RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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Tsukimi-neko

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Event: Plugin Command Powered Up!
Oh my, this is THE MOST POWERFUL AND USEFUL UPGRADE for me!
In rmmv, I've to always check how should I use the plugin command and copy-paste them, and it becomes annoying when some powerful plugin needs multiple commands to setup.

In this way, I could easily choose the correct command and parameter in a few seconds. And as a plugin creator(maybe), I can save tons of times when making the documentation of the plugin.
 

Parallax Panda

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While none of these features are awesome enough that it’ll make me fall off my chair, they’re all welcome improvements and nice quality of life stuff. Maybe not he most exciting reveal yet but good stuff nonetheless.

Now... how about a release date?
 
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I like the new plugin features, especially how plugins can now have built in "this requires x plugin". I'm interested in seeing how much easier that'll make plugin use and plugin creation.
Being able to add gradients so easily is also nice, having to have three different gradient.png images was kinda hectic. How does it know which gradients are for which pieces, though? Or can it just use any gradients for any pieces?
 

Touchfuzzy

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I like the new plugin features, especially how plugins can now have built in "this requires x plugin". I'm interested in seeing how much easier that'll make plugin use and plugin creation.
Being able to add gradients so easily is also nice, having to have three different gradient.png images was kinda hectic. How does it know which gradients are for which pieces, though? Or can it just use any gradients for any pieces?
It has separate gradient files for different parts. It is 4 different files: Clothes/Accessories, Skin, Eyes, Hair. (I think that is how many it is, anyway it is multiple, and I'm too tired to go look right now)
 

SJWebster

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Is it just me or does the opening paragraph promise something other than what the post delivers?

What it says: "what is on the table for this week: Graphics, Mapping changes and Eventing! "
What we got: Character generator, plugins, and behind the scenes editor changes.

I criticised the marketing on a number of occasions for being too slow a burn and for allowing the impulsive "Take my money!" moment to pass. You've now got a cold handover where that initial excitement, which would have caused me to impulse spend, has long gone, making the job of selling me the engine harder, not easier. I previously talked about how most purchases are emotive rather than rational, you need to know when to close the sale, and that's why shadow drops have been working so well.

This update makes me want to stop following these threads because there's very little here for me. I don't use the character generator because I don't use RTP and while you can add custom parts, it can't handle tall sprites. The main change here, being able to adjust positions of individual parts, is something we already saw in the trailer and had confirmed through the forums. It's not news.

The plugin changes are convenient and nice to have, but hardly game changers. They're just not substantial. Everything this offers can be done in MV, and while they'll be much faster and easier to do in MZ it comes across as merely a step forward rather than a leap.

The editor changes, again, that's nice, well done to the development team. Pat on the back for optimisation, but it's the behind-the-scenes stuff I'm not likely to notice or care about. It will silently improve my user experience, and that's a good thing, but I'm unlikely to consciously notice it while using MZ.

Compare that to last week's reveals, which felt much more substantial and impressive, and it feels like the marketing team are running out of things to talk about. It almost feels like an update for the sake of an update at this point. Hopefully, that also means we're nearing the end of this painful drip-feed which is now actively reducing my interest in the product.

I don't think it's just me that's becoming apathetic. The last thread noted how the number of replies and amount of conversation was dwindling thread to thread, week to week. In my view, it's because you passed the peak of interest. You missed the prime opportunity to strike. People are bored now, global attention spans are constantly and dramatically reducing. They've moved on to something else. I genuinely think this campaign's been mishandled and that's going to harm the sales figures.

Lower uptake would be particularly concerning for MZ because of how much these engines rely on the community, the resources they create and share, and the killer apps they make with the engine. When an Ara Fell, Corpse Party, Lisa, or Heartbeat come out people go "Wait, that was RPG Maker?" and interest in the engine spikes. If people don't get onboard the newest version, that stand out game is less likely to appear.

(Edited to fix so many typos in the original post.)
 

Shaz

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Compare that to last week's reveals, which felt more substantial, and it feels like the marketing team are running out of things to talk about.
As a coder who's been waiting patiently while everyone else was wowed with battle systems and graphics and other stuff, I think I deserve to hear a bit about plugin handling. Sorry it doesn't appeal to you, but updates aren't meant to target just one person.

You probably should be grateful for the slow trickle. If not for that, you may have handed over your money on impulse, only to be disappointed because MV already does everything MZ will do ... apparently.
 
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ImaginaryVillain

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you have a Twitter poll to add an indepth reveal to this update? And didn't Tilesets win? Not that I mind, what you revealed interests me way more.
 

xDRAGOONx

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Wow, the only thing I'm personally interested in is how I will look into the eye of madness pimping out my gradients selections, but the QoL for scripters here is really encouraging. Load order is often disorienting to me, so that's another small thing with a big impact.
My gradients will have gradients! Gradient-ception!
They have created a monster...a multi-colored, single-minded abomination from the farthest reaches of the interweebs, hell bent on recoloring the WORLD! Annnnnnnnd I'm going to bed
 

Trihan

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Is it just me or does the opening paragraph promise something other than what the post delivers?

What it says: "what is on the table for this week: Graphics, Mapping changes and Eventing! "
What we got: Character generator, plugins, and behind the scenes editor changes.

I criticised the marketing on a number of occasions for being too slow a burn and for allowing the impulsive "Take my money!" moment to pass. You've now got a cold handover where that initial excitement, which would have caused me to impulse spend, has long gone, making the job of selling me the engine harder, not easier. I previously talked about how most purchases are emotive rather than rational, you need to know when to close the sale, and that's why shadow drops have been working so well.

This update makes me want to stop following these threads because there's very little here for me. I don't use the character generator because I don't use RTP and while you can add custom parts, it can't handle tall sprites. The main change here, being able to adjust positions of individual parts, is something we already saw in the trailer and had confirmed through the forums. It's not news.

The plugin changes are convenient and nice to have, but hardly game changers. They're just not substantial. Everything this offers can be done in MV, and while they'll be much faster and easier to do in MZ it comes across as merely a step forward rather than a leap.

The editor changes, again, that's nice, well done to the development team. Pat on the back for optimisation, but it's the behind-the-scenes stuff I'm not likely to notice or care about. It will silently improve my user experience, and that's a good thing, but I'm unlikely to consciously notice it while using MZ.

Compare that to last week's reveals, which felt much more substantial and impressive, and it feels like the marketing team are running out of things to talk about. It almost feels like an update for the sake of an update at this point. Hopefully, that also means we're nearing the end of this painful drip-feed which is now actively reducing my interest in the product.

I don't think it's just me that's becoming apathetic. The last thread noted how the number of replies and amount of conversation was dwindling thread to thread, week to week. In my view, it's because you passed the peak of interest. You missed the prime opportunity to strike. People are bored now, global attention spans are constantly and dramatically reducing. They've moved on to something else. I genuinely think this campaign's been mishandled and that's going to harm the sales figures.

Lower uptake would be particularly concerning for MZ because of how much these engines rely on the community, the resources they create and share, and the killer apps they make with the engine. When an Ara Fell, Corpse Party, Lisa, or Heartbeat come out people go "Wait, that was RPG Maker?" and interest in the engine spikes. If people don't get onboard the newest version, that stand out game is less likely to appear.

(Edited to fix so many typos in the original post.)
The paragraph mismatch seems to have been a simple matter of forgetting to change it from last preview, when it actually was for graphics, mapping changes and eventing.

This one seemed to be mainly for the resource creators and plugin coders, and trust me we're excited about it. It's okay for not every update to be for you. I get what you're saying, but i think you're perhaps jumping the gun on saying it.

I don't think you've fully comprehended how hugely these changes are going to cut down on support issue volume.
 

Candacis

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I guessed this update was either plugin related or database. So database has to be next (and maybe last?). I can't imagine what comes after the database reveal. So, do they hide the best for last?

@ImaginaryVillain It was already shown in the last thread, but was easy to miss. You can watch it on twitter:

 

Touchfuzzy

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Is it just me or does the opening paragraph promise something other than what the post delivers?

What it says: "what is on the table for this week: Graphics, Mapping changes and Eventing! "
What we got: Character generator, plugins, and behind the scenes editor changes.
It's called I'm running on a sleep deficit and I'll admit I overlooked that I left the intro paragraph from the last announce in.

As for the rest of your post?

I promise you a lot of the plugin creators are salivating right now. Not every bit of info is going to be for every user.
 

Htlaets

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Kinda curious with the char gen: how different is the base body from MV? It kinda looks like the SV is mostly the same motions, but that could be my terrible comparison skills.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you have a Twitter poll to add an indepth reveal to this update? And didn't Tilesets win? Not that I mind, what you revealed interests me way more.
It wasn't meant to be part of this week's update. It was for an extra thing during the week.
 

slimmmeiske2

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Less of an interesting update for me, but I'm sure our coders will be super happy with this news. Also, hopefully the generator updates help to improve the sameness I felt each and every time I saw someone using it.

@ImaginaryVillain Yes, they did and they were shown of here.
 

DoubleX

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My first feelings:

1. For the load order thing, I don't know what the plugin developers have to do exactly to define the load orders in MZ(as long as all plugins involved declare their existences like using Imported, this can be done in MV for some plugins even though it probably involves quite some work on the plugin developer side), so I'll refrain from passing judgement on this one(I also wonder the amount of load order complexity it can handle, as back in VXA I've faced a case where script A needs to be placed above script B only if script C is present, which is an insane and rare case anyway).

2. I wonder whether the MZ plugin manager allows users to group plugins into folder-like things in the manager as well(like grouping all plugins written by the same plugin developer into the same folder), so users using hundreds of plugins don't have to scroll over such a long list.

3. I like how the MZ plugin managers tried to save time for users and plugin developers, by letting plugins to be switched on/off in the list, showing an url there, etc. While every single change may only save a bit of time per operation, the combined time saved can still be huge in the long run.

4. The plugin command in MZ seems to be much, much more useful than the MV counterpart(Maybe I'm too dumb, but I really don't even know what's the point of plugin commands in MV over well-documented traditional script calls yet).

5. I welcome the use of ES6 in the default RMMZ codebase, but I'm more curious on the codebase quality improvement over MV even though I know it's a partially subjective matter and different plugin developers will take it very differently(For instance, I hope that windows having many drawings that should be independent will no longer use a single canva to draw them all, which is especially the case in the battle status window. This causes wanting to redraw a supposedly independent part to have to redraw the whole window).

Overall, I'm slightly wowed now, and I'm looking more and more forward to using MZ every single day, although I still don't think I'll just jump in on day one(I still have some plugins to write in MV) :)
 
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nio kasgami

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Yeah I was a little : what? when reading the comment.

Us plugin dev screamed for like 4 weeks to know what will be the news for US plugins dev.

as it is more cattered toward the programming side we can now ask way more question related to the framework such How do we implements plugins comment and etc. Fuzzy can now speak about that and give us somethign to know.


related to that @Touchfuzzy is it possible to show us how the plugin structure will look now?
 

Eliaquim

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Holy... That was AMAZING!!
One of the things that I hate in making plugins is the plugin commands. Case sensitive or not, etc... put all of that in the help file, write them down on editor... now it's gone!!!
I wasn't so hyped, but now I definitely am. I will keep making more plugins to mv, just to try to make an mz version for them too!
But, but, where is the release date?! :kaoluv:
 
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