RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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Kaliya

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@Kaliya my question is does the args are treated as String or literall native? (e.g number etc) so do we still need to 'parse' it like we do with the pluginManager?
They are treated as json strings so type conversion is still a must. The example I gave wouldn't actually work because ActorId's while it should be an array is passed to the function as a string, so it would need to be parsed first.
 

Winshifter

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Hello,

So, @Archeia has given me the go-a-head to explain properly how the new Plugin Commands work. So this is how they do the things.

To setup a plugin command, a lot of you have guessed that it would be defined in the help file of your plugin. Similar to plugin parameters, well you're right. This is the syntax for defining a plugin command to be displayed in the event editor:

JavaScript:
* @command PluginCommandFunctionName
* @text My Plugin Command
* @desc Plugin Command Description Text
*
* @arg Actors
* @text Which Actors?
* @type actor[]
* @desc Select which Actor ID(s) to affect.
* @default ["1"]
*
* @arg State
* @text State
* @type state
* @desc Which State to apply?
* @default 1
As you can see, it is very similar to the way plugin parameters were created in MV. The difference is the following:

@command - defines a new command, this is how the plugin manager knows what command you are referring to or needing to execute. This is a unique identifier per plugin.

@arg - defines a new command argument/option. This is the name of the property that is passed along when the command is executed.

The above example would net you the following outcome in the event editor:


Other than that, as you can see the defining of a plugin command is extremely similar to plugin parameters, you can even specify data types like you can for plugin parameters.

Now on to how a plugin developer would create the code for such a plugin command. Unlike in MV you no longer have to alias a function, parse a string for your argument, and all that awful stuff. In MZ it is quite as simple as registering a function call with the name of your plugin, and the name of the plugin command you defined. Like so:

JavaScript:
PluginManager.registerCommand("TestPlugin", "PluginCommandFunctionName", args => {
    // Get Arguments
    const actorIds = JSON.parse(args.Actors);
    const stateId = args.State;

    // Use the arguments
    for (const actorId of actorIds) {
        const actor = $gameParty.members().find(member => member.actorId() === Number(actorId));
        if (actor) {
            actor.addState(stateId);
        }
    }
});
What you are doing is registering with the plugin manager that "TestPlugin" has a plugin command called "PluginCommandFunctionName" along with the actual function itself as a lambda. The plugin manager then passes the arguments to that function with the variable "args" as an object containing the values the user selected.

and that is how you would create a new plugin command using the MZ system.

- Kaliya
Is this going to be documented somehow or should I basically copy this to a note pad and have it for further reference?
 

Kaliya

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I don't have an answer for you there, but I would imagine there would be some examples on release.
 

Musashi

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What does this mean for the average user: Everything will run more smoothly and with less hiccups..

What does that mean for plugin creators? Oh, we think they already know.

Well, this information means nothing for the average user. I remember that when MV was being announced they made a video with a map running with hundreds of events walking around, that's the kind of example that most people will understand. Until the experts start showing the new possibilities people will just not get it and you can't really blame them for that.

- MZ is sooo much better!
- How?
- You'll see...
- OK, but why is it better?
- Oh, plugin creators know it... technical stuff, you'll see ;)
- Any examples?
- Sooo much better...
- >_>

Anyway, those are all cool and welcomed changes to me =D I'm not really digging everything in the new RTP though, some things look incomplete and weird. That's the first time I don't like the RTP tree :razz:
 

Lucy Fox

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I always hear the argument the engine should stay beginner friendly... But why does that mean to renounce really useful stuff that isn't hard for anyone, no matter the skill level?

A good example for small changes that aren't overcomplicated, but would add a 500% increase in value to MZ would be a few simple things...

1. let us use a variable everywhere an ID is needed (Picture IDs or the like) (RM2k3 can do this, why not MZ?)
2. Let us chain conditions in conditional branches... give us this super simple and extremely basic function to compine conditions with && || etc... instead of having to stack them into eachother... (or use ugly script commands that make your eventcode a lot less readable)
3. Let us start events from within events (again, this was a thing in old Makers, why not anymore? )

Even beginner would understand those. It's small changes. They wouldn't hurt anyone, but benefit every single user out there.
 

Lion Blade Soler

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No matter what they add though, someone will say "eh, I don't need that"/"that could be done with a plugin already"/"I now a third party program that already does that". They are pretending they literally scrap the entire idea of the RPG Maker series and do something completely new, for some reason. I mean, the same excuses could be used with literally any RPG Maker version, "hey, I could already do maps and events since RPG Maker 95, it just feels like an enhanced version of the latest".
God, we are annoying.
Isn't that the truth? That's specially the case with some commentators at the Facebook page for the RPG Maker Web.
 

Touchfuzzy

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@nio kasgami Has it right. If we were going to go with everything always being an update, even completely rewriting all the corescripts of the engine and the editor, then we'd have to have some other kind of funding model. (this isn't even touching the fact that if we did this as an update (which we can't for financial reasons), there would be a riot over every single plugin being broken by an update)

We'd have to take revenue splits, but the problem with that is that very very few commercial RM games make much money and 99.999% of RM games are non-commercial (as well as the fact that we'd have to have more staff to handle that part, we could very likely spend more money on new staff than we actually make.)

Or we'd have to switch to a recurring payment type deal... which would end up costing more than just buying a new engine every 5 years. Because with the current model, for every person who uses RM seriously, there are about hundred that buy it, try it for a month and then never use it again. We'd lose most of the people who do that with a recurring payment, or they would just pay one month and be done.

Those types of users are basically subsidizing the cost for all the serious users. Not to mention... no one likes recurring payments for software. I do that for Adobe and MS Office and it sucks.

At the end of the day, we would love nothing more than for everyone to be able to use the latest engine and have the latest features, but we also have to be able to survive and for that we have to make money or RPG Maker just stops existing.

If MZ doesn't sound like something you need right now, that is fine. You don't have to buy it. We hope you will in the future, but MV will continue working as long as you have an OS that supports it (so for the foreseeable future).

I can't do anything other than tell you that MZ is better, and that personally I'm never going back to MV, as there is no reason to ever do it.
 

Lion Blade Soler

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@nio kasgami Has it right. If we were going to go with everything always being an update, even completely rewriting all the corescripts of the engine and the editor, then we'd have to have some other kind of funding model. (this isn't even touching the fact that if we did this as an update (which we can't for financial reasons), there would be a riot over every single plugin being broken by an update)

We'd have to take revenue splits, but the problem with that is that very very few commercial RM games make much money and 99.999% of RM games are non-commercial (as well as the fact that we'd have to have more staff to handle that part, we could very likely spend more money on new staff than we actually make.)

Or we'd have to switch to a recurring payment type deal... which would end up costing more than just buying a new engine every 5 years. Because with the current model, for every person who uses RM seriously, there are about hundred that buy it, try it for a month and then never use it again. We'd lose most of the people who do that with a recurring payment, or they would just pay one month and be done.

Those types of users are basically subsidizing the cost for all the serious users. Not to mention... no one likes recurring payments for software. I do that for Adobe and MS Office and it sucks.

At the end of the day, we would love nothing more than for everyone to be able to use the latest engine and have the latest features, but we also have to be able to survive and for that we have to make money or RPG Maker just stops existing.

If MZ doesn't sound like something you need right now, that is fine. You don't have to buy it. We hope you will in the future, but MV will continue working as long as you have an OS that supports it (so for the foreseeable future).

I can't do anything other than tell you that MZ is better, and that personally I'm never going back to MV, as there is no reason to ever do it.
The more I learn about MZ, the more I view MZ in the same way that I view XP and VX Ace! That's a good thing as XP and VX Ace are among my favorite RPG Makers, and to me, I do believe that MZ will be great for the long term. I'll admit that I'm not planning to get MZ right away at the moment, but I'm definitely planning to get it later on as MZ looks way better than MV and may arguably be the best RPG Maker program yet. Of course, if the pre-order offer looks really good, then I'll see if I can get MZ sooner instead of later.
 

nio kasgami

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Yeah @Touchfuzzy MANY people doesn't realise that deving a software actually cost money and I saw the QT Engine framework commercial cost and PHEW it's expensive. (3k a year PER USER). and now imagine it took 5 years to dev the new RM... I let the people do the math. but this engine costed quite a lots by itself.

SO FAR I am pleased with the change who are more than welcome. Sure I think one features that would have been pleasing is : Custom parameter binding in database so we can implement plugins features (likes the plugin command but more related to Stats etc) So we are not so reliant on Notetag to do skill customisation.

if I explain you remember the little 'Parameter' section in skills? what if we allow a 'plugin' options that just enter custom stats (can be a string, number etc). This would offer a tons of features.
OF COURSE those are just data not like you can go and do game changer. Maybe just a custom data for us plugin dev to retrieve. instead we overload the notetag section.

then us plugin dev cna just go :

const data = PluginManager.GetData(skillID, parameterName);
const converted = Json.Parse(data);
 

Winshifter

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I think that, at this point, there is an RPG Maker for all tastes....

You like old style there is RPG Maker 2003
You want to have control over how you map, there is RPG Maker XP
You want something more specific, there is VX, VX Ace and MV

Probably my categories are rather simplistic, but anyone can get the point. Also, I don't know in which category will MZ fall, but at least seems to be a better version of MV. The only thing I don't like about the reveals is that, I feel like the character from the movie Big Fish, Edward Bloom.

"This girl, the love of your life, her favorite flowers are daffodils"
"She is going to college"
"She likes music"

We get good bits of information, but the real meat...guess we have to wait till someone becomes a werewolf or something. :p
 

nio kasgami

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hahah.

if we speak of features I would have like in RM (MAYBE THEY ARE) is the possibility of use custom Term in editor (like having a list of text) that you can implement.
so people doesn't need to go in the pluginManager to change those terms.

but after this is just a though.
 

Jitsu

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If a new folder structure for the generator has many hurdles, I'm curious to see what the completely revised core will look like. If you use the working method "we avoid work that is complex", the whole thing will not be much better than in mv. they certainly didn't do everything from scratch. Even if they write it blah blah in their marketing. The core will be the same as in mv, + 1-2 changes..
 

Skyroar

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MV was already my favourite RPG Maker, and MZ seems to be a straight upgrade.

I used to dislike how old school RM engines sometimes felt more like sidegrades. Rm2k3 is out? Cool, so many new features! But if you don't enjoy it's battle system, you have to go back to 2k. XP is out? Cool, potentially a lot more powerful. But it's very restricting without scripting. Back to the basics? Here's VX, but it'll come at the cost of great mapping and some weird stupid-ass restrictions (no battle backgrounds? Seriously?)

It wasn't until VX Ace that I felt that we were finally getting a 100% better engine than the previous version, and both it and then MV were my favourite engines at their time respectively. It seems like MZ will follow that, by simply being a better version of MV.

Can't wait to start my next project!
 

Touchfuzzy

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If a new folder structure for the generator has many hurdles, I'm curious to see what the completely revised core will look like. If you use the working method "we avoid work that is complex", the whole thing will not be much better than in mv. they certainly didn't do everything from scratch. Even if they write it blah blah in their marketing. The core will be the same as in mv, + 1-2 changes..
You are misinterpreting what I said and taking it in the most uncharitable way possible. Creating a system that doesn't rely on file name coordination has a lot of hurdles. I was talking about something very different than a few folder layout changes.

Adding new pieces to the generator is not actually hard. It just requires naming things correctly. The only difficult part is knowing the naming conventions. Just changing the folder structure wouldn't change that difficulty at all.

In fact just changing the folder structure would actually be exactly what you are describing: minor meaningless change.

Compare that to changing the backend code or the new plugin command... yeah I don't see the "only changing easy stuff" you do.
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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If a new folder structure for the generator has many hurdles, I'm curious to see what the completely revised core will look like. If you use the working method "we avoid work that is complex", the whole thing will not be much better than in mv. they certainly didn't do everything from scratch. Even if they write it blah blah in their marketing. The core will be the same as in mv, + 1-2 changes..
Are you here to solely be negative, or do you have any sort of positivity to bring forth?
 

Nolonar

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I like how people who know nothing about programming constantly tell me which feature is "easy" or "difficult" to implement, even though I'm the one that's going to implement it, and they can't even be bothered to provide me with a reasonable requirement analysis document, so I'm left guessing what it is they actually need.

Ok, I lied. I actually hate it when they do.
On a semi-related note, have some XKCD:
 

KoriCongo

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Are you here to solely be negative, or do you have any sort of positivity to bring forth?
Negativity is just as important to have as positivity, you shouldn't be hard on people for not being persuaded to spend $80 of their hard-earned money again on what amounts to another marginal update to an engine that already doesn't have the best reputation in the market, even in comparison to its other versions.

You can rally and cry about all the improvements and additions, if it walks like MV, talks like MV, plays like MV, and looks like MV, you are going to have a hard time telling people to move on from MV. Especially if it still have many of the same faults as MV...
 

Jitsu

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I like many about MZ. But I'm not wowed. After 5 years i would be wowed. Realy i use the maker since 2k.

I like the new particle animation, all the small updates and the new plugin commands.

But this is all? After 5 Years a engine wat be like MV+?

Im very frustrated about the generator thing. Many Artist would make more Stuff for the Generator then this damn system would be better.

Then i become no info about the Android stuff..

This big thing of mv! (Mobile version?) Export to Android! Bäm! Oh wait..
This was a big failure. No Plugin are works on Android, no good performance. Nice.. and all plugin maker are to lazy to test there plugins on mobile because the export system is not intuitiv and easy like the rest of the engine. Oh,.. wait,.. same probleme like the one with the Generator.

This are 2 realy disappointed points in MV wat still would be in MZ after 5! Years..

Should i wait 5 other years for fix this?

I'm here to get Infos from the New engine. I'm postet the infos this like touchfuzzy hete, in a German RPG-Maker Community.

I make Marketing for free for this.. but okay then here is only aloud to be positive. I'm quiet.
 

nio kasgami

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Tbh in all the complain of features upgrade we need is the generator being not changed but let's remember in a roadmap.... The priority to upgrade a character generator is pretty goddamn low. I honestly prefer them to pass their energy / budget on upgrading other stuff like the plugin Commands than an character generator. oh and of course implementing meaningful upgrades. So nice they added arrows to the generator do it need more? yeah is it important over stability and better QOL upgrades? nope.

and I explained MANY MANY time about why it shouldn't be just an update lol so I am tired to repeat myself
 
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