RPG Maker MZ, Preview #4: Event List, System Tab Options, New UI, Release Date & Price!

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DoubleX

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It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both.
Agreed, and it means that you're so good on energy and time management, and you're so passionate on RM that you can work on both.
I tried to support both VXA and MV when MV just launched, but decided to give up VXA after several weeks(except explicit requests regarding my existing VXA scripts), partially due to my around 30 hour work week part time job back then, and partially due to my lack of motivation to work on both VXA scripts and MV plugins.
So I admire those who can keep working on resources for multiple RMs, and you're certainly one of them :)
 

SJWebster

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It's frustrating that in this small community we're seemingly unable to be civil and respectful towards each other. It's not "passion", it's rude and self-centered.

In terms of a subscription model? No thanks. Photoshop went from a £1,000+ standalone annual purchase aimed at professionals to a £9.99 monthly subscription, making it easier for people to legally obtain and use it. I can pay for it all year and only spend 10% of the old price.

RPG Maker is a £61.99 one off purchase with new versions coming out every three to five years that's aimed at entry level hobbyists and solo / small team indie developers. Within a year, I'm out of pocket.

In terms of resource creation, I mainly make graphics, so with the standards for everything bar animations being exactly the same, nothing really changes for me. I'm genuinely excited about Effekseer after seeing the entries to Drifty's contest on stream.
 

TWings

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Agreed, and it means that you're so good on energy and time management, and you're so passionate on RM that you can work on both.
I tried to support both VXA and MV when MV just launched, but decided to give up VXA after several weeks(except explicit requests regarding my existing VXA scripts), partially due to my around 30 hour work week part time job back then, and partially due to my lack of motivation to work on both VXA scripts and MV plugins.
So I admire those who can keep working on resources for multiple RMs, and you're certainly one of them :)
To be fair, it's not that much more work in the case of MV / MZ.
Both beeing JS based, it's just a matter of beeing careful about the differences between the two engines, but the base is pretty much the same.
Of course, it also depends on what the plugin does (I expect stuff like battle system to be quite different).
 

Galenmereth

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To be fair, it's not that much more work in the case of MV / MZ.
Both beeing JS based, it's just a matter of beeing careful about the differences between the two engines, but the base is pretty much the same.
Of course, it also depends on what the plugin does (I expect stuff like battle system to be quite different).

That depends, really. If they've rewritten a solid port of the engine to utilize PIXI 5 and es6 class structures, there could be a pretty big difference in how you'd approach things. Just because the language is the same doesn't really mean much. In terms of finding bugs and problems, it'll be very different, for instance.
 

Chaos17

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Unity? Hah, you're comparing a complex engine with an engine that can be easy but be EVEN better, buddy. That's what you people doesn't understand. Poor Yanfly, Victor Sant, Pheonix Kagedesu, cutievirus, etc. Working hard to fill the holes that the lack of an OPTIONAL suscription model leaves on the engine, some of them even punishing their free time and health without forming part of the company itself, all done by the love of the engine. If Optional suscription model were already implemented, Degica could directly offer a job to each of these talented authors and them receive an stable salary doing what they love do.
What kind of world do you live in to believe that? No company to date has ever shared those winnings with modders :LZSjoy:
The reason is simple, it's because it's easier to rely on the free work of the fans instead of bothering to hire them. Thanks to them, companies do not need to produce content since it is produced for free by moders. And you can see this behavior even with Indies games!

You need some reality check and no I don't want Rpg Maker to adopt Adobe strategy marketing, thanks.
 
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The_Sarah

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Looks neat, definitely gonna pick it up after I've done my first VX Ace game.
 
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Wow, too many people mentioning adobe as an example, and even more expensiver and too complex engines when read the suscription word somewhere, I don't understand this, is like compare Everest size with the whole earth size.

Anyways, I learnt a lot thanks due @DoubleX posts, and I'll reply once I'm back home when I will be able to re-read many more times everything and jump with the conclusions.

And sorry, forgot the name it's on the other page (EDIT: @DeviTheHuman was you!) but yes, I'm passionate, spanish people from Spain are like that, sadly, but personally I also received so much harm from bigger companies and even in my directly personal life, more than passionate is a loop of continuous tireness of watching and suffering even myself mistakes no one seems to want to fix (I'm talking globally, not just rpg maker things, I talk about the everyday of this tiring world). I would love to have born outside this senseless country which citizens aren't even able to ****ing correctly wear a mask properly and uses it like an arm accessory or wears it below the mouth and coughs everywhere with the mask even in the hand, literally. I bid I would be a much better person if I were educated in another country, and also would be as smart as DoubleX and many other persons from this lovely community.

Well, as I said, I'll reaply later once I'm back home!
 

Dark_Ansem

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Is the damage formula syntax going to be altered so that it supports more complex operators such as { [ } ]?
 

TWings

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That depends, really. If they've rewritten a solid port of the engine to utilize PIXI 5 and es6 class structures, there could be a pretty big difference in how you'd approach things. Just because the language is the same doesn't really mean much. In terms of finding bugs and problems, it'll be very different, for instance.
Even rewritten, I doubt they've made a whole new engine from scratch.
Chances are pretty good, it's still the same underlying logic. I'd go as far as guessing that $gamexxx and $dataxxx are still around (or some version of it).

I'm not saying that any plugin would be easy to duplicate on both engines, but let's use an easy one and say for instance that you're working with Window_Base to make a custom window or whatever, it really doesnt matter much if it's now a proper ES6 class with MZ, in both cases you'll still be working with Window_Base.
 

nio kasgami

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I am getting slightly tired of the subscription-based answer, so let me put down a reason why subscription-based wouldn't work for RM.

Suppose we compare to Photoshop and Unity. They are PRODUCT creation authored tools, while RPG maker is an RPG creation authoring tool. See the differences? No?

let me explain as to why Unity and Photoshop are subscription-based is because they come with a toolset to create things without a REAL limit. (photoshop can do photo manipulation, painting, etc.) unity can do any type of game you want as long you want to take time to do programming.

Rpg maker is focussed on one and SINGLE thing: RPG, of course, you can create other stuff, but in the END, it was designed to do RPG.
it is an RPG game creation engine and not a GAME creation engine as a unity boast to be used for. (well nowadays you can create even a goddamn software using unity lol so)

RM is designed in a way that makes it to niche to work on a subscription-based model. It will just not work. They will lose more money, updating it than making a one-time payment purchase.
 

winkr7

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It says we can port MV to MZ except for plugins. Does that mean script code in a common event will port? Stuff like

var a =[1,2,3];
$gameVariables.setValue(2,a);

will port?
 

Tea's Jams

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You don't need a sprite extender plugin for that. It's a simple, repeatable pattern you can replicate via Photoshop Actionscript.

A very small percentage of people can afford that software. Likewise a very small percentage of RM devs have the time and skills to pixel art. There's definitely demand and merit for what's being requested. Also, consider, even those who can pixel art can save a ton of time by running an automatic process and then touching it up.

I would love to see a good scaling plugin for MZ.
 

Anyone

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It says we can port MV to MZ except for plugins. Does that mean script code in a common event will port? Stuff like

var a =[1,2,3];
$gameVariables.setValue(2,a);

will port?
You may have rogue instances where it works because they use the same reference and formatting but in practically most cases it won't work, because the underlying engine has changed and some of the ways the values are handled may be in an entirely different structure including different references.

Since they changed the underlying engine enough to break plugin references, there's a good chance the functions you'd script call know have different names to call them by or different parameters.

A very small percentage of people can afford that software. Likewise a very small percentage of RM devs have the time and skills to pixel art. There's definitely demand and merit for what's being requested. Also, consider, even those who can pixel art can save a ton of time by running an automatic process and then touching it up.

I would love to see a good scaling plugin for MZ.
Maybe, and it wouldn't be difficult either. Your best chance is making a request in a MZ plugin forum once the maker is out.

I can tell you with absolute certainty the default RMV isn't going to spend time or effort into creating a plugin like that, because it addresses a limited crowd and does not provide acceptable results for most people.

What the engine plugin does is that it'll define specific lines of the body and then simple move and copy paste the line of pixels.
So you'd maybe cut one under the arm at chestheight, one at belly height, one at the upper leg & one at the lower leg. It's a fairly simple process you can also do with any picture editing software, from paint to gimp.
 

Tea's Jams

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@Anyone

It's very true it can be done. But without auto features like in PS it's a looooong, tedious, repetitive process. It's always better to use auto code for those things if possible. Unfortunately GIMP has no such auto script function.

I'm not saying I want KDKW to make it, I just hope one surfaces :LZSjoy:
 
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Okay, so here's where I stand on the subject based on the following:
As I said earlier, it's not for everyone and it's really up to the developer as to what works best.



The reason the word is censored is because we can't advertise our crowdfund services (there were too many problems, we deal with a publisher etc. and it's actually more trouble than it's worth to discuss). I agree that it's heavy to do so, but otherwise the links would get through and we simply can't have that. For the purpose of context I think it's permissible, but the less mentioned about (insert crowdfund platform name) the better off we'll be.



Sounds like what Adobe did, or how much your average console multiplayer bill is per year (not including Switch, but you know). But otherwise I agree.



Which takes just as many resources to enforce, and then we'd be remiss about the RTP being encrypted by necessity, possibly not having so much customization etc. so.... no thanks.



In the very early days people actually did that - and believe it or not, this is actually what got the global release of RPG Maker to happen on an official basis, since it actually became too big to contain otherwise (and this was in the early days of the Internet when copyright laws were just beginning to catch up and Napster was still a guilty pleasure of sorts).

As for the rest of the argument I'll not repost it here, but suffice to say that I honestly believe that with the resources and stuff that would be required, all the legal requirements on the RTP etc. we'd have a very different product than we actually do. And here's one final comparison to consider: just as one can't reasonably think of creating a shared universe that connects different movies in the same way that Marvel does, there are similar things to the effect which can be said here.

Got it, and you made me think on other softwares that were more known ironically thanks due piracy, but for today, piracy harms much more than anything, and advertising became also hard, today worlds is like a bad joke, we have more resources and paths to promote our services, but still we face more difficulties than before, ADblockers is an example, then, the people paying less attention to ads in general (unless they get something in exchange like a videogame reward), or, just spend much more money on ads and then the few person that paid attention to your content will start talking about it. Yeah, the more easy and fun it is, the better will get success, and also, it can get a huge spike at the begining, then a huge drop and few rises in the curve again following with some other drops.

Yeah, I'm on PS4, and while I was another person that also hates pay a suscription for play online, thanks due few really detailing youtubers and wise persons like I found yesterday and today in this thread, I could understand the need of suscriptions. But also, learnt more why RPG Maker sticks into a one-time purchase model, I feel happy that I learnt more things of business models at the same time that I get even more headaches x_x well, someday my eyes will just be shoot off my head due opening eyes much more and my brain explode due learning so many useful things!

Anyways!!
While I do understand the concerns about the sustainability of the engine in the absence of new software every several years, and while I also feel that all of the viewpoints expressed in this thread do have some degree of merit, I feel the best way to get the best of both worlds would be to integrate an Asset Store into the engine.

Software makers get a really healthy income stream (probably enough to allow for more frequent upgrades to the engine's core functionality), game designers get everything they need at their fingertips, and content creators get the single most effective, focused marketplace around.
It's a good solution too! The less the store is splitted into several places, the more accessible is for everyone, even if the prices are exactly the same, have everything focused in one place makes things much more easier for the community keeping in mind that there are a lot of people that often purchase a thing and almost or literally never goes to a forum or even the official page.

Regarding optional suscriptions... wah, now that I learnt more about the good and the bad of include suscriptions, now I don't know what to say right now, I would require do a deep study of everything that Degica/Kadokawa may offer, and then... I don't know, because there'll be few information I will never have like the liquid availability and more things...
...I just hope that, ignoring my rants (sorry), I could give some reflexions to the staffs of the coming future, I hate not being a wise person for help you in an effective way, I just.. please, don't let RPG Maker fall obsolete anytime, do the tests you need with other softwares to get a proper studies of new strategies or anything you need, but, please, keep it alive, I seem so many great videogames dying and left so many persons behind due communication cuts, this isn't a videogame, it's an engine, so it can keep stronger at hard times like the current ones. I want to canalize all my ambitions, hopes, desires, loves, hate, everything into my own videogame. With no doubt, I'll purchase MZ, I told that I bought all RPG Maker versions, and won't stop doing so, just, get stronger! Not for me! For everyone!

Those are a few of the places you were rude to Touchfuzzy, not to mention the several places you were rude and offensive to other users. Like I said, I expect better from you going forward.

The first quote you did was a general reply for so many people that was still talking to me like I was talking to kill the one-time purchase instead of suggest a synergy of both models, and the caps weren't shouting, but highlights, in a smartphone you have to select the text to use wysiwig, plus an smaller screen, and this is too painful experience, also, I can't lie, got used of caps instead of bold text because in my office there are so many places you can't use bold letters or requires to write **things** like that to bold which slows down the tipping and makes you wasting seconds you could spend in type to another person.

I know for forums, caps equals shouting since like forever, but, for many other people, them are used for highlighting text. On the only part I was really using caps as shouting, was, precisely your first quote :p

Anyways, I'm sorry! For me is not so easy to be less stressed, I can't solve my stress with relaxing exercises, drinking relaxing infusions, taking a walk, or anything, even the hard body exercise or falling exhaust like when I was working as mason in France doesn't work on me, even zolpidem pills which are strong sleeping pills makes nothing to me, and I don't take anything with cafeine, I just drink water! I'm surprised I'm not bald, but who knows if I have something inside my head! That's why I believe I'll die young, not joking sadly D:

It can be too much to ask coming from me due how I wrote in certain posts, but please, keep patience with me, I'm not a bad guy, or a villain, I wish the best to everyone and always look for help everyone, shame I'm not a good and smart enough person to achieve it, and maybe seem more the opposite, sadly.... wished to not be like that.

I love to learn from you, the person that despite my hard words, are willing to taught me, and keeps patience instead of just delete any and every post from mine then ban me like "another worthless trash" as happened on other places, making all the time of my life spent in tipping resulting a waste. This is really a precious thing for me, and I'm happy of be between this community!

Sorry again, and @Touchfuzzy I'm sorry too with you, lost the nerves again :( I hope I didn't harm you too much.

---

My long posts ends here! I just want to purchase MZ already!! Hope to see addons in the prelaunch like MV had! Cover Art Characters and many more resources from MV were awesome! Looking forward such content in the MZ preorder too!
...And if it doesn't have any extras... :(
Well, still was going to purchase it.

Shame I can't split the purchase into twelve months like most purchases in Spain, my savings will be hurt kinda a lot, but well :(

Also, will the key work for both Steam and for download the stand-alone version?
 

GethN7

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@Touchfuzzy Had a legal question. I assume any effect not specifically made in Effeskeer (like paid DLC) remains free to use in any other software unless specified otherwise by the creator, or is this not the case.

Since this is an open-source middleware being added to the RM program, I wanted to know how that works.

Also, bit of a side question, is your username a Yoshi's Island reference?
 

Wavelength

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It says we can port MV to MZ except for plugins. Does that mean script code in a common event will port? Stuff like

var a =[1,2,3];
$gameVariables.setValue(2,a);

will port?
That's a really good question. Since certain behavior will have to be changed to accommodate the new features in MZ, I feel confident in assuming that certain script code will not port properly. However, if the data structures for most events, database entries, etc. really are similar enough that you can port those over, I feel optimistic that most kinds of things you'd place into Script commands would probably port over OK.

@Touchfuzzy, any way we could get confirmation whether very "basic" Script command structures (like changing the value of a Variable and referencing an Actor by position in the party) will be transferrable from MV to MZ? :)
 

FiercestPixel

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I just upgraded my RAM to 8GB. Cost me $36, and I'm now ready for MZ. Don't blow money on a gaming desktop unless you seriously want it.
I wish this was the case for me. I also compared my processor to the minimum required processor for MZ (the Corei3-4340) on a cpu user benchmark website and my current processor is way too slow. I was even struggling running Photoshop elements 9, haha. It's definitely time for an upgrade. I figure I might as well do a little future proofing by spending a little extra. Plus I get to understand a little more about how the hardware works by building my own.
 

DoubleX

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It says we can port MV to MZ except for plugins. Does that mean script code in a common event will port? Stuff like

var a =[1,2,3];
$gameVariables.setValue(2,a);

will port?
If it doesn't, and if I were you, I'd do something like this(or ask someone else to do this for you):
JavaScript:
const $gameVariables = {};
$gameVariables.setValue = (id, value) => $mzGameVariables.mzSetValue(id, value);
The same can apply to $gameSwitches and perhaps some other $gameXXX as well :)
 
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