RPG Maker MZ, Preview #5: TPBS, A Closer Look

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HalcyonDaze

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Not sure if it's been answered, as I've been away from the forums for about a week due to work. But will the battle systems be changeable mid-game? Like have some maps have side-view battles, and front-view for others? I was unaware of anyway to accomplish that in MV.
 

SOC

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Not sure if it's been answered, as I've been away from the forums for about a week due to work. But will the battle systems be changeable mid-game? Like have some maps have side-view battles, and front-view for others? I was unaware of anyway to accomplish that in MV.
I think this exactly was covered in one of the promotional videos for MV years ago:

 

HalcyonDaze

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I don't know how that slipped by me all of this time. I feel like a dummy lol.
 

Skyroar

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Exactly, this is the biggest flaw with it being based on turn count instead of tick based. It causes massive discrepancies depending on the speed of the character. Things like poison, regen, and even other states that wear off after awhile like protect or haste will all impact higher AGI characters differently than lower ones. If I remember correctly, Yanfly even mentioned this is why they stopped supporting ATB plugin for MV, so I really hope we can get a tick based system for MZ.
To be honest, this can be taken into account for some interesting design choices. For example, poison will not only be a good counter against high HP enemies, but against faster enemies as well. And effects like haste will barely be impacted by it, considering that they will still do their intended job, but they will have great synergy with dot damage/ healing. You'll be able to slow down an enemy so they get healed less often with their regen. Etc. It'll create new strategical opportunities.

In contrast, it's going to be hard to balance effects like protect in this new system, as it'll wear off too quickly on fast characters.

Nonetheless, considering that characters need to have 4x higher speed to have twice the number of turns than other characters, the discrepancies will likely be subtle enough to not be a big problem.
 

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To be honest, this can be taken into account for some interesting design choices. For example, poison will not only be a good counter against high HP enemies, but against faster enemies as well. And effects like haste will barely be impacted by it, considering that they will still do their intended job, but they will have great synergy with dot damage/ healing. You'll be able to slow down an enemy so they get healed less often with their regen. Etc. It'll create new strategical opportunities.

In contrast, it's going to be hard to balance effects like protect in this new system, as it'll wear off too quickly on fast characters.

Nonetheless, considering that characters need to have 4x higher speed to have twice the number of turns than other characters, the discrepancies will likely be subtle enough to not be a big problem.
It depends on how you have your dots/hots set up. What if you want standard generic dots as part of an ability that's not just "poison"? What if you don't want a poison that's % HP based? Haste/slow are still impacted by fast characters, because you will need to reapply them more often, so if using another character to do that, you're impacting their turns/resources as well. Consider this. You're a slow character fighting a fast enemy. Your dot lasts "5 turns". That dot against a fast enemy will wear off fast, and if that dot is most your damage by design, then you're going to have to reapply it far more often than if you were fighting a slow enemy. That means you're going to have to "waste turns" using that skill far more often which greatly impacts the design that wouldn't be an issue with tick based systems. If you set the duration to last longer, then that would impact slow enemies and that may not be necessarily a solution for your design choices. It is true that you can flip the argument and use the dots/hots to your advantage in those scenarios too, yes. But that does limit your design choices in ways that some designers wouldn't like, especially if they grew up playing with tick based systems.

Without rubberbanding, I could easily have a fast character act twice per a normal character's turn, without impacting the enemies' speeds. This is what I want. I also want that time to act to gradually increase over the course of the game, while still having full control over everyone's speeds, including enemies. Regardless, I understand this is just how it is for this engine, and plugins will be necessary to achieve what I specifically want. I am still very excited and thankful that we have this system in an engine that's not from 2003 lol
 

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Remember that status effects duration doesn't go off battle turn, but individual turn.

Yes, this means that something like poison will tick faster on a high agi character, but it will also expire faster.

To be honest, high AGI characters already get a huge boost as better action economy is usually the key to any "turn" based game.

Giving some boosts to slower characters with things like defense boosts lasting longer or having more time to cure them of status effects is pretty minor compared to just being able to go more often.

(also as an aside, it occurs to me if you have a protect type skill to allow one character to cover another, getting slowed might HELP you. As you can cast a defense buff on them, have them cover your character, and slow will make it longer before they go again).
 

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Well again, it depends on game balance. You can absolutely have fast characters/classes that are by no means optimal or better than slower ones, no matter how much better their action economy is. Honestly, many thief-type characters the ATB FF era kind of extenuate this. Edge from FF4, thieves from FF5, and Yuffie from FF7 are all far from optimal despite having some of the best ATB speeds, so it can definitely be balanced for utility or other methods. Again I kind of love how FF Dimensions does this, where thieves can usually act twice before a warrior, but often takes 3 or more turns to deal the same amount of damage than a warrior can, and make up for it with utility. Higher speed also lets them do other things like stealing, applying debuffs, or using items without sacrificing as much DPS (or other metrics) as other characters would. I love the depth that creates.

But anyway sorry, I just love this discussion so much because it's my favorite battle system!
 

Ossra

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@Shaz I sure hope so. I am ready for some more information!
 

Bastrophian

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Oh shoot! Yeah, its the night before spoilermas! Spill somemore MZ info! X3
 

Shaz

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Database screenies would be nice. Maybe if we all grab picket signs and chant "database" it might help? And if someone has a spare firstborn to sacrifice ...
 

Ossra

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Yeah, screenshots of a few tabs in the database would be interesting.
 

unagiootoro

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I looking forward to the RPG Maker MZ information being released every Thursday. I want to do a trial version of MZ.
 

Bastrophian

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It would be pretty awesome to get the Trial version a week or so before the release, but I doubt that will happen :< ....
 

Touchfuzzy

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There is going to be a post tonight, but it isn't going to be as big as previous ones as far as revealing MZ capabilities. We have a bunch we wanted to share, but the stuff we wanted to talk about is still in translation.

Hopefully you guys won't lynch me over just highlighting what I did :B
 

Shaz

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Hopefully you guys won't lynch me over just highlighting what I did :B
That's fine by me. Just need a weekly fix :) I'm sure someone will, though, but you'd be used to it by now ;)
 
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