RPG Maker MZ, Preview #2: Graphics, Mapping, Eventing!

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JosephSeraph

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Plays in front of the player. I'd be curious if someone could write a plugin that changed that though.
Hmmm....
Particles exist in a 3D space and there's options to, within Elfkisser, determine visual sorting (even ignoring the fact that they inherently have Z coordinates.
I think this visual sorting is not only relevant to the particle itself but also to the environment it spawns in, for instance in a 3D game engine

The fact they play in front of the target probably means that either they are hardcoded to all play in a separate layer from the actors / enemies, or that merely the built in animations make no use of the Z-sorting functionality.

1594166910520.png

By changing the Z-offset, if the latter option is true, you could have some particles display behind the target. I think that probably won't work though and it'll take some javascript magic to get it to that place :p

See, that's why pixel artists should like programming talk! XD
 

Shaz

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or that merely the built in animations make no use of the Z-sorting functionality.
I believe it is this.

I haven't looked at the animations in MV, but if they're anything like the rending of the map or characters, they are all sprites that get added to a parent sprite/layer, that get added to a container for the scene. So their z-index depends entirely on the order in which they're added, and what other things are in other containers in the same scene. To make the particles cater for the z-index, you'd have to change the battler sprites to be drawn or allocated to layers differently.

Would be good though. And especially if @nio kasgami does it, so I don't have to hurt my brain trying to figure it out!
 

TWings

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Plays in front of the player. I'd be curious if someone could write a plugin that changed that though.
Wait, what ? Does this mean that whatever we do, the animations are still played as 2D animations like in MV ?
We can't have say a casting animation surrounding the caster ?
That kinda defeat the purpose of using 3D animations.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Wait, what ? Does this mean that whatever we do, the animations are still played as 2D animations like in MV ?
We can't have say a casting animation surrounding the caster ?
That kinda defeat the purpose of using 3D animations.
I mean it still allows much higher quality at much lower file sizes. And it still allows you to rotate the animation in the editor, which is an advantage of 3D animations.

I wouldn't say it defeats the purpose of using 3D animations, but it is something that could be improved.
 

ImaginaryVillain

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@Shaz @nio kasgami
Both...
https://triacontane.blogspot.com/2016/01/rpgmv-9-github-download-mit18.html
...allow you to place MV's animations below the player. Perhaps check those out and see how they did it?

Also in a round about way QSprite will let you place animations below the player. Though it doesn't use MV's animations system, so it might not be as interesting here.
 

JosephSeraph

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That kinda defeat the purpose of using 3D animations.
That's definitely everything BUT the purpose! Not to mention, they're only incidentally 3D. They might as well have been 2D and it still would have been an insane improvement.

Ditching Cells for Nodes is an insane improvement and makes our possibilities within RPG Maker soooo much broader.


ut if they're anything like the rending of the map or characters, they are all sprites that get added to a parent sprite/layer, that get added to a container for the scene.
Yeah! That's what I think is likely. So it's either that or just that the default animations make no use of Depth sorting. Either way the cool thing is that the info exists! So even if RPG Maker MZ can't handle this by default there's a way for programmers to fetch that data.

Also, the thing I'm looking forward the most about animations is imo, something i've been whining about like crazy for weeks, is a scaling shader for the battle animations. Specifically a way for us to render the animations at 100% then have a shader scale that to 200% or 300% nearest neighbor so we can avoid half-pixels when doing fake lowrez.

1594170366552.png
 

Shaz

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That kinda defeat the purpose of using 3D animations.
That's kind of expected, because it's still a 2D game engine. But it's still much more flexible/powerful than the previous RPG Maker animation systems.

I don't want to go hunting through 28 pages for the screenshots ... was there a note box in the Animations tab this time around? I'm pretty sure there isn't in Ace or MV.
 

Veno

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I'd have to say that regardless of the 3d/2d appearance of the animations, given the new tool we have to create them, no longer will people be locked to the same default animations to Franken-edit into something custom. Soon there will be a treasure trove of animations across the net even moreso than tiles and character sheets, moreso than most other assets. I think people are still vastly under estimating the true power of this animation editor.

I'm not just talking battle stuff, I'm talking on map cutscenes and gameplay. Think of laser beams that look real, Particle engines thrusting space ships across the emptyness, campfires that actually look real and not some 3frame looping nonsense, giant lakes and forest that come to life with slow over-time repeating animations. You could loop an animation or two on a map without causing lag and bring some spectacular enhancing map effects into the equation. Imagine having a buff and having a parallel process play a cool animation effect on the player when out of battle showing the buff, with the speed and power of animations they won't lag easily when overused like in MV.

Just wait. Pretty shiney things are coming.
 

nio kasgami

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@JosephSeraph @Shaz

Yep resorting sprite / in mv is just a matter of swapping the array. Theres although an pretty nice plugin for pixis who made sorting wayyy easier

EDIT : actually PIXIJS v5 now use Built-in Zindex in their container.
 

TWings

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That's kind of expected, because it's still a 2D game engine. But it's still much more flexible/powerful than the previous RPG Maker animation systems.

I don't want to go hunting through 28 pages for the screenshots ... was there a note box in the Animations tab this time around? I'm pretty sure there isn't in Ace or MV.
I'm not saying it's not better, but it does feel like a missed opportunity.

I haven't looked into the Effekseer plugin they're using, but my guess is that would be the place to start.
Somehow the animation needs to understand the sprite it's supposed to work with to display properly the particles around it.
 

JosephSeraph

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was there a note box in the Animations tab this time around?
Not anywhere we've seen. There might be in the Flash/Sound options (would be amazing) but I highly doubt it.

but my guess is that would be the place to start
So, like I mentioned, Elfkisser has Z-Sorting for particles. And even if it didn't have, since the particles exist in 3D space that information sort of already exists, unlike for MV and below.
nio explained how that could be used within MZ if it isn't by default. Doesn't seem difficult
 

Shaz

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Not anywhere we've seen
That's a pity - it could have been used to give some additional information for a plugin to add a more 3D effect (behind/in front, etc)
 

TWings

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So, like I mentioned, Elfkisser has Z-Sorting for particles. And even if it didn't have, since the particles exist in 3D space that information sort of already exists, unlike for MV and below.
nio explained how that could be used within MZ if it isn't by default. Doesn't seem difficult
What I meant here is, depending how it has been coded in MZ, it might be better for performances to completely (or at least mostly) ignore MZ and use directly the Effekseer library to play animations, assuming it contains a built-in ability to work with foreign objects.
 

Tsukimi-neko

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So, like I mentioned, Elfkisser has Z-Sorting for particles. And even if it didn't have, since the particles exist in 3D space that information sort of already exists, unlike for MV and below.
nio explained how that could be used within MZ if it isn't by default. Doesn't seem difficult
3D animation may be easy or difficult, depends on which option one wants to take:
① Z-sorting: render the 3D animation alone, and sort the result with other sprites
② True 3D: render interactively with other sprites; that is, when a particle has some part at front and some part at back, it should configure the visibility properly at each parts
(think of a force field effect on a character, or a laser beam piercing through a character)

② is more difficult than ① and may have performance issues for an 2D renderer, though the result is really beautiful. I want ②!
 
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JosephSeraph

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the thing i want about is an upscaler nearest neighbour plugin.
 

nio kasgami

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@JosephSeraph the zdepth of Effekser is unrelated to PIXIJs

it's not based on RM it's based on PIXIJS ZDepth.
The way it work is child based but it should be working with Z value now that Pixijs 5 officially works with it.
 

SJWebster

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You can scale animations in MV by right clicking the cell or going to the Batch menu and typing in, say, 300% but it's not Nearest Neighbour. The results are incredibly soft and blurry.
 

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The tileset looks nice overall and so do the 3 maps, there's some clashing and off parts here and there but nothing that can't be fixed with a little editing and tweaking.
I also don't like the interior walls (upper part) without black in the middle, but that's just a personal preference, if there's a texture there they never strike me as real interiors.
The upper wall tiles should look like this:
IMG_20200708_100216.png
I always have the impression of the characters being outside if the top interior walls are not black.
 

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I'm wondering how powerful MZ will be compared to MV. So like (for example) a MV-Game would lagg at ~70 Events that will do something at the same time, a MZ-Game would lagg at ~90 Events.

This would be interesting for me. ^^


And is the Android-Export better / would it be better compatible? Would be great if there are some improvements too, so you can really make some good Android-Games.


I'm looking forward to the improvements for Eventing. Hope to see more stuff. :)



PS: Sorry for my bad english.
I'm a little bit wowed, but it's enough so I will buy MZ. :)
 
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