RPG Maker MZ, Preview #3: Character Generator, Plugin Manager, Event: Plugin Command!

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Sharm

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@Archeia your 48x48 tiles are amazing, I've been in awe for a long time. To me 48x48 is just sooo much work. You can get some really lovely stuff in there, but it takes a lot longer to do it. I don't have the stamina for it!
 

Solar_Flare

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I was just thinking recently that while this plugin command upgrade does seem quite nice, it also might make the plugin command a little less flexible. Some plugins have commands with optional parameters, for example, or they have the structure of the command determine its effect. I haven't yet thought of one that actually would be impossible with the new system, mind you; the first case might not be a problem at all (just leave optional parameters blank) and for the second maybe you could just make each one a separate command instead of bundling everything into a single command. (If each plugin has its own command namespace, that makes it less important to use a subcommand system, after all.)

2. I wonder if later on the MZ plugin command will be further upgraded to let users search/type a plugin/plugin command name in the list(perhaps with some kind of auto complete features) as well :D
Umm, what? Given that the plugin list in MV is already searchable, why would you expect them to remove that feature in MZ?

If the back system of editor is not changed,
There is a small hack that you can type the first character of your plugin name to jump near to your target plugin.
This also applies to other lists like BGM/SE.
Is that so? I've always used Ctrl+F when I couldn't find what I was looking for. Works in every list view as far as I know. But does it work if your plugins aren't sorted alphabetically?

Wow, I'm so happy that the base classes have been rewritten in ES6.
I suppose I'm the only one who's not entirely happy about this, huh?

(Note: I stopped reading the thread on page 8, so apologies if someone said this already.)
I didn't say the new way isn't useful. But I cannot comprehend why someone would replace the command line entirely, rather than just adding the new one?
That's easy. Supporting both ways means that plugin coders have twice the work.

Secondly, I disagree that it'd be a lot of work. Both are effectively doing the same thing:
They call a function with a number of arguments. The only difference is how the function and the arguments are selected.

In the current version, from what I can see, you select the function to be called and edit the parameters in the plugin command's option window.
What the editor then sends to the js game system is effectively no different than a call(function, arguments) which is ultimately the same thing as calling it via plugin command.
All you'd have to do is add the plugin commands into the plugin interpretor which is not difficult at all.

The way the function and the parameters are handled would be identical in both systems.
Based on the image, you are almost certainly completely wrong here. The old system is an array of arguments. The new system looks like it uses an object for the arguments, not an array.
 

Alexandr_7

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Judging because I read in MZ, several sizes of tiles will not be delivered. At least 2. This is familiar to all x32 and the new x 48. A better 3. Return also x16
 

Canini

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Plz add A UI Editor, so we can make custom menus :D
That is my big WANT for this new engine. I think being able to cut out a lot of the clutter if you are working on a game of a simpler nature would be very welcome. And if you are working on a more complicated game it would good to be able to build it from scratch instead of "overlaying" it on the normal interface with plugins.
 

Anyone

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Umm, what? Given that the plugin list in MV is already searchable, why would you expect them to remove that feature in MZ?
The plugin list =/= plugin commands. They are two seperate things, the second one being new.
That aside, the search function in the plugin list that's currently used is a very clumsy implementation.
The ideal way would be a seperate text field that you can enter a match into, very much like in an explorer, with it autolisting the matches, not having you click through all matches.

(Note: I stopped reading the thread on page 8, so apologies if someone said this already.)
That's easy. Supporting both ways means that plugin coders have twice the work.
Around the same post, I've actually given a code example. The additional work is marginal, optional, and such additional work has, even in normal plugin commands, plugin options and automatic injections always existed.

Based on the image, you are almost certainly completely wrong here. The old system is an array of arguments. The new system looks like it uses an object for the arguments, not an array.
It's pretty much irrelevant whether it's an object or an array or a variable imported via the plugin.
Both do the same thing, the contained things being passed onto the JS engine.
What is passed on is operated on identically, the plugin command itself is merely a short binding element between the values imported from the plugins.js.

If the new plugin command gives you an object, that actually means you have to do an additional step to JSON.parse that object into an actual object (because a plugin command cannot give you an actual object, it can only give you the "blueprint" for one, you still have to parse it) and then you need to take the object.value and hand them over to the function as arguments.

Whether you register the command or alias the plugin command and add a command, at the end of the day you'll execute a single function(args) that executes with the given arguments.
That's seconds of additional code you have to write.

The only difference I can see is if you give the object to the function you wish to execute and have the parsing process take part in a lead-up step inside the function you wish to execute.
(which is just unnecessary. If you do that step previously, you'll end up at the same point in which you call your function as you would during an aliased plugin command.).
 

Archeia

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That is my big WANT for this new engine. I think being able to cut out a lot of the clutter if you are working on a game of a simpler nature would be very welcome. And if you are working on a more complicated game it would good to be able to build it from scratch instead of "overlaying" it on the normal interface with plugins.
You can have it but it won't be compatible with any plugin.
And UI doesn't work cleanly that way. Compared to say a HUD. The interactivity element of UI is what makes it hard to have a visual editor.

now i disappear to the dark.
 

Rukiri

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48x48 again? No thanks, will stick to tiled and stick to proper tile sizes. Tile sizes should always be a power of 2 8x8, 16,16, 32x32, 64x64 etc. Not 1.5x from 32x32.

The generator stuff is neat as long as it allows for custom sizes.
 

Touchfuzzy

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48x48 again? No thanks, will stick to tiled and stick to proper tile sizes. Tile sizes should always be a power of 2 8x8, 16,16, 32x32, 64x64 etc. Not 1.5x from 32x32.
This isn't as like, a representative of RPG Maker or anything. But from just a perspective of thinking this argument always comes from "well it should be this way because it should be this way":

Why?

Why should they always be powers of 2? Other than a dogmatic rule what purpose does it serve?
 

ZoeZero

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Are they adding diagonal sprites to the generator too?
 

nio kasgami

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@Touchfuzzy power of two is just better for rescalling in matter of graphics but the size is not an absolute rules it depends in how the engine renders the bitmap. Pixi.js isn't dependant on *2. 3D textures tend to be more dependant on power of 2 due it's need to be square while tileset in general isn't a power of 2?
 

Rukiri

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This isn't as like, a representative of RPG Maker or anything. But from just a perspective of thinking this argument always comes from "well it should be this way because it should be this way":

Why?

Why should they always be powers of 2? Other than a dogmatic rule what purpose does it serve?
Well first off odd sizes can lead to weird graphical glitches, but most importantly larger sizes just look like tiles and because of the size its way to blocky or looks bad because you tried adding curves and just makes the tiles look weird.
 

Touchfuzzy

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@Touchfuzzy power of two is just better for rescalling in matter of graphics but the size is not an absolute rules it depends in how the engine renders the bitmap. Pixi.js isn't dependant on *2. 3D textures tend to be more dependant on power of 2 due it's need to be square while tileset in general isn't a power of 2?
That is the thing though, the rule only seems to matter in RM if you are resizing tiles. But let's be honest: Resizing tiles isn't the only concern, and stuff like using plugins to use different native tile sizes and just using resized tiles in editor is a much better solution for that.

Well first off odd sizes can lead to weird graphical glitches, but most importantly larger sizes just look like tiles and because of the size its way to blocky or looks bad because you tried adding curves and just makes the tiles look weird.
None of the blockiness has to do with the size of the tiles. XP had much more curved tiles and were smaller. Blockiness has to do with a combination of art style and autotile format. Neither of which are related to tile size.

And there are no graphical glitches caused by using any specific tile size.
 

ghorba96

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On the 1:1 pixels for exporting maps: That was already confirmed to be the case in a previous announce.
Does this mean that we can easily export our maps to photoshop without the use of plugin? With this and the layers, parallaxing will be much easier. I wonder, with MZ, will there be more parallax layers or will it be like MV?
 

Touchfuzzy

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Does this mean that we can easily export our maps to photoshop without the use of plugin? With this and the layers, parallaxing will be much easier. I wonder, with MZ, will there be more parallax layers or will it be like MV?
Yes to easily export to edit in photoshop.

No to more parallax layers.
 

nio kasgami

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@Touchfuzzy so then it's nothing to be worried about Power of 2 is only use if you are using stuff who use parallax in some form but EVEN then as long a texture is square it will load properly.

People think that those 'graphical' rules are absolute but they are not lol. Even in Maya you can load non square texture (rectangle) and still be able to use it fine.

what get's complicated is when we use Rect data type for framing. (which even is not related to power of 2 but by Square format).

I would love RM to have atlas support though so we can bundle UI material in one layer.
I might try to create a plugin for that. since PIXI support 'atlas' (named spritesheet)
 

K2loid

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Personally I think 48x48 is a perfect size...ish. For characters, it fits a little awkward (I wish we still had rectangles you have no idea how much I miss rectangles) but it's a good size for both simple and complex-looking tilesets. I don't think there's any real benefit for 64x64 except god. I wish. It was easier to design default resolution characters who wear really big hats.

But being reminded of XP's autotile format makes me miss it again :kaocry: soft..........

..............Oh!! With the layering system, you can make a sheet dedicated to XP-style tiles that can be drawn tile-by-tile!! OHHHH

Yo can we get another image of Wendy:ptea:
You have no idea how much Wendy images I have within me but speaking of

@Touchfuzzy
Spare Wendy modern clothes? MZ is an isekai engine after all. (Also I designed some but then realized that I have no idea what kind of modern clothes are in the engine & I don't want to pixel it by hand. And I would. I would do that.)
 
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For characters, it fits a little awkward (I wish we still had rectangles you have no idea how much I miss rectangles)
? am I missing something? cause I use rectangles in Character-sets all the time.
 

MadRamDesigns

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...I have a hypothesis for them using the 48x48 size, and it's less to do with memory allocation and more to do with keeping the business going. This isn't a thing about "greedy companies" it's actually quite smart. Outside of rpgmaker how many resources are floating around in say the 32x32 format? A lot, right? Both in freebies and licensed asset packs, game rips, etc.
Now how many non-rpgmaker tiles use the 48x48, or quality/consistent artist familiar working in that size? (I'm getting the hang of it, but I know other artists have their hangups)
When you're a company and have several years between selling engines versions, and still need to generate rev from products, having a file format that's kind of proprietary sizing means there's less competition from outside creators, and more incentive for those creators to work with/for your company; the company having an established following of users and wider publishing options with markets like Steam.
Now let's say MZ let people use non-48x48 tile sizes (32, 16, etc)?...other than formatting tile sheets to work in-engine, there's probably less incentive for makers to keep buying RM-brand DLCs from the store when there's a plethora of already available content online going back yeeears.
But that's just me speculating.

Looking forward to the next update!
 
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