RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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DoubleX

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Has it actually been said that this is possible? With MV, if two plugin creators used the same plugin command, the one that was lowest in the list had a good chance of picking it up. Unless something special has been done with MZ to qualify it with the plugin name (and I haven't read anything indicating that's the case), then the issue will still occur.

Does it happen much though?
Actually I don't know if MZ does does that, but I'd hope so, considering that the new plugin command already groups plugin commands by plugin names(it seems to me that you pick the plugin first before picking its command there), meaning that the new plugin command should know which plugin makes which command.
Also, plugin command name collisions are indeed rare in MV if most of those commands are well-named(whereas poorly named ones like "run" can be another story entirely), but I'd still just want to play safe, so in MV I always try to name the command to indicate that it's from my plugin without making the name too long or counterintuitive(like "setSATBActTimes" where "SATB" is the plugin identifier that are unlikely to have name collisions) :)
 

Shaz

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Yeah, I'm guessing there will be comments a plugin creator can put in the heading, similar to what's done now for parameters, that will provide the list of commands and arguments available for that plugin. But that affects the editor, not the scripts when running the game. The way the parameters are defined doesn't remove the need for the plugin itself to parse the settings, so I really don't expect something quite as sophisticated as that. I think we'll just have to be careful about naming them. At least it doesn't take much to go in and alter the plugin command name if there is a double up, but for non-coders, it would take someone to guide them.

@Shaz You mean like this?
No, I mean like this - the screenshot in the first post of this thread:

It may not seem like a big deal, just to skip a couple of mouse clicks, but I often help people troubleshoot their projects, and when all else fails, we resort to "send me your project" and one of the most annoying things is that I have to go through their list of 50-100 plugins (because apparently people need that many when they start a new game) and turn them all off in one big hit.
 
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nio kasgami

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Yeah, I'm guessing there will be comments a plugin creator can put in the heading, similar to what's done now for parameters, that will provide the list of commands and arguments available for that plugin. But that affects the editor, not the scripts when running the game. The way the parameters are defined doesn't remove the need for the plugin itself to parse the settings, so I really don't expect something quite as sophisticated as that. I think we'll just have to be careful about naming them. At least it doesn't take much to go in and alter the plugin command name if there is a double up, but for non-coders, it would take someone to guide them.



No, I mean like this - the screenshot in the first post of this thread:



It may not seem like a big deal, just to skip a couple of mouse clicks, but I often help people troubleshoot their projects, and when all else fails, we resort to "send me your project" and one of the most annoying things is that I have to go through their list of 50-100 plugins (because apparently people need that many when they start a new game) and turn them all off in one big hit.

tbh my guess is that PluginCommands are now Embedded into the PluginFile Object and to access the parameters we would do :

Code:
var getGold = PluginManager.Commands("CommandName");
of course it could be that the GameInterpreter command would return as it's args the command name and the parameters.
which would make senses

then you do :
Json.Parse(GetGold);

why I go with this guess?
They now work with the same 'technology' than the PluginParameters so being Object based as Json String would make the most senses. So using the same concept for fetchs parameters would be IMO the most intuitive way.
 

Shaz

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The plugin parameters are saved in the plugin file, because they are set once per game. But plugin commands can change every time they are run. I do not expect they would be in the plugin file, but rather in the map files as event commands, just as they are in MV. I expect rather than passing in an entire string, it'll just be an array, like the interpreter does with args for every other command. My guess is that the big change here is how it appears in the editor, not how it's handled in the scripts.
 

nio kasgami

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I do see your point I just still think it will print an 'JSON' like type of args like they did for parameters (in the end they are just Object who are stringify) I doubt they would just give us string that we have to regexp with the new struct. it would be counter intuitive and just plain nightmare to regexp.

Code:
// ["commandName","args: { StructLikePluginParam: 10}" } ]
that's just an basic concept I don't recall 100% how plugin Parameters works but it could technically work like that so in the fetching we would get on the first index the pluginName which allow us to 'filter'
like if(this._param[0] === "commandName");

then we take the second index and just JsonParse it to get the parameters.

Let's remember PluginCommand are not dynamic function. They are just plain 'copy' paste Struct.
Their structure doesn't change it's stay static to the PluginCommand from the plugin. Just their value in the struct change. So doing the way I showed is douable and is actually very optimal.
 

Shaz

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It could be, and I'll be very happy if it is :)
 

MikePjr

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I was trying to go with a more RED red hair for a character once and it drove me nuts.
 

DoubleX

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It may not seem like a big deal, just to skip a couple of mouse clicks, but I often help people troubleshoot their projects, and when all else fails, we resort to "send me your project" and one of the most annoying things is that I have to go through their list of 50-100 plugins (because apparently people need that many when they start a new game) and turn them all off in one big hit.
To me, another value of this new MZ functionality is that it's now very explicit that one can simply toggle a plugin in the list, whereas in MV you'll have to know that this can be done by right-clicking.
Maybe I'm too dumb, but I actually just know that MV can do that by reading this thread, so I like this new MZ functionality :)
 

Touchfuzzy

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To me, another value of this new MZ functionality is that it's now very explicit that one can simply toggle a plugin in the list, whereas in MV you'll have to know that this can be done by right-clicking.
Maybe I'm too dumb, but I actually just know that MV can do that by reading this thread, so I like this new MZ functionality :)
We can be dumb together.
 

Probotector 200X

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I was hoping for several Generator screenshots, but that bonus screenshot (Wendy) is plenty for now. I assume MZ will have more parts by default than MV (although MV added some in an update, and there were 2 free sets of parts later if I recall correctly)

I'm more of an artist than any other role in game design, but I've always loved the "RTP", including the three Playstation 'makers, and the generator is fun to use. Making art is time-consuming, and I'm not really that good (I tried using my own custom art once and it just looked bad in the maker)

Also, when using RPG Maker, I try to do things I like and don't do things I don't like. I like when games have multiple outfits for characters, and the generator makes that really easy. My "main" MZ project idea is already planning for the main character to have several different outfits, some as disguises! (because that's fun too!)
 

ICF-Soft

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I like the new plugin command functionality. Will command parameters need to be parsed like plugin parameters, or will be saved as the right types?

Also I still think that toolbar buttons for map layers are necesary.
 

Dungeonmind

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You can also just use the space bar to turn on/off the highlighted plugin from the plugin manager rather than clicking on the box.
Well that will certainly save me lots of time. Thanks for clarifying and explaining more to me.
 

Tamina

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maybe many don't use it because it doesn't have enough parts. and maybe there would be more parts if the structure were different? I have often heard from people that they create resources they no longer make parts for the generator because of the complicated structure ..

Edit: the generator is part of the engine and has his own Button.. not just a Bonus. Holy HIS OWN BUTTON!!!

Hm Okay. Lets Talk a little about the Testplay Function and the Android Export. Have no much hope for it.. its the same too? Or can the engine Test Android Games and export to .apk?
I believe it's more than generators parts/variety.

I'm never a fan of generator because all the faces created by generators don't tilt. Which is extremely unnatural when they have different emotions/personalities, or being displayed side by side like battle status. Normally we should be seeing human head tilt slightly up/down/left/right based on their fact expressions/personalities.

Looking at games using faces from generators tend to give me a creepy feel similar to uncanny valley. I am very okay with games using RTP assets, but face generator It's one default RTP feature I absolutely hate the most. If dev can't afford custom faces for NPC, I'd rather see them don't add any faces.

An offset function/more generator parts will not fix this. This has more to do with the entire structure of the head.
 
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Jomarcenter

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*sees Plugin is getting more powerful*
1594392410750.png
 

MajinSonic

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The more I see... the more I guess it's more or less a "patch" for MV.
There is nothing that is so epic that I would buy MZ. Don't get me wrong. MZ will be a nice Maker and still nicer than MV is. MV is my favorite maker so far (except these dumb mapping system).

There are quality of life changes... yeah... they're nice. But that's all for me. LayerMapping is the best "new" feature so far :D I don't need checklists in plugin manager. I don't need the new plugin commands. But this is just my opinion :D It's perfectly fine for you to hype the MZ if you want it to.

I'm curious about "system2" and I can't wait to see the rewritten core.
 

Xelion

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No matter what they add though, someone will say "eh, I don't need that"/"that could be done with a plugin already"/"I now a third party program that already does that". They are pretending they literally scrap the entire idea of the RPG Maker series and do something completely new, for some reason. I mean, the same excuses could be used with literally any RPG Maker version, "hey, I could already do maps and events since RPG Maker 95, it just feels like an enhanced version of the latest".
God, we are annoying.
 

nio kasgami

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No matter what they add though, someone will say "eh, I don't need that"/"that could be done with a plugin already"/"I now a third party program that already does that". They are pretending they literally scrap the entire idea of the RPG Maker series and do something completely new, for some reason. I mean, the same excuses could be used with literally any RPG Maker version, "hey, I could already do maps and events since RPG Maker 95, it just feels like an enhanced version of the latest".
God, we are annoying.

Yep and those people doesnt realise they rewritten the whole goddamn engine. The whole corescript as well to a new version of framework...
But not they must be senior software enginer. We should let these people write the engine.

all sarcasm aside.

No this isn't just a 'patch' when you rewrite the whole engine from scratch to a new version. and as well the full corescript to be more performant.
Updating an engine cost a lots. fixing bug cost money. people have to realise that it's an one time purchase engine. At some point they will need to create a new RM to give them the budget or this would create a budget deficit to kadokawa.

as I said once in a comment : for a constant update engine to work you have either to offers it free but require royalties or have subscription based. which allow them to pay their workers to update the engine.

as you want to fix an engine at some points it doesn't worth the cost and it's better to start from scratch and starting from scratch to an existing engine will just cause angry people.

but what I know? those people must know more than me the guy who work in game dev for years , used software who cost you 300$ a month to use. but eh must not known I guess.
 
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The Stranger

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@Xelion No idea why we do it, we just do. lol. Maybe it's a weird form of brand loyalty, but only for specific versions of RPG Maker. We could also be attempting to suppress hype, or appear as if we just don't care. Who knows! Our name is legion, for we have many reasons and opinions. xD
 
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