RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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Htlaets

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It is not a dealbreaker for me, but it is also not something I'm getting excited about.
It is probably too late to make adjustments to the rtp. Still, people giving all kinds of feedback about other aspects of the new makter. Why not about the rtp?

In whole, I feel the MZ rtp is a huge missed opportunity. So many improvements in other areas of MZ, but someone thought let's make almost the same MV rtp again in the same style? Little innovation or experiments here. At least what I've seen so far.
I was at least hoping that they'd make the snow tiles separate and use the space saved to make more detailed outside tilesets, but w/e.
 
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Sword_of_Dusk

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Thanks to @Avery I can see the problem with the RTP, which really makes me curious about how that could've happened.
 

chalkdust

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Hey guys :) I'm new here and i have a stupid question ahah
How i can download this plugin for characters generator ?
I know how to instal plugin but i dont see any link for download it so, im curious
(Some of you are so talented im jealous and YES, im bad in english ahah (thats why i dont know how to download the plugin,,,))
Thanks :D
This post is showing features in a new version of RPGMaker that is not released yet. It is not a download for RMMV. It is the new RMMZ.
 

Shaz

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Hello,

So, @Archeia has given me the go-a-head to explain properly how the new Plugin Commands work.
This is so awesome!

Can you tell us, where you are able to select actors or states and have a drop-down list, can you also use that for switches, variables, and terms?

I was at least hoping that they'd make the snow tiles separate and use the space saved to make more detailed outside tilesets
I'd prefer they keep the RTP tilesets the same as MV (as in, the same things on the same tiles). It makes it easier to write a converter for people who are using MV RTP. If they moved things around, the maps would have to be redone manually.
 

Kaliya

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Can you tell us, where you are able to select actors or states and have a drop-down list, can you also use that for switches, variables, and terms?
If you mean, can you use variables and switches as a selection option/drop down in plugin commands, then yes. Any type that was valid in MV will work.
 

K2loid

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Huh? Hi bit? But none of this is high bit, it's not pixel art at all. The style differences aren't dependant on pixel art vs raster either so it's not a case of being used to one style and failing to switch to a new one.
Well, more or less yeah. If I had to describe it, it's like "this is the Advanced version of old pixel art now that we can Fit Stuff", with the sensibility of "at a higher scale, dithering is no longer necessary, because there's no longer limitations on colour", and then "we can just draw the borders in pixels and then paint the insides". There's quite a lot of pixel art in MV, just like there seems to be in MZ, but it's constructed with huge pools of colours and imitating what looks to be multimedia art around it. While it's true modern users demand higher resolutions, there seems to be a lack of awareness of the new hotness being "the same but with larger canvases", rather than this weird middle ground where it's so much easier to be inconsistent.

The art direction definitely calls to mind the design of Final Fantasy PSP games.


Which doesn't necessarily even look bad all the time; the popularity of First Seed Material can attest to that. But the lack of commitment is an issue.
1594593005775.png
Like this here; stark black shading on the shingles, stark lines on the boards giving a nice, clean, crisp shape, shadows that mix in well on the roof, and then...dinky little soft shading on the walls. No darks on the same level. Moss is also pretty soft.
1594593496735.png
Or a return of The Worst Way To Make Forest Walls, where the trees are soft and vague yet surrounded in drastic black that creates a weird cutoff on staggered levels, and there is again that unnatural straight line shading at the bottom, because filling the whole tile with Tree was more important than how it looks when drawn on the map. Bold to place ivy on that.

I'm actually fan of these tiles, and I genuinely think that it does a much better job at what it was going for than MV, but........ you know.............. it's got some holes. Little wee ones.

Ugh, I've thought about it too long, now I want to try my hand on making my own tilesets. I've always been kind of wary of it, but this inspires a Hunger.
 

chaucer

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@Kaliya I'm not sure if you can answer this, but have any new types been added? Or are there only the same types as in MV?
 

Kaliya

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I cannot say. Not only because I am not sure If I would be allowed to say, but also because I am honestly not entirely sure I haven't messed around with it too much.
 

Sharm

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@K2loid I think I get what you're saying now. I think a lot of remakes have a similar weirdness due to a lack of art direction, actually. They'd use the original as the art direction instead of a real leader since the thought is that it's the same but higher resolution, and maybe due to not having an active direction or maybe due to the higher resolution not hiding their poor ability, all the 2D ones I've seen introduced a lot of mistakes. Or maybe there's a problem with the different styles and scales not needing the same things, like how it's not easy to turn a good book into a good movie. In any case, a good art director could fix those issues just by providing a little focus in where everyone ends up and not let it look quite so weird. Of course, remakes often also have a problem of not enough budget for the art, so they tend to cut a lot of corners too.

Still, for MZ's tiles I hold to what I said before, a lot of the flaws Avery pointed out would still be a problem regardless of if it was 16x16 low color pixel art or high color 64x64 tiles. Implied lines, switching between no inner lines and hard inner lines, perspective switching, those things are flaws in any art style, and clashing styles is a problem with art direction. If the overall problem is caused by an attempt at high res with a low res mentality, then that's actually a much bigger problem than what I've been talking about. That's not just a leader problem, that's incompetence from everyone involved. It implies that they either hired inexperienced people and/or did have enough money, and didn't have a good leader to teach those lagging behind or play to their strengths.

I guess what I'm saying is, I think the problem is the art director not existing or not giving enough direction, which would lead to a lot of "do whatever you want as long as it's not awful" mishmash in the style. But it is possible that what you're saying is true too, but then that's worse, because anyone who is really good at low res has a certain amount of skill for any resolution, it's just the nature of art. So if that's the problem then there's just a bunch of bad artists making this RTP and whoever is in charge doesn't care enough to resolve it. Personally, I prefer to think it's just a problem with direction, less people to be upset with and more likely to get resolved in the next one.

Ah, I feel like I'm not expressing it well, I hope you understand though.

EDIT: I think I should add one thing. This is all my personal opinion about things, colored by my experiences as both a tile artist and a one time job as an art director. Since I've never worked as either in an office setting it may not be accurate.
 

Cyberhawk

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Yo can we get another image of Wendy:ptea:
 

Conflictx3

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Maybe I'm missing something but I can already turn my plugins on/off from the list just be right clicking, infact I do it often I highlight a group of them and right click to off/on
 

GethN7

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I apologize if I seem pushy, please tell me if I need to cease asking and I will desist immediately, but in the event @Touchfuzzy or another person who has authority to speak on behalf of the developers knows the answers and is authorized to share them, is there any hard data on map sizes and database entry limitations?
 

Shaz

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There is still at least one more reveal to come (on Thursday), which might go into stuff like that. We haven't seen much of the database yet.
 

Candacis

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I'd prefer they keep the RTP tilesets the same as MV (as in, the same things on the same tiles). It makes it easier to write a converter for people who are using MV RTP. If they moved things around, the maps would have to be redone manually.
I get that. That's a good argument, but with this I understand even less why they didn't include the MV rtp, same naming, everything, so the maps would look 100% the same. AND then add a new MZ rtp, that expands the old MV rtp, for instance, with a ship tileset, or more science fiction, or japan focused etc.
It would have been a good incentive for some MV users to buy the new maker. That's what I mean with missed opportunity.
But I don't know, if buyers would have been unhappy having the same basic MV rtp. Maybe kadokawa didn't want MZ associated with MV.

Still, I'm not seeing that much difference in the MZ rtp. I get the feeling from it that the rtp didn't get as much attention (and oversight) as other aspects of the maker. There is some good stuff in there and I'm curious the see the whole tilesets, but, yeah.. it could have been so much more.
 

nausica

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This post is showing features in a new version of RPGMaker that is not released yet. It is not a download for RMMV. It is the new RMMZ.
Oooooh thanks :D
 

Goldschuss

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Was it necessary to make a new maker for this? Couldn't you have updated RPG Maker MV to include this functionality? It doesn't seem like anything groundbreaking, compared to the transition from Ace to MV..
 

Htlaets

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I'd prefer they keep the RTP tilesets the same as MV (as in, the same things on the same tiles). It makes it easier to write a converter for people who are using MV RTP. If they moved things around, the maps would have to be redone manually.
That's assuming people didn't edit their tilesets. Not to mention people using hte RTP probably have far more maps using the non-winter tiles than using the winter one, so that'd be an edge case anyway (i.e. if they keep the non-winter tiles in the same place a non-winter map would translate just fine, heck they could even put the equivalent winter tiles on a winter RTP where their winter equivalents would be in the MV RTP and then add the additional opened up slots as extra stuff).

If there's carry over, there'll be some problems to work through for most projects regarding tile transfer anyway. Though, those problems shouldn't be terribly difficult to work through so long as the tileset database transfers as well. All you need is the PNG's of your original tilesets then.

Anyway, it's done, just seems like a missed opportunity.
 

Kes

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Was it necessary to make a new maker for this? Couldn't you have updated RPG Maker MV to include this functionality?
See this post from touchfuzzy, and several other people, explaining why no company can keep on doing free updates for ever, but at some point has to generate sales in order to stay in existence.
 

RastaMan

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Can i ask question, that was bothering me since MV's release?
Why one tile became 48x from 32x, but not 64x?
I mean, main theory, that i heard was "We had not enough space in one tile for RTP!", but...
One good man said, that there is one principle of pixel graphics, that about scaling: "Multiplying must be done on proper multiplicity (1x, 2x, 3x)."
So... 32x can be just 64x, right?
I am also created several maps for Doom and Half-Life 1, so i know that fact, that one or both two sides of texture must have size == power of 2 (8x, 16x, 32x, 64x, 128x, 256x, 512x and etc.).
And here we go again with 64x...
But as result we have 48x, that is scale == 1.5x of VXA tile (32x -> 48x).
To be honest, this is pain in the back to scale VXA tiles to MV (Adobe Photoshop or Waifu2X can grant different, but not ideal results and there is always some graphical artifacts like pixels and lines, that are off).
Someone can tell me, that there is some packs just for MV, but what if i have them already for VXA?
Don't take my post as personal attack or something and thank you already for your honest answer.
 
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