RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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Anyone

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Can I tell you guys what I think of all this new RPG Maker? I honestly think of this iteration of RM (RPG Maker) to be more of a "patch" than a full RM game engine too. I don't think this deserves to be called it's own RM but more like RM MV Ace. It certainly doesn't deserve the $70-80 price tag for this whole standalone game engine.
I agree somewhat, but disagree with some of the statements.
RMZ is not the revolution I was hoping it would be, there are no bold steps to decisvely enhance the end-user experience, especially when it comes to providing an "advanced" mode or other ways for experienced users to get past many of the obstacles.
It's also not nearly as much of an evolution as I think it should be, but I've already spoken about that, and the consequences I fear for RMZ as a result at length - won't repeat them here.

I do think it's unfair to simply label it as a "patch", though, because it did rebuild the engine and add new features - some of which are very welcome improvements. And while sure, I was hoping they'd use that opportunity to integrate new ideas in the very foundation and enhance the overall flexibility of the toolset, just the rebuilding is still a lot of work, a lot of it not just coding work but cognitive work such as finding ways & solutions to better handle the way certain parts of the engine function. (Which is A LOT of the coding work. Just writing the lines is often by far the least amount of work)

That why I wouldn't subscribe to labeling it as "not deserving" a price tag. At the end of the day, as I wrote in some earlier post, it's a value proposition. People value different things differently, and what to you might not be worth your money will be worth it for someone else.
So I wouldn't support your assertion that it's not worth the price point, but I can get behind the disappointment you feel.

I would have honestly wanted for them to create a full 3D RM game engine. But ok. If it was still the same kind of 2D game engine here are the things I would want:

  • Maybe being able to edit the editor and add your own variables (like new "stat" variables)
  • Maybe make smarter enemies (such as they can only heal a wounded ally
  • Maybe make more troop event conditions
  • Maybe make more potentials for events on the "world map"
  • Make animated enemies- I care about this one a lot
  • Make support for other languages, such as C#. So when you build it, you tell it's language and you can create plugins in that language
  • Maybe make native support for various battle systems (or just include well-programmed plugins for battle systems like tactical. action and Conditional Turn Battle)
I would need at least 2 "major" ones here in order for me to purchase MZ. These major ones include support for other languages, other well-programmed battle systems and animated enemies.
Some of that will probably be fixed through plugins from the community (like in MV) but yeah, more improvements in general would've been very welcome.

Support for other languages, though, I think would probably be impossible.
The engine is in JS, and you can't rewrite the engine for every coding language.
You'd probably have to design an entire JS -> C# converter to make that work, which I have no idea how anyone would go about, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be easy. So that one thing would be an insane workload for what wouldn't be necessarily a big improvement - in part because any new code advantage you could gain would come back to haunt you in compatibility issues and a community that's split across multiple coding languages.
 

bgillisp

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Not gonna happen. If you get all of that forget plug-ins, as the more you make native the HARDER it is to make plug-ins. So you really should just decide do you want plug-in support or not? As the more battle systems pre built there are the more plug-ins have to dance around them and/or support all of them when most authors don't have the time to do that, especially for free.

Same with adding or your own custom stats. You put that in fuget ever seeing a menu plug-in as they will have no way to handle all of your stats you set up, especially as they can't read your mind on how you want them to relate to each other.
 

Sharm

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I think there's two schools of thought at odds here, based on whether or not you think this is a refinement or a stagnation. Personally, I think there's enough value in refinement to warrant a new engine and the costs involved in buying one, but I also think that where MV is at isn't at the point where only refining it would be the best next step. I'm a little disappointed that there's no major changes that makes it break away from the MV base, I think there's a lot of options there that could be explored. However, I also think that the improvements over MV is going to make it worth my time and money, so even if it's not ideal, it's acceptable and understandable. I just hope that this doesn't become the norm for them, as that will eventually lead to stagnation. Refinement alone won't carry them though many more makers before they start losing their user base.
 

Chaos17

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It was just a bad example using Scene_Battle because I'm working with that now, so it was more easily available.

Functionally what I did isn't different than "aliasing" because JS doesn't actually have a concept of aliasing; in both cases it overrides the original method, and super calls the extended class's method, similar to how with the prototype way you'd call a variable reference to the "old" function. Also, extending a class like this tends to be faster during runtime due to how the JS engine parses it, and causes less memory overhead than the "old" prototype way, as it can internally mark the classes as extending each other and parse them differently, from what I understand. Don't quote me on this though, it's been a while since I read up on that.
Can I ask where did you learned this because I would love to read it myself too since I am in the process of learning JS :LZSooo:
 

Chaos17

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nio kasgami

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I could go again on a rant to counter argue with your opinion @ssunlimited but i am sleep deprived and I am just gonna quote this

Yep and those people doesnt realise they rewritten the whole goddamn engine. The whole corescript as well to a new version of framework...
But not they must be senior software enginer. We should let these people write the engine.

all sarcasm aside.

No this isn't just a 'patch' when you rewrite the whole engine from scratch to a new version. and as well the full corescript to be more performant.
Updating an engine cost a lots. fixing bug cost money. people have to realise that it's an one time purchase engine. At some point they will need to create a new RM to give them the budget or this would create a budget deficit to kadokawa.

as I said once in a comment : for a constant update engine to work you have either to offers it free but require royalties or have subscription based. which allow them to pay their workers to update the engine.

as you want to fix an engine at some points it doesn't worth the cost and it's better to start from scratch and starting from scratch to an existing engine will just cause angry people.

but what I know? those people must know more than me the guy who work in game dev for years , used software who cost you 300$ a month to use. but eh must not known I guess.
 

Htlaets

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I'm actually kinda wondering if the semi-external semi-integrated tools like Sakan will carry over. I suppose while their functionality is external they'd still need to be patched to work with MZ, but it doesn't seem like such a huge patch job. Granted those tools weren't exactly great. Sakan was nice for some super-quick and dirty swapping tiles into tilesets, at least, even if it's otherwise severely lacking as a tile editor.

Hoping that future external tool dlc is much more useful. Something like this: https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/rpg-maker-mv-dialogue-editor.111291/ would be so welcome.
 

ItsAri

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:kaopride:CHIBIS ARE GONE :kaopride:
I didn't mind the chibi style but this is an absolute upgrade :kaojoy:
 

ssunlimited

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And besides what I've written, I just wanted to add that my computer can't handle MZ according to these requirements and I have no reason to buy this one based on these improvements. I have also invested more than $100 for things for MV just a few days ago so that would be a waste. I am personally not impressed, but I don't mean to "criticize" it. I mean it more like "constructive criticism". But why shouldn't I keep my MV? It's perfectly fine imo and I really like this engine I have invested in so much money in.
 

nio kasgami

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And besides what I've written, I just wanted to add that my computer can't handle MZ according to these requirements and I have no reason to buy this one based on these improvements. I have also invested more than $100 for things for MV just a few days ago so that would be a waste. I am personally not impressed, but I don't mean to "criticize" it. I mean it more like "constructive criticism". But why shouldn't I keep my MV? It's perfectly fine imo and I really like this engine I have invested in so much money in.
And as fuzzy said you are perfectly finr to keep mv!
Nothing stop you from not upgrading this doesnt mean u not a cool kid if you dont upgrade xD

Theres people who still use rm 2k3
So you perfectly fine to just use a specific maker.
 

Touchfuzzy

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And besides what I've written, I just wanted to add that my computer can't handle MZ according to these requirements and I have no reason to buy this one based on these improvements. I have also invested more than $100 for things for MV just a few days ago so that would be a waste. I am personally not impressed, but I don't mean to "criticize" it. I mean it more like "constructive criticism". But why shouldn't I keep my MV? It's perfectly fine imo and I really like this engine I have invested in so much money in.
Keeping MV is a perfectly valid choice.

Out of curiosity though, what was that $100 spent on? If it was in commissioning plugins, yeah, not useful.

But on the subject of like, most graphic resources, they are still compatible anyway.
 

Xelion

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1- Why do some feel like they're forced to upgrade and can't keep using older software? Is this like the "new phone model" many have to buy even if they don't need it?
2- I understand that people want more new features. But most of what is being asked can be implemented with plugins. Wouldn't it be better to have them integrated without the need of them? Obviously yeah, but why then people complain saying "I don't care about ATB (or X feature) because it could be done with a plugin"? There's no solution, right? Whatever they do, it's wrong.
3- Changing the whole engine because you prefer other languages? Well, I might as well just ask the RM staff to gift me the program and send me videos of themselves dancing the hula... We're just asking too much now.

PD: if RM MZ doesn't have an automatic 3D game generator that composes different songs with a few clicks while running on a Pentium 2 with MS-DOS and Windows 95, then I'm not wowed.
 

The Stranger

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1- Why do some feel like they're forced to upgrade and can't keep using older software? Is this like the "new phone model" many have to buy even if they don't need it?
Probably. Countless people want things just because it's the latest thing, doesn't matter if they'll never actually make use of it. Could also be some people feeling like they must upgrade, as if what they're currently using is being cast aside and made useless, that it's now outdated junk. It probably has something to do with how people like to show off things they own when socialising.
Some might also want to feel like they're part of something from the start, like they're part of something bigger than themselves.

It's a very common thing, and companies play on this mindset all of the time.
 
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TWings

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  • Maybe make smarter enemies (such as they can only heal a wounded ally
You do realise that there's pretty much 0 enemy AI in the engine ?
It's up to you to make the enemies "smart" using the Enemy and Troop tabs.
 

ssunlimited

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Out of curiosity though, what was that $100 spent on? If it was in commissioning plugins, yeah, not useful.
It was honestly: $32 for all of Yanfly's plugins on itch.io and the rest on a lot graphical resources, some generator parts and some music resources.
 
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