Sharm

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It just seemed like a lot of the responses were trying to prove something, and I can't figure out why. It's a really strong response I'd expect from someone who felt personally insulted, not someone trying to explain why there's a large number of RM horror games. Bringing up Nio's project was just throwing out an idea of what it could be, not because that I really think that's the point of it.
 

Sharm

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Woah, the city overworld tiles are crazy! It reminds me of Sim City. It looks like the overworld tiles are going to have more to them this time around.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Woah, the city overworld tiles are crazy! It reminds me of Sim City. It looks like the overworld tiles are going to have more to them this time around.
My brain jumped immediately to Phantasy Star II, but Sim City is also a good comparison.
 

Candacis

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The mapping is nicely done, I like the look of it. Very colorful.
But I can't help notice that there are several different styles inside the rtp clashing with each other. The plant next to the vending machine one of the more obvious ones.
 

Tamina

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This horror argument is so bizarre. What does it matter if it's easier to be moody than epic or not? We're all here to make something that we love, not because we think it's going to be the easiest or most popular thing to make. What would proving one is better than the other mean for anyone, even if you could prove something like that? Is the argument trying to get Nio to change his focus based on which one would be more useful to others? I really don't understand the point of it all.
I agree, but this discussion was brought up because some people couldn't get "why" the trend exist. So it's meant to analyze "why this happened" rather than "you all should be doing this".

There TONS of traditional shonen manga theme jrpg being made all the time, not just horror. But some of the more successful RM projects in the past, especially in Japan community, often were horror/dark/mysteries genre. I feel this could have something to do with horror/dark style gets noticed more easily by the audiences, but traditional jrpg has to compete with AAA jrpg from bigger companies.

Edit: and NSFW games too. AAA game company doesn't make these so indie game has an edge for that genre too.
 
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MikePjr

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I'm honestly getting more curious to see what's new in the database now, as well as what might be new for eventing.
 

Shaz

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Weird ... I came looking for the MZ discussion thread, but I can only see a horror game thread!

@Touchfuzzy does the Effekseer integration allow an animation to play with some of the particles in front of the player and some behind?
 

JosephSeraph

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we pixel-artists all fall asleep here if this devolves into coding talk only
hey!!! I'm a pixel artist and the coding talk keeps me glued to the screen more than anything else :D

edit:
Version 2 can look slightly better with more custom arts, but it wouldn't convey the same feels even if it's done really well.
Version 2 can look immensely better with very little work by changing the narrative style from on map to illustrated panels and text, really. You need to draw the panels, of course, but to draw good panels that drive a narrative well all you need is good composition and intention, not great technique and days' worth of render time.

edit2:
Dark-Seed-2-4-e1561392967438.png



It's hard to figure out how the same scene could have been solved in plain 2d... but the fact is horror games turned 3d long before fantasy games did, in the need of a more personal perspective.
I mean... This is a mix of 2D and photobashing (which isn't 3D). The only reason I'm pointing this out is that this style is really accessible to make in RPG Maker and i"d love to see more people tackle it!

edit3:
The reason why that LoTR scene looks so good is more than just 3D and CG. It's a scene that cost millions to create. Every model, every animation, took an entire team of artists to make sure it comes out as realistic and believable. It's not the 3D creating visual impacts, it's time and money.
I disagree. 80% of what makes a good scene is direction, deliberation, writing. the other 20% is where the budget comes in. (deliberation also includes planning your scenes to make good use of the allocated resources)

edit4:
It just seemed like a lot of the responses were trying to prove something, and I can't figure out why.
i don't know why i'm alive and that reflects itself in my pointless comments
 
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MikePjr

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Wait.. they didn't think to add the option for animations to play behind things?
*goes cross eyed*


I kid.. i kid.
But i hope someone can get on this soon.
I can think of a few use case scenarios.
 
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